Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the insight, Intelgurl, Aerospaceweb, and others.

My initial impression - plasma stealth may hide you from radar, but it surely ruins your IR signature.

Second impression - a flying tesla coil... now there's something that the Berumuda Triangle folks could really get worked up about.

Originally posted by aerospaceweb

Originally posted by machinegunjordan
thank you aerospaceweb, my next question is how is plasma created .

Plasma is defined as a highly ionized fluid. It is usually created under very high temperatures. When an atom reaches very high temperatures, its electrons are excited to a high energy state and escape the attraction of is nucleus. Since the electrical charges are no longer balanced, the substance becomes full of these ioized particles. It takes a great deal of energy to heat up a substance to the point that the electrons are stipped off to create these highly ionized particles. Some examples of processes that create plasma include the interior of the sun, the core of a nuclear weapon when it detonates, the air surrounding a spacecraft during atmospheric reentry, or the air in the immediate vicinity of a bolt of lightning.

...or the ionised gases glowing in your overhead fluorescent, the flame when you light a match, the gaseous components of nebulae. Plasma can exist in many temperatures at many different densities, right across the log scale.

Originally posted by intelgurl
The plasma is apparently being generated in front of the aircraft...
Current experiments covering this science in Russia seem to be using a device that may include a tesla coil to generate little streamers of lightning that propagate ahead of the aircraft, the remnants are blown back past the aircraft in the airflow. It is this "shroud" that not only gives the Russians their claimed stealth but also holds promise for reducing the friction in the atmosphere for hypersonic vehicles in the future.
[Edited on 7-5-2004 by intelgurl]

So a ground/airborne giant tesla could theoretically soot down a plasma aircraft just because of the attraction of the electromagnetics

Hmm, good point ronii, never thought of that

Originally posted by aerospaceweb
Oh yeah, the good old flying triangle guy. I've checked out his site before. As far as I can tell, the Northrop papers only dealt with using electromagnetics to reduce drag and said nothing directly related to stealth technology. I've never heard of the papers being suppressed, but I suppose it's easy enough to try looking for them. AIAA papers are usually pretty easy to find through research libraries.

In this particular case the validity of the paper is not diminished by how ever tarnished you may find the Naudin web site.

The paper is quite real, and available from AIAA but it is not accessible for reading on the web.

I included the Naudin web site simply because it had the most information available on the internet for the paper in question without the layman forking over $25 for the PDF.

Nick Cook of JDW (I'm sure you have some colorful opinions of him) among others has stated that the paper was initially supressed and it was only in the early 1990's that it was again made available for public consumption.

I was actually hoping you had some familiarity with this paper or at least any history that might be associated with it - thereby confirming or debunking Cook's assertions.




[Edited on 10-5-2004 by intelgurl]

Originally posted by intelgurl
In this particular case the validity of the paper is not diminished by how ever tarnished you may find the Naudin web site.

Nick Cook of JDW (I'm sure you have some colorful opinions of him) among others has stated that the paper was initially supressed and it was only in the early 1990's that it was again made available for public consumption.

I was actually hoping you had some familiarity with this paper or at least any history that might be associated with it - thereby confirming or debunking Cook's assertions.
[Edited on 10-5-2004 by intelgurl]

I wasn't intending to cast any aspersions on the Naudin fellow's site. In fact, I think it's kind of cool! I'd consider building one of these flying triangles myself if I wasn't convinced I'd electrocute myself in the process. I don't know how practical the idea is considering that the power source he needs to make it work is several orders of magnitude heavier than the vehicle itself, but that could change if we ever manage to develop very lightweight high-voltage power sources.

But to answer your question, I've never heard of any suppression of the paper. That doesn't mean there wasn't any, but I'm not familiar enough with it to say for certain. What I do know of it is that the emphasis was on methods of reducing drag. Perhaps reducing RCS was an additional benefit, but I'm not aware that the authors spoke of it directly. I'd be somewhat surprised if they knew anything about RCS since it's not something engineers of that day typically thought about.

plasma stealth gives some weird extra phenomenons
and ofcourse it is difficult to control,maintain and direct.

is that you can use it on your obviously non-stealthy export fighters and bamboozle customers into thinking they are getting something almost as good as the Real Thing.


Yes it may work. But will it work in the rain? What about during hard maneuvering?

Might not a very high power electromagnetic generator be detectable in its own way as well?

Usually charging the atmosphere to make it a better conductor might make it a better reflector of radio waves.

I think it's more interesting perhaps as a means of changing free-flight aerodynamics, possibly to increase cruising fuel efficiency. That's a big component of military capability.

But really it is probably alot of pre-emptive marketing to prevent the bottom from falling out of sales once the JSF goes to exportable status.

I put "plasma stealth" in the same category as the myserious and elusive Russian "red mercury" technology.

Smells alot like something a business development branch would cook up based upon 30 year old research in nebulous area to boost sales in a lagging economy....

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
plasma stealth is cool. stupid rushins will never get that because it is too cool for them. we americkans already have this plasma stealth stuff and use it all the time. you just don't see it

*

[Edited on 5/4/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Maybe I should break the news to you!

Russians already HAVE plasma stealth.

Also drop that attitude because for your info we are NOT commies and we can do the SAME things as US.

We Russians are not cool enough to have plasma stealth?

Damn I didnt know you have to be cool to have technology.

Also please show me where US uses plasma stealth?



Just read in "AeroKosmichekie Novosti"
- Aerospace News:

Mig-29SMT is equiped with plasma stealth system. It
was already tested in RuAF (probably that first
machine upgraded recently).

MOSCOW, Jan 4, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia has developed new technology which will allow military planes to completely escape radar and other tracking systems, researchers were quoted by Itar-Tass Wednesday as saying.

The technology consists of a plasma field capable of absorbing the electromagnetic waves emitted by enemy tracking systems, sending back false signals on the plane's speed and position, the Keldysh research center sources said.

The nascent Russian system would eclipse the finest of US stealth technology, according to the report.

Russia's new fifth-generation MIG fighter planes will be equipped with the new technology, the researchers said.

So Russians are not cool enough for this tech?

How about US?

Out,
Russian

I'm still somewhat dubious about this actually being employed upon active aircraft in a fasion that has it running for a long time. To a large extent this sounds a lot like the rail guns and lasers debate, the technology is there for everything but the power. Now I don't think this is as bad as rail guns and laser so we may be able to pull off the power requirements. However in the interum I think it would still be and effective counter-measure to hit when you go for the hi-G turn to lose a radar homing missile. If this technology is available in a way that has it running 24/7 then the Russians have made a very impressive counter U.S. stealth technology. Also I don't think the initial employment of this technology would cover the entire aircraft. I could see the plasma generators on the leading edge of the wings and behind the cockpit and air intakes. This would hide most of the aircraft without screwing with the engien and obscuring the view of the pilot(as I would think plasma would do) also if you place your own antennas and radar forward you could see them without them seeing you. Also from what I've seen making the front end of a plane have a low RCS is much easier then the rest of the plane.

plasma stealth would make a plane glow like a giant light bulb and would also be able to be picked up by a more advanced form of radar

Originally posted by Pyros
Smells alot like something a business development branch would cook up based upon 30 year old research in nebulous area to boost sales in a lagging economy....

Perhaps. P.T. Barnum was not a poor man, and in most cases, money equals power.