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Ron Paul: Obama's 'goal' is economic collapse

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posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
... as an entity of self preservation Governments by nature look to ensure the survival and expansion of themselves.


Too true, when you look to the past you'll find many times when important legislation would languish in the house and senate for far too long while legislation containing government projects, special interests earmarks and most important of all, pay raises and improved benefits packages for government officials especially congress would be pushed forward and through.

The above has happened regardless of which party was the majority.



[edit on 24-6-2009 by Walkswithfish]




posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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i have to giggle at this sight, you have the majority, with both eyes wide open. then about the time you think all the people have it figured out, here comes that 10 percent. that same ten percent that cannot make a sentence make a bit of sense, and tries to intimidate others as they spill there filth.

gooooo ron paul as anyone that has ever been in business realizes the route we are going is into a deep crater of debt.

for the obamanizers beleiving that this country will turn around in a year, with this current economy being a service and totally dependent for china on all our products, i have ocean front property in nevada i can sell you



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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My only guess of what their thinking is :

If you are a world leading power descending into recession this is a bid to retain power. Seeing that you still link all global economies especially emerging economies, you pull them down with you, before they mature and become established.

This is the advantage of being a superpower, you can call the shots. The only issue is that the global economy is changing rapidly and China is going to be calling the shots soon enough.

Also the worse you go about bankrupting a country including your own (making sure its in a self inflicted controlled way) the quicker and painless it is to get it kick-started again. We're suffering a hangover of gluttony in spending and building debt.

For the US its an opportunity before its too late to control oil (including using military and military spending) while at the same time ween itself off the black stuff. This will ensure independence, new major industries will emerge (software / human computer interfacing / AI / renewable energy production / data & energy transmission etc etc...) and old ones that have become dominated by emerging economies will be rendered redundant (FF power stations / internal combustion engine / traditional computing / inefficient polluting manufacture of items that can be simulated...)

Kind of makes sense.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Mental Modulator,


First OFF, I know many of you recognize how proud of a man Obama is, I know this because of the constant taking the piss out of him. I recognize this myself, on a LOGICAL level, I HIGHLY doubt that this particular man, who could potentially reach any other station in life would intentionally mar his own family name and reputation... Does not make sense -
You really think Mr Obama would like his name equated with the worlds worst man made catastrophe in HISTORY? Really


First off...did you go to public school and not get over it??

Most of us out here dont care if Obama is proud or not. What we care about is does he represent the American public or someone else. This could also be said about any other President.

Harm his family name...Wow!! Public schooling standards. I dont know if it occurred to anyone out here who can think past the next sound bite..but Bill Clinton aptly demonstrated that the standards for President of the United States are not that high. George Bush after him did the same.

Some of us were thinking this as far back as Jimmy Carter...that the standards for President of the United States are not as high as most of us tend to think. So what makes Obama so special??

Ever heard of the Great Depression or the Civil War...man made catastrophes. What makes Obama so special...that he can pick his catastrophes?? Or even his "Advisers." Please think further than the next sound bite. If Obama can hand pick his catastrophies ...he is not carrying out the business of the American Public..but someone else we dont see or know about.

What makes you think Obama is actually running this show??

Concerning Socialism..

Notice something very "Unsaid" about Obama and democratic policies...even the Republicans are so brash..they too do not mention this concept..making me think they are also in on the deception.

Notice that Socialism.or Wealth redistribution ..never mentions RISK REDISTRIBUTION. The idea is always silent in that wealth redistribution can be done without risk on anyone's part.
You have to go to school to get this stupid...Republican and Democrat both.

Wealth can only be created by taking RISK. And People...individuals are the only ones taking RISK...not government. When you can create money unlimited by deficit spending...you are doing anything and everything except taking risk. No rocket material needed to see this clearly for what it is. This applies both to the Republican and Democratic parties
For they are both phoneys and liars in that they do not educate the public in this.

It is obvious to some of us that the political parties work for someone ..both of them...but not the American public.


reply to post by Southern Guardian
 



Public schooling as well???


Sure it is, because your a Pauler buddy. My last post was not concerning the opinions of Paulers over the replacement of national sales tax because Iv heard it time and time again. I was discussing how much of an untested and stupid idea it was.


Untested??? Wow!!! Did you ever take a big bite out of the apple..in public school.

Public School=television education

A public sales tax was all their was until the income tax of 1913.
Several attempts at an income tax were tried before 1913 but all were struck down by the courts because they taxed the "Source " from which the income was "Derived."

A public sales tax is not untested..it is known by those who have read some history. All we had before 1913 was a public sales tax. What on earth are you thinking??

What a public sales tax does is limit the amount the government can tax or conversely spend and thus leaving the government limited in the mischief or intrusion into the affairs of the public.

If you have trouble digesting this concept...take a close look at what is happening in the UK much faster than is happening here. By this I mean the UK government and its rampant rabid intrusion into the lives and liberties of the public.

Notice that with the Income tax of 1914 also came the Federal Reserve act...giving the government the ability to borrow on the public purse. The collateral for the deficit loans by the government ..is the income tax.
Not accidental that they passed the same year.

Any government which can outspend the public in every sector...is a government which can put its people in bondage for various government programs including the next war.

This is why Ron Paul is against the income tax, against the Federal Reserve Act...and against all these foreign wars.....and for a national sales tax as we used to have in this country. Because he knows that this puts fiscal restraints on government spending and gives more liberty and freedom to its citizens.

NO genius required to figure out this one.

Oh..and this here..


Have you seen this system in place? This system ends the income tax, replaces it with an increase by 30% on the goods and services industry, which will inevitably drive many americans (including myself) north and south to take regular trips into Canada and Mexico for their purchase to escape this tax system on goods and services loosing out for american businesses.


This is just plain emotional and dumb Southern Guardian. You do know that American business are folding left and right...yes. Folding under the income tax system currently in place..yes??? They are also leaving the country and setting up shop anywhere but America.

So I will clue you in to the 30 % hoax.

Inflation is a tax...inflation is work you do for which you get no goods and services...same result as a tax. You dont have to explain this to the American Public with fancy charts and diagrams...they simply go to the store and see if their moneys goes further than last month on the same purchases. No genius required.

Watch this again...

A tax is work we do for which we get no goods or services.

Inflation is work we do for which we get no goods or services...exactly the same result as a tax.

No genius, charts, or diagrams by phony economics gurus required.

We are already at the 30% tax level...through both inflation and the income tax. No genius required. Yet all the gurus in front of the microphones and cameras try to imply these are totally two separate things and concepts. Not so when you only have one paycheck.

I laugh whenever I see a politician including Obama going down this rabid trail..because like the King with no clothes ..I know he is naked. Same with economists. Same with news reporters trying to hide this from the public more interested in Dancing with the Stars and American Idol.

When you have a government which can borrow unlimited ..they can constantly outspend the public sector and steal everything for their programs and give aways...the public themselves soon becomes their prime competitors. It is the public that the government must control..never do they manage to control the excesses of government. NEVER!!!

Historically governments have stolen everything they can until the economy collapses...and becomes weak to outsiders/invaders.

When an economy collapses...the government usually falls. There is almost no chance that the new replacement government will be any better or more intelligent/moral than the government they replaced. Most of the time they are much worse.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 24-6-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Lennonist
 



For now, Ron Paul is too high profile. The only way to silence such a man is with deadly force. Doing that would be the worst option, seeing as nobody would believe another suicide, plane crash, or anything else. people would assume the government was responsible.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Because it will be easier for Americans to accept the Dictatorial Socialist state the PTB have in mind when most Americans won't have a job, and will see themselves not being able to feed their families.

When a person sees no hope, he/she will accept anything, and everything that person is told will "solve everything".

You see, there are millions of Americans armed, and even the Obama administration knows they cannot disarm all Americans just by implementing more draconian laws to grab our guns, because most Armed Americans won't stand for this.

So the easiest way is to hit our wallets. Destory the economy, make sure most Americans, or at least many of us don't have a job, and nowhere to turn to except to accept the Dictatorial Socialist regime TPTB have in mind.


President Obama got in office by lying, and making many young Americans believe that his "change" would be good for them. President Obama will continue making more promises and he, as well as his administration will claim that by nationalizing the Republic even more will make certain that families get food everyday, and he will promise other things which at the end he won't keep any, or most of his promises.

This has been done dozens of times in the past, and every time the people accepted the "change" believing it was for good, it just turned the countries into dictatorships.



[edit on 24-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


I see what you mean. an armed population is definitely harder to overpower but if you do it from the inside, people wanting to take care of their families, basic survival, then they will accept anything.

we've made so many little steps into this mess that i guess these latest big steps don't seem like much...until it's too late.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Lennonist
 

When the economic recovers next year, with all the conservatives complaing the recovery the result of "a cycle, not a stimulus" what will Ron Pauls excuse be? I get the feeling he will be using the same alarmist rhetoric,nothing surprising really.


What do you see that indicates an economic recovery is on the way?

I say the economy will not recover next year with the current 9.4% unemployment and 4.5% long-term unemployment. Every indication is that both figures are rising and will continue to do so. This despite any teleprompter pep talk from our media happy president. We are just entering the critical "high summer season" for every resort town in the U.S. Cut backs due to belt tightening and gas prices will cause layoffs in those resort areas the likes never seen before. College and high school students as well as teachers and others that work second jobs during the summers to make ends meet will be severely impacted. The overall number of jobs is now down 4.3% or roughly 6 million jobs. Those jobs are not coming back and tell me what sector(s) is/are expanding to fill that void? Windmills? Me thinks not.

I can only imagine how bad things would be if president Obama was not "creating and saving jobs". Do you think he is?

Will President Obama meet his goal of creating or saving 600,000 jobs in 100 days?

I predict the jobs lost in the US resorts this summer alone will more than double anything the president will create in his next 100 days. These will not be job losses for one season, these will be businesses permanently lost. Increasing permanent burdens on social welfare programs. More deficit spending. Who will pay for any jobs president Obama "creates"? Our already diminished and over taxed work force? That some perceive we are not in economic freefall is only due to the cushioning effect of the remaining savings and equity that has yet to be drained from us. But that cushion is finite and can’t grow due to interest rates.

Year to year inflation was at 3.85% for 2008. As high as that was I'd sign up for 4% for this year in a heartbeat but I doubt that even 5% inflation for this year is in the cards. Let's cram in a government run health care system before the congress goes on summer break for the coupe de grace. I predict conservatives and liberals alike will be using Paul's alarmist rhetoric by the fall. Who then will have the strength and financial capability to stand up to the naked Marxists running our government?



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Hemisphere
 


i've never been able to figure out how the jobs created/saved number is calculated. do you know? what i mean is, are jobs lost subtracted from jobs created/saved to come up with a net number? start with 100 jobs. 40 chrysler dealers laid off so 60 jobs remain. new bridge being built by stimulus bill adding 25 jobs and 25 more people won't be laid off (50 total bridge building jobs) so add that to 60 remaining from original, and you have 110, so net 10 jobs were created/saved. OR do we just forget about the 40 who lost their jobs and say that the 50 bridge building jobs are 50 jobs created/saved?

i hope you or someone can explain this to me.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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United we stand, divided we fall....



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Don't follow Ron's talks but I would hope he would be spending equal time promoting the birth certificate issue. The goal of economic collapse is pretty obvious and not much of a contribution from him.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by Hemisphere
 


i've never been able to figure out how the jobs created/saved number is calculated. do you know? what i mean is, are jobs lost subtracted from jobs created/saved to come up with a net number? start with 100 jobs. 40 chrysler dealers laid off so 60 jobs remain. new bridge being built by stimulus bill adding 25 jobs and 25 more people won't be laid off (50 total bridge building jobs) so add that to 60 remaining from original, and you have 110, so net 10 jobs were created/saved. OR do we just forget about the 40 who lost their jobs and say that the 50 bridge building jobs are 50 jobs created/saved?

i hope you or someone can explain this to me.


Very coy earlywatcher! Saves come in baseball box scores not in unemployment statistics. But you knew that as we all do. There is no logic to be found here. Yes, I'm sure Robert Gibbs can read us the formula the administration uses to calculate this but in essence the created/saved deal is simply socialist double-talk. I would imagine that similar party-line double-talk was the norm as the Soviet Union was in decline. People in the media that have to report this statistical jobs nonsense do so without question or they too will be among the unemployed. And so the lost jobs you mentioned in your question are never mentioned. Sorry I don't have the straight answer to your question but I don't believe there is one.

Our president has credibility equal to that of Professor Irwin Corey. The difference being the president doesn't make me laugh with his inane ramblings. If there is a job "saved" by bailout or government intervention it essentially makes all of us employers and has all of us paying the wages for the "saved" job. Created government jobs have the same effect. We all pay!

The "shovel ready" jobs that are mentioned are a farse too. This is not the 30's and thousands of workers with picks and shovels will not be rebuilding the nations highways and bridges. Manual labor in these projects has been minimized by mechanization. Consider too that the jobs created by Roosevelt never got us out of the depression, WWII did. That is perhaps the saddest reality in American history. Contractors in the same realm as a Halliburton will be getting the stimulus funds allocated for these "shovel ready" projects. It's just another front for stealing the future wealth of this nation. We might have a new administration but the same shenanigans have and will continue. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


i can't believe how blind some people are. no wonder the south gets a bad name.
sorry to be so flip,but RP has the same opinions as peter schiff,one of the leading economists in the world. but as usual,you know better.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 08:45 PM
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I had to chuckle to myself when first I watched this video and speech by the British Minister Daniel Hannan.

www.youtube.com...

I bring this video up because it is quite obvious that this is the direction someone wants to take the US Economy. I would venture to state that the same people who have bankrupted England are working to bankrupt the USA and for the exact same reasons.

Notice the portion of this video where Daniel Hannan speaks of creating so many public sector jobs ..when in fact so many more private sector jobs have gone down the crapper than public sector jobs can keep the public employed.
Sound familiar. Keep an eye on this one as it transpires.

This is a downward spiral of which Minister Daniel Hannan is speaking. It is going to happen here and people are begining to sense this...all the political talk is just that ..political talk.

Lots of people in the UK are out of work. It is getting so bad that even a large number of pubs are closing down. Pubs over a hundred years olde are shutting down....going out of buisness.

Orangetom





[edit on 24-6-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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How can 600,000 jobs be saved when there have been a trend of 500,000 plus jobs being lost EVERY MONTH.

As some other members were saying, this is nothing more than double-talk trying to lure people into a state of complacecy making them believe "600,000 jobs will be saved" when in fact we have been losing jobs at a rate of 500,000 + a month.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
So please fill me in here what im missing again. Are your saying his not the only one advocating national sales tax? Because thats not what I said at all. Clearly the man however is on the frontline advocating it.

Sure it is, because your a Pauler buddy. My last post was not concerning the opinions of Paulers over the replacement of national sales tax because Iv heard it time and time again. I was discussing howmuch of an untested and stupid idea it was.


He isn't advocating it, he said it could replace the income tax. It isn't on his platform at all. This is from his presidential platform, and there is nothing there on his views on taxation other than lowering taxes and getting rid of the IRS.



Taxes and Budget issues: Paul pledges to immediately work to phase out the Internal Revenue Service and eliminate the federal income tax and most cabinet departments. Supports lowering taxes to create jobs and allow taxpayers to make decisions for themselves. Believes the Federal Reserve fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply and supports its elimination. Has expressed concern that the American economy is in the hands of foreign governments because their central banks finance America’s spending. He feels that we need to stop private banks, wasteful agencies and lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments from collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our budget.


And I do agree, a national sales tax is a stupid idea.


Hows that? Do you know? Have you seen this system in place? This system ends the income tax, replaces it with an increase by 30% on the goods and services industry, which will inevitably drive many americans (including myself) north and south to take regular trips into Canada and Mexico for their purchase to escape this tax system on goods and services loosing out for american businesses. Nobody has taken this into account. Further more the system will cause a headache for house and viechle buyers, the nature of the goods being purchase. As much as not having to pay income tax seems "nice", that house deposite that has just gone $10,000 more will hold back folks for saving. By the least it wont make a difference in comparison to income tax. Folks here cite the corporate taxes, the weekly tax costs of businsses, but what folks again seem to neglect is that these taxes are added into the prices of the goods and services in anycase. That cost will just be replaced by pay increases for employees.

You have not seen system place, none of the Paulers have, all I hear is talk, as usual.


I do not know for sure how much revenue it would rake in. But you can imagine the kinds of loot it would generate. Probably more than the 2.5 or so trillion dollars the income tax brings in now.


Yes and you got my analysis on the result of that. The only governments that will be gaining from this are the Mexican and Canadian governments, in addition the money gained from not having to pay income taxes by employees will just get sucked into the increase in prices for products and services so in reality nobody gains anything. Its another stupid pyramid scheme type of a system.
[edit on 24-6-2009 by Southern Guardian]


And how will the Americans who don't live near the border avoid this tax in their day to day purchases? Let alone the fact that most people wouldn't want the trouble of crossing a border everytime they get groceries and other day to day things like gas?



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Yes I too have been trying to figure out why the elite are destroying their cushy life styles. The reason I've come up with is that the true shadow government wants to dwindle down a lot of the super rich elite. It's a redistribution of power. They want less players and more control.

Also I question whether the shadow government even truly cares about money.
If they control all the resources, advanced technologies, and weapons, money is the last thing they would care about. The money is used to control us.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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he does he really does. in my city they are adding security cameras every where a and repainting stuff like road paint white zones and white lines and such. they just painted those 2 years ago. and they r repainting the roads that r not even cracked r still new..... honestly man. also i no a lot of cops. they r getting random bonuses. and they just spent a lot on building these fema camps and how much do U think Big brother costs? all that tech and stuff. and at my high school they just put MORE cameras they HAD us on camera 24\7 on 2 angles now they have small hidden ones and we r on 4 angles now. really 4 angles? all those cameras cost A LOT and and the labor and wiring and extra screens to c wat the new cameras catch u on. we HAD 7 or so screens on the security room. now it looks like the matrix 2 then neo sees the articetch like 1 wall full of screens and another half wall of screens. a good 17 screens. all screens where AL LEAST 150. plus electricity and every thing. and the same thing is going on every where. they r burning all of the money we got saved and out budget.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by Vinveezy
 


what on earth do they expect to SEE? i didn't realize it had gotten so bad in the schools. i can't imagine what that's all about. same is happening in many cities. all sorts of cameras at stoplights and on buildings. what do they expect to see? the economic collapse in slow motion? that was supposed to be a joke.

you have a really good point. this surveillance equipment costs plenty, and the money to keep it running costs, so why is is much being spent. so many weird things are happening.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by Teeky
reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Yes I too have been trying to figure out why the elite are destroying their cushy life styles. The reason I've come up with is that the true shadow government wants to dwindle down a lot of the super rich elite. It's a redistribution of power. They want less players and more control.

Also I question whether the shadow government even truly cares about money.
If they control all the resources, advanced technologies, and weapons, money is the last thing they would care about. The money is used to control us.


Bingo!!! I think you are dead on there. They don't care about money, we care about money because we have to. Our life styles dictate we make money and not food, clothing, shelter, etc. The controllers have used the industrial revolution against us from the start but we are only now becoming aware. Why is that? I'm thinking that leisure time coupled with the availability of information along with cross polination of theories like we do here on ATS has been the breakthrough point.

Even with the current awakening to our plight we might be beyond challenging the controllers and changing course. This current socialist push that further drains our pseudo-independent resources (money, time, strength) is taking a toll. How will we be able to resist when as you say "they control all the resources"?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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In light of the new election and current economic woes, I thought this might be an interesting thread to revisit.



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