Would our military personnel honor the Constitution or just follow orders?, page 5

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reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:52 PM by dooper

Those machines need controllers. They can only see what the lens sees. They are largely untested in combat with the exception being the aircraft drones. They are largely successful in open, deforested terrain.

They will be of limited use in many other areas of the world.

For the little tracked vehicle with the weapons mounted on board, vulnerabilities would include the lenses, antennas, and tracks. No lens, no see. No antenna, no see. No tracks, no go. And I'm really curious how fire-proof they are. That ammunition starts cooking off . . .

Oh. I wonder how good it is at driving over a deadfall hole? If it crashes through, will soldiers come to pull it out? And won't that leave them vulnerable to a well-placed shot, or remotely detonated mine?

What if some jerk does just that, and using a deadfall weight, flip the thing over as it passes over a cable? Can it flip itself back over? Or is it now vulnerable?

The little vertical hover craft? Ever seen a harpoon used? Shot straight up? You can bring down a full-sized helicopter with one of those, and just how hard will it be to bring down one of these smaller craft? A fiberglass javelin? An arrow with lightweight monofilament will really foul up a rotary aircraft.

Nice toys, some uses of course, but they aren't mature technologies.

Our loss in Viet Nam was caused by whiz kids who relied on too many bells and whistles, too much reliance on technology, and forgot all about blistering, intuitive leadership.

The technology will only enhance knowing, intuitive leadership. Not replace it.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:02 AM by Hastobemoretolife

reply to post by wonderworld

They are working on that kind of stuff. But there are mad scientist working on EMP's and the likes. I'm trying to find the video of the guy that built one and set off TNT from 25 yards away.

Of course the thread you read came from DARPA. They have 50 crazy ideas and only 1 that actually comes to fruition.

_____

All these weapons are propaganda, very few are even deployed some are still in development. And they have very very few of them. They let things like this leak out to scare people and keep them inline. A well trained sniper with a Barret 82A1 could stay out of its kill range and take out the optics or register the gun inoperable.

Also the last thing they are going to do is use rockets and missiles, they will use biological warfare before that.

It's all about the tactics.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:05 AM by Dallas87

Hmmm I'm in the navy and they tell you pretty much what the marine said, never follow these three orders

1.illegal
2.unethical.
3.immoral

Think about it civilian or not hey I order you to go shoot those kids in the head and throw it in the river I don't think your gunna do it. And umm I don't think any american civilian would even try to go against our military it goes both ways brother regardless of orders were all american we don't attack each other its all three of those three things ↑

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:12 AM by glock19

Originally posted by visible_villain

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by wonderworld

They are just machines, they don't think. They are also programmed by humans. besides a drone isn't going to do them much good with people hiding in heavily dense woods.

The fully armed robot looks scary, but once again it's still a machine. If it is autonomous it can only do certain things. Sure they are definitely lethal, but nothing that can't be defeated.

You are in way over your head, my friend !

In this case, ignorance is definately bliss !

You're ignorant. These things are all operated by remote.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:16 AM by CBS01

reply to post by wonderworld

wonderworld:
There's been so much "discussion" here back and forth between several members lately that I can no longer tell if someone is talking to me (OP) or someone else unless the message is addressed to "CBS01"!! If your question about "why do you want to know" is intended for me, the OP, I have one simple answer.

I'm just trying to determine if the military is on the side of the people, our country, our future, and members of "Team USA". Or, if they are members of "Team NWO" and only looking out for themselves. I promise you, I have no hidden agendas and even if I were ever asked to to do anything for any of those S.O.B.'s, I'd tell them to G.F.Y. (GFY = go f yourself).

Peace,
CBS

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:19 AM by Hastobemoretolife

Look at this website.

I'm not promoting the website, but I can almost guarantee you for every crazy thing the military has there is something that will beat it. There are a bunch of mad scientist in the world with crazy crazy stuff that works.

It's also like Dooper said too though, people rely to much on technology. Just read his comment at the top of this page he says it better than I can.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:21 AM by glock19

OP, relax dude we're on the same side.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:52 AM by stanford financial

i heard the Army Lab Finds 9,200 Uncounted Vials of trioxin 245

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:58 AM by Redpillblues

reply to post by stanford financial

OH NO were doomed..

We need a few thousand Tar Man's

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 02:40 AM by paradox headache

As a former US marine i can tell you given my own experience the military will fire on anyone they are told to, regardless of who, what, when, where, why. Once again we will find the answers to these questions from our worlds recent history.WWII Nazi Germany, Russia under Stalin ect ect ect. If you think we are any different or that our soldiers are so much different from those soldiers back then (some who only recently passed away) then in my opinion you are either dead wrong, or hoping and praying to whatever god you believe in that they won't.

But........they will

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 02:50 AM by mf_luder

Originally posted by paradox headache
As a former US marine i can tell you given my own experience the military will fire on anyone they are told to, regardless of who, what, when, where, why. Once again we will find the answers to these questions from our worlds recent history.WWII Nazi Germany, Russia under Stalin ect ect ect. If you think we are any different or that our soldiers are so much different from those soldiers back then (some who only recently passed away) then in my opinion you are either dead wrong, or hoping and praying to whatever god you believe in that they won't.

But........they will

Sorry, I've been in for 7 years now and you're wrong.

End of discussion.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 02:55 AM by jd140

reply to post by mf_luder

He is correct.

I will shoot anyone that I am told to shoot. If some American citizen gives me any lip I will reply with a swift butt stroke to the head using my weapon. If they put their hands on my I will put them down with a single round in their big mouths.

I am a soldier, who are they to demand I uphold the Constitution. As a private citizen they are beneath me.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 03:05 AM by mf_luder

Originally posted by visible_villain
reply to post by dooper

One unmanned drone is all you need? For what?

Just one little problem. I was among a few men who for months were actively hunted by an entire enemy division. They patrolled, they covered our drop areas, they would conduct sweeps, and they would sit in ambush.

We operated right among them, on their ground, in their back yard, and while we had a few close calls, they still weren't up to the job.

I am so tired of this 'holier than thou' military veteran crap !

You people have no idea who I am or where I've been ...

Of course, I assumed you would consider the drone infrared equipped, or with friend-or-foe transponders ... because my troops are radio ID'd ..

fergettaboutit ...

This isn't 1930 anymore !

This game is all over but the cryin !

Well, why don't you let us know about yourself then?

For one, the only person I've seen so far get any kind of serious attitude here has been you.

You come into this thread with some absolute rubbish about how we're similar to the Red Army of Stalin's day.....?

What dooper and the others are saying may or may not have the slightest iota to do with "patriotism." Like a previous poster stated, the fundamental structure of our brains doesn't change after being in the military - at all. I've been in over seven years and I still think for myself. I've actually disobeyed immoral orders in the past. I don't care what you or anyone else of a like mind tells me on this site, I know what I will and won't do in these types of situations and you can't say I don't know that - because I've been in firefights and the like. I've had to make the decision to fire or not fire.

You haven't.

I'm now an E-6 (SSG). I don't think I'm better than any average citizen who we protect, but I will say that I fully beleive I have a greater level of intelligence and wisdom being able to look past what you called "fear" and "terror" to see that I and the people I work with aren't mindless killing machines.

I came to this site the first time back in 2003 to look for stuff on UFOs and the like. However, it is slowly sickening me to see this type of rhetoric being spewed on here by the obviously uninformed and ignorant. You have the gall to tell us to "wake up" and "learn something."

Why don't you and your ilk learn about the US military and the people who are in now - and not back up your crap spewing with a bunch of youtube videos of random incidents. Go actually meet and talk to some regular Soldiers then come back and tell us what you learned.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by mf_luder]

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 07:46 AM by Jenna

Originally posted by mf_luder
Why don't you and your ilk learn about the US military and the people who are in now - and not back up your crap spewing with a bunch of youtube videos of random incidents. Go actually meet and talk to some regular Soldiers then come back and tell us what you learned.

Because if any of them did that then they wouldn't be able to come on here and talk about how awful everyone in the military is. They wouldn't be able to pretend you are all machines that don't have families and can't think for yourselves. It would completely shatter their world view and they can't handle that.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 11:30 AM by dooper

reply to post by paradox headache

Paradox, you apparently had some really sorry-assed NCO's in your day.

It's one thing to be given a free fire zone in a combat area and be ordered to kill anything that moves. That assumes that "friendlies" and the local civilians have been warned to stay out of this area or risk death. Only used for areas of intense enemy activity.

Quite another to be required to fire on fellow citizens. The NCO's won't go for it. The soldiers won't go for it. Any soldier that starts any shooting for that purpose will be stopped by whatever means required, and I've seen that too.

No one wants to have among them a psychotic killer. It makes everyone uneasy as they can't be trusted to have either good judgment or a reliable, tempered pattern of behavior.

Oh yeah, you'll have one slip through the cracks now and then, but they don't last very long once they go over the line. Soldiers do a very good job of policing their own.

We can always rely on our soldiers to do their duty.

And that duty never, ever, would require them warring on American civilians, or defying the oath they took to defend the Constitution.

Right now we have the brightest, most educated military we've ever had - and compared to some of the outstanding militaries we've had over the centuries - that's really saying something.

I've been invited to be the keynote speaker at multiple Special Operations functions - and let me tell you - these are men of outstanding character, capability, endurance, flexibility, presence, determination, and courage.

Some of those I spoke to and met years ago are having their actions and courage documented on the Military Channel, the History Channel, and it stuns me that I can say, "I know him!"

Finally - at the risk of being docked points or given a warning - it takes one dumb, unknowing, twisted, stupid SOB to suggest that our military would take on the American people.

And that's about all I have to say about that . . .

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 11:36 AM by Juston

To the non military members following this thread.

Pay no mind to drivel such as this:

Originally posted by paradox headache
As a former US marine i can tell you given my own experience the military will fire on anyone they are told to, regardless of who, what, when, where, why.

I'd fire on this guy before I'd let him fire on you unprovoked.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 03:13 PM by worldtraveler35

One thing about all this discussion on drones and robots; while I need a good reason to fire on another human being (like I said earlier, we do know right from wrong), I sure don't have much hesitation in blowing someone else's unmanned vehicle up, if I was able. Kinda like shooting pheasants back in the Iowa cornfields.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 04:06 PM by mf_luder

reply to post by jd140

Then you truly are lost.

If you would fire on the people we're supposed to be defending and go against our own constitution, then you should get out of my beloved Army and take your behind to blackwater.

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 04:22 PM by dooper

reply to post by mf_luder

mf, I think he was tongue-in-cheek making fun of those who would suggest that all soldiers are "yes sir, yes sir! Three bags full!"

reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 04:24 PM by mf_luder

reply to post by dooper

I hope so.

If that is the case, then I apologize.