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Fmr. prince: Security forces join protesters in the streets

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posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Fmr. prince: Security forces join protesters in the streets


amfix.blogs.cnn.com

John Roberts - Anchor, CNN's American Morning
Filed under: Iran

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will be sworn in for a second term sometime between July 26 and August 19, state-run media reported Tuesday. Many Iranians who have disputed the official outcome of the June 12 vote have taken to the streets to protest the results.

Reza Pahlavi, the former crown prince of Iran, says there are reports some security forces have been joining protesters in the streets of Tehran. Pahlavi’s father was the shah of Iran who was deposed in the Iranian Revolution of 1979. He spoke to John Robe
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Fighting tears, shah's son calls crisis a 'moment of truth'




posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Developments are moving at a brisk pace regarding the situation in Iran and after posting a tread yesterday regarding the Prince’s ‘coming out’ speech to the prestigious Press Club of Washington D.C. and it’s possible significance today’s developments seem to have enough significance to warrant a separate thread regarding them.

Not only is the former Shah of Iran’s son claiming to have an intelligence apparatus inside of Iran that is providing him with information, but he is also clearly positioning himself now publicly as a spokesman defacto for the opposition movements inside of Iran and the premier champion of the democratic process in Iran.

The countless and myriad atrocities and human rights violations that led to his father’s ousting from power by a similar student movement of primarily youthful unemployed dissidents as the ones leading the protests today in Iran are being completely overlooked and whitewashed by the main stream media.

Bloggers posting on CNN’s website in regards to the article are calling for a return of the Shah’s son to Iran as the only person capable of picking up the shattered pieces of the theocracy and instilling a democratic process in Iran despite the reality that there is nothing at all democratic about a monarchy.

Many people speculated yesterday in response to my thread regarding the Prince’s debut at the Washington Press Club that this is shaping up more and more to look like a repeat of Operation Ajax, the CIA Coup D’ Etat that brought the Shah to power in Iran in 1953.

Today’s developments make that look even more likely and clearly there is a concerted effort to rehabilitate the Shah’s legacy, introduce his son into the political turmoil in Iran in as large a capacity as can possibly be orchestrated and manipulated.


amfix.blogs.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Just like the Democrats opposed Bush and his wars and spending, and bailouts, blah blah.... They promised to NOT be Bush... That was all they needed to do, because people were upset.

I think it's scary that the Iranians are fighting to be heard, and one person (possibly evil) steps out in front and claims to be the mascott of the movement.


You are so right, that out of chaos, comes something worse. I feel and fear for the Iranian people. I hope they get what they are fighting for.

I hope they know that the world is watching them, AND we have the deepest respect for them, no matter what our views are.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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John Roberts: The Guardian Council has ruled that the election results will stand and if there were irregularities they are not enough to swing the outcome of the election. There will be no new elections. What do you expect the reaction on the ground will be?

Reza Pahlavi: As we have all monitored the evolution of the situation, the supreme leader who has always been the final decider has drawn pretty much the line in the sand last Friday. And as such, I think the campaign that we have seen is now moving towards the direction of defiance and is going to be a resistance that will have to be sustained if indeed there’s any hope for democracy in my homeland one day.

Roberts: There’s debate as well over how much support the United States should give the protesters and the reform movement there in Iran. The White House is worried that coming out too strong in support could do more harm than good. What do you think?

Pahlavi: Well John, this is beyond a camp or another. This is not a question of election results anymore. This has become a defiance against a regime that has denied every right to its citizenry. When the chants on the streets in Tehran and other major cities in Iran and across the country are turning to “Death to Khamenei,” I don’t think it could get as clear as that back home. The regime is now under question. The legitimacy is lost. The legitimacy now stands with the people. But there are also matters of ethics and moral responsibility, if I may say also. Something that the regime is trying to create [is] confusion between what could be considered as interference as opposed to standing for human rights and justice.



Source CNN's American Morning

There is no doubt about this being a public reintroduction to America of the Peacock Throne, the Shah’s legacy in Iran and giving the Pahlavi family a political and public platform to make it’s case.

The Shah’s rule was never about democracy or involved any kind of democracy and was brutal and repressive enough to have caused the people of Iran to turn to the Ayatollahs for spiritual and political guidance and a theocratic form of government.

To put this into proper perspective it would be like announcing that Joseph Stalin’s daughter was the ideal person to help Russia with hiccups in their ‘democratic’ system of government, by way of first legitimizing Stalin’s rule to qualify her statements and positions as being pertinent, insightful and helpful.

The News accounts coming out of Iran despite the raw emotions they evoke from many people who have been taught to distrust the Iranian regime, Islam and Muslims in general do not up in the pictures coming out of Iran which really don’t paint what the captions tagged on them say, or the political rhetoric coming out of Iran which does not really speak to the fact that the protest is over which candidate is best suited to lift the Iranian nation out of it’s economic morass and not a social morass.

This is one more very strong piece of evidence showing a hidden agenda here on the part of the West to remove the Theocracy in Iran and orchestrate events on the ground there and public perception here to return the pro-west Peacock Throne to power in Iran.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Nope, I don't believe it at all. Your sources are bogus man. No chance at all any of it is true. There, how's that for an opinion?



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by LostNemesis
Just like the Democrats opposed Bush and his wars and spending, and bailouts, blah blah.... They promised to NOT be Bush... That was all they needed to do, because people were upset.

I think it's scary that the Iranians are fighting to be heard, and one person (possibly evil) steps out in front and claims to be the mascott of the movement.


You are so right, that out of chaos, comes something worse. I feel and fear for the Iranian people. I hope they get what they are fighting for.

I hope they know that the world is watching them, AND we have the deepest respect for them, no matter what our views are.


I feel for the people of Iran too, they are a resilliant warm hearted and passionate people who are worthy of our respect.

Yet as emotions run high they like anyone else being ruled by their emotions risk being manipulated by those who can adroitely use them against them.

I fear there is something very sinister in the works here that will not bode well for the Iranian people or us here in America in the long run or even the short run.

Thanks for your post and posting that kind comment to my profile!



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I feel his (err? Her?) sources are as good as anyone's, right now. Everything is bogus when it comes to Iran. I mean, the place is in chaos right now. The government is intentionally trying to keep the rest of the world from knowing what is going on.

All we really have to go on at this point, is what BBC sneaks into the internet, what real Iranian bloggers post... AND what the disinfo bloggers post.

Read it all, and think about it... Weed out whatever you feel necessary. Right now it's tough to know what is going on ANYWHERE, much less an entire country that is in chaos.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Nope, I don't believe it at all. Your sources are bogus man. No chance at all any of it is true. There, how's that for an opinion?


Friend the questionable sources that you are passionately advocating your cause with aren't 'your' sources.

They are simply sources of information that appeal to your passions.

I don't think you mean evil or harm by sounding that alarm over such stories being out there.

I don't though think you are critically considering the veracity of the reports or the sources though before committing yourself to a cause that might end up being more detrimental to all considered than it is beneficial.

I would ask you respectfully not to take my challenge of them as a personal afront to you.

Since in reality all I am trying to do is to caution you and others to not allow yourselves to be easily manipulated by stories that clearly have more of an emotional appeal to them, than any factual presentation of the facts that the appeal is being based upon.

That's just a critical, scholarly, common sense approach to information.

Unlike third party unverified snippets ripped from blogs and political party web sites this is an actual documented interview witnessed by millions of people with a surviving and accessible written and video record of it.

It sure would be odd that you could question that kind of sourcing and not question the sourcing for the topics that have intellectually and emotionally appealed to you?

Seriously you aren't failing to see my points in that regard and suggesting that they have no validity at all whatsoever are you?

Or that I am concerned people are being manipulated in a calculated way by such emotional appeals devoid of any substantiating documented evidence?



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by LostNemesis
reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I feel his (err? Her?) sources are as good as anyone's, right now. Everything is bogus when it comes to Iran. I mean, the place is in chaos right now. The government is intentionally trying to keep the rest of the world from knowing what is going on.

All we really have to go on at this point, is what BBC sneaks into the internet, what real Iranian bloggers post... AND what the disinfo bloggers post.

Read it all, and think about it... Weed out whatever you feel necessary. Right now it's tough to know what is going on ANYWHERE, much less an entire country that is in chaos.


This is a very common sense approach that I think everyone would benefit from following.

Take it all in, sort it all out, look for the holes and inconsistencies in what's being presented, try to make the best sense of it you can and then respond versus react to it.

Clearly what we see here in the Prince being shuffled out is a 'solution' for those who want some kind of 'reaction' for the emotional state that the propoganda has driven them in to.

Hey this will sovle everything and the fact that they have shuffled him out, and are increasing and broadening his vissibility and providing forums where his political supporters can point to him as a solution to a problem that is being largely manufactured and highly exagerated shows a reason just why such emotional appeals are being made through poorly sourced and poorly substantiated stories coming out of Iran through a hodgepodge of dubius avenues that allow almost anyone, anywhere in the world to claim they themselves are such a source and actually in Tehran and actually witnessing these things when they aren't.

Some of the stories being put out there by "Iranians" are word for word retellings of what some people were saying about the "G-20 police actions in London"...Girl to Security Officer: "You want to hit me don't you?" Security Officer: "Yes".

Time normally sorts all these things out, but can't when events are being driven with an emotional appeal by those driving the agenda aimed at those they want to enlist in the agenda.

There is no reason to do that. Not in my humble oppinion. Thanks for displaying some real compassion and common sense.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Even if forces were trying to bring the former prince to power how could they succeed?He would never be accepted by the Iranian people.In fact i dont think he would make it from the airport alive.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by AgentX09
Even if forces were trying to bring the former prince to power how could they succeed?He would never be accepted by the Iranian people.In fact i dont think he would make it from the airport alive.


The same way they installed his father, through violence and deception and brute armed force.

What you and many people might be missing right now in Iran is there are 3 opposition candidates and two other mullahs that would like to be Surpreme Leader and narrowly lost when Khoemeni was appointed but the Ruling Council.

The Supreme Leader is appointed by a vote from a council, the President is elected by popular vote of the people.

All the different parties and every process is now being tainted by allegations, and cross allegations made by every party to the process to the point that almost every existing party has to limp forward with tarnished or no credibility.

That creates a perfect situation and condition to introduce a fresh unnafected party like the Shah's son, who hasn't been tainted by the current process because he isn't a party to the current process, as an untainted and unbiased solution to the problem.

If Western Intelligence Agencies can keep the protests fired up long enough soon you will have shops closed for extended periods, banks closed for an extended period, more and more violence and more and more people desperate for a solution, any solution to end it.

If it is orchestrated right, the people themselves will eventually 'beg' for the Shah's son to step in to return life to some semblance of normalcy.

That's how these things work.

That's how they pull them off.

That is what appears to also be happening coincidentally!



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Roberts: What do you think the White House should do? What should the White House be saying right now?

Pahlavi: I think my compatriots expect, especially from the President of the United States… I mean, after all, America has been perceived by many around the world as the flag bearer of freedom. And for its light to be the faintest in terms of advocating liberty would be a bit odd. My compatriots understand the sensitivity and the shrewdness of the president and the administration here in terms of not in fact giving an excuse to the regime. And we applaud that and we appreciate that.

However, as I said earlier, it is important for people to feel that nobody shies away when it comes to the matter of defending people’s sovereign rights to self-determination and free speech. And I don’t think on that account this regime has anything to say about that, not only vis-à-vis the U.S. president but any other person, who after all don’t only represent themselves but their respective nations. And I have never seen in the past 30 years as an Iranian so much solidarity from the average man and woman on the streets of so many countries around the world for our cause.




Source CNN

It's very telling how the Prince refers to what is going on in Iran as "our" cause.

The intital protests were about alledged vote rigging in favor of a candidate whose economic platform was unfavored by the largely unemployed youth of Iran looking for concrete economic improvements and opportunities.

After a solid week of accusations and counter accusations coming from 4 different political camps inside of Iran eaching looking to gain something and being branded and portratyed by the Western Media as a social unrest and not an economic one it is now the Prince's cause?

Ok! Sounds like a whole lot of lies to me!



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Roberts: So Mr. Pahlavi, you’re saying that the security forces are out there cracking people’s .s one moment but then they’re going home, getting changed and joining the demonstrators? It’s an extraordinary claim. Where’s the proof of that?

Pahlavi: Well John, these are the reports that I have been receiving, not just last week alone, but this has been going on for quite a while. Understand one thing, it’s not that complicated to understand. Most of the more senior members of the Revolutionary Guard, and I’m not talking about that section which is committed to the regime and benefit from it. I’m not saying everybody’s against the regime. Of course not. But a great number of these Revolutionary Guards – they were my age at the time of the revolution, okay? They went to the war front. They fought a war against an invading enemy in the case of the Iran-Iraq war.

They gave their lives to protect our homeland and our people. They believed in the message of the revolution as everybody was dreaming for betterment of the situation. But when it comes to a point where you treat your own people like this, there are many – there are many among the security forces that say this is not what we wanted. This is not what it was all about. We cannot stand for this anymore. So you can imagine that it becomes a choice between turning the guns on people who could be your own relatives as opposed to following instructions. It’s a matter of time before security forces of any regime that is totalitarian or repressive have a moment of conscience, which has already occurred.



Very interesting that a man whose father was burned in efigy countless times has been receiving reports from inside the Republican Gaurd for 'Quite some time'.

I love how these kinds of people so subtly expose themselves and their agendas and motives in ways that if you aren't paying real close attention and listening to and looking at what they say, you would never catch what it is they are really saying!



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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This is stupid, though he has the right to speak his mind, he does nothing but harm the movement.

The Iranian people like all people of the world can be naive and sheep like but they are not retarded enough to have this clown be reinstated.

This movement when you see the people in street is about mousavi and reform (that what they chant), not about replacing one piece of garbage with another piece of garbage.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Desolate Cancer
This is stupid, though he has the right to speak his mind, he does nothing but harm the movement.

The Iranian people like all people of the world can be naive and sheep like but they are not retarded enough to have this clown be reinstated.

This movement when you see the people in street is about mousavi and reform (that what they chant), not about replacing one piece of garbage with another piece of garbage.



Stupid indeed! The Shah's son certainly can't provide them what they wanted in Mousavi which is the economic reform and jobs that Ahmadenihad failed to deliver.

Mousavi is an economic socialist who promised the largely unemployed youth of the nation better economic prospects not social reform.

They really aren't calling for the end of the theocracy, just jobs and economic prospects.

The Western Media has spun it to be about social and political reform for the sake of agenda's like those of the Crown Prince's.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I disagree, they actually do want social reform but dont rish speaking it openly since that will be a direct challenge to the whole theocratic system and then even the moderates would be against them since that would mean that the whole power structure would be changed.

Its a step by step process first place the moderates and get economic reforms then go after an overhaul of the system.

So yes though you are right about the message most are pushing for is opening of relation with rest of the world and economic reform there is that underlying desire for a different form of government.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by Desolate Cancer
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I disagree, they actually do want social reform but dont rish speaking it openly since that will be a direct challenge to the whole theocratic system and then even the moderates would be against them since that would mean that the whole power structure would be changed.

Its a step by step process first place the moderates and get economic reforms then go after an overhaul of the system.

So yes though you are right about the message most are pushing for is opening of relation with rest of the world and economic reform there is that underlying desire for a different form of government.


I don't disagree that many Iranians would like social reform. Many Americans and citizens of Canada and the United Kingdom would like social reform too.

Most of us just like the citizens in Iran just want better job and income opportunities first and foremost to feed our families.

We like most Iranians have learned to live with government infringements on our personal liberties and rights and just make due as best we can with laws and procedures and policies many if not most of us don't see eye to eye with.

Our political process here in the United States is much better than most countries but still we elect politicians and hand them blank checks and we don't often always like or agree or get to put any imput into what they write on those blank checks and for what.

At the end of the day what most Americans have proved is if we have an SUV in our driveways a full tank of gas, and plenty of consumer items in the house and food on the table we are willing to overlook and put up with a lot of foolishness.

What the Iranians are really demonstrating is that when you don't have those luxuries and then don't even have the basic necessities that people will in fact take to the streets.

It is probably even harder to gauge in Iran what percentage of people want social reform than it is here in the United States, not because Iranians aren't free to protest, obviously they are and have been in huge numbers over something.

Rather instead because it's the squeeky wheel that gets the grease or at least the attention and it's hard to tell what the people who are at home staying silent really want or think.

I do not honestly believe the majority in Iran want social reform because the candidate who they are championing Mousavi was not calling for social but economic reform and thats a fact.

There is a whole council of ruling Mullahs with just one as the supreme leader, and while it appears some are calling for death to Koehmani is that because he is siding with the wrong candidate in their oppinion and won't give them a new election or are they actually calling for death to the theocracy, because there are lots of other Mullahs on the council that elected Koehmani who are in fact jockying for his job right now because of these political events.

It truly is not clear what percentage of people in Iran long for social reform but it truly is clear for those who were studying the issues preelection that Mousavi's candidacy was based on economic and not social reform.

There are a lot of reasons why Western Intelligence Agencies and Western Governments and Western Media outlets would prefer to have us here in the west imagining it is all about social and not economic reform that are fairly obvious when you think about them.

At the end of the day the greatest lesson that the Media and Government might be truly be conspiring to obscure in all it's twisted accounts is that people even in totaltarian societies will riot when economic conditions degrade to a certain level.

That's a message our governments can't afford to broadcast as we face our own continued and worsening financial crisis, and that's why I caution people to take everything they hear with a grain of salt and keep looking for the truth of what's going on versus just what makes them emotionally react in angry and feel good ways.

Call me a fool, but hey, it's better than being a fool!




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