Would our military personnel honor the Constitution or just follow orders?, page 4

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reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:07 PM by dooper

reply to post by visible_villain

All well and good?

One unmanned drone is all you need? For what?

Just one little problem. I was among a few men who for months were actively hunted by an entire enemy division. They patrolled, they covered our drop areas, they would conduct sweeps, and they would sit in ambush.

We operated right among them, on their ground, in their back yard, and while we had a few close calls, they still weren't up to the job.

And I'm to fear some unmanned drone? Those things are great in open terrain when you are against folks without appropriate countermeasures, but like all weapons systems, they have their limitations.

A new weapon comes out, new countermeasures and counter tactics are developed. Just the natural progression of progress.

In the next room I have a $17,000 piece of equipment that lets me see things too. Thermal only does certain things, and can be circumvented. Visual is limited. Neither does worth a damn in a driving rain.

The reason I'm alive is I never, ever, played to the enemy's strengths. I never, ever, gave them an even break. I cheated, deceived, and misdirected.

Now, why would I change any of those dirty old habits that served me so well for so long? Do you think I'm going to tackle them head on - all by myself?

No. I was trained to train others. Give me 100 men for thirty days, and I'll have a fairly effective fighting force. Give me ninety days, and they'll be taking scalps.

Give me those men for six months, and we can start approaching significant kill ratios, likely in the neighborhood of 40:1.

Momma didn't raise no fool, so don't assume you're talking to one.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:13 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by visible_villain

The only point you made was that you need to get back on your meds! Apparently you didn't bother to read any of the posts that I and other current and former service members have made. We are all Americans first and service members second! It is blatantly obvious that you have never served, either because you lack the courage or are unfit to serve (which is far more likely)!

Your "point" is like saying that UFOs exist because we went to the moon. Current service members could no more attack US civilians than they could show up at Grandma's house for Thanksgiving and rape the whole family!

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:21 PM by Jakes51

I wouldn't be so quick to gang up on the poor guy. He is just showing the other side of an insurgency in this country and using elements of history to back up his claim. I disagree with him but his claims are possible.

I mean look at the Revolutionary War sides where drawn some family members went the side of the Loyalist and others to the Patriots and realistically I'm sure they fought and killed each other. Another example was the Civil War where some family went the sides of the Rebels while others remained with the Union. Revolution is a very messy affair and if it wasn't --- you would see it more frequently.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by Jakes51]

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:26 PM by visible_villain

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by visible_villain

The only point you made was that you need to get back on your meds! Apparently you didn't bother to read any of the posts that I and other current and former service members have made. We are all Americans first and service members second! It is blatantly obvious that you have never served, either because you lack the courage or are unfit to serve (which is far more likely)!

our "point" is like saying that UFOs exist because we went to the moon. Current service members could no more attack US civilians than they could show up at Grandma's house for Thanksgiving and rape the whole family!

Nice one !

Boy, you sure made your point didn't you ?

Your insults indicate you are probably in junior high school.

My advice is to stop talking so much, and start to listen more - that way you might learn something someday .

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:27 PM by worldtraveler35

Sometimes, I can't really believe some of the things people "know" about the military that they have obviously learned from Hollywood.

A couple of points;
We know right from wrong.Being in the military does not somehow change every cell in your brain. My values and beliefs were formed growing up in rural Iowa. I am the same person; I may have learned some interesting skills in the meantime, but I'm still that kid from smalltown Iowa, with kids and grandkids of my own now.

There seems to be a belief that it's what the "Commander" or Boss or Superior Officer would order, that these more senior officers and NCOs would be the ones "making" the younger soldiers do something improper. See my first statement. We know right from wrong. I am one of those senior people, I'm a retired Sergeant Major. Hollywood and the news media has had a field day either inventing or sensationalizing corrupt, incompetent or just plain stupid senior leaders. Well......remember a General named Schwarzkopf? I served with him when he was a Colonel. There are many serious, professional, extremely compentent senior leaders, and they are the norm. A few sleazebags sneak through, they rarely make it very far, but with this many people, not every leader can be to H. Norman's standard. Make no mistake, speaking for the US military, the leadership by in far is professional, try their damnest to do what is right, take care of their people and follow the law.

I have no doubt some of you will not believe me. You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is formed after 26 years of service. I believe I have worked for some of the finest leaders this country has produced. Yes, I've seen some on the other end of the scale too. The system has ways of working those folks out. Is it perfect? No. But it's a military force there is no need to fear. We are you.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:31 PM by visible_villain

reply to post by dooper

One unmanned drone is all you need? For what?

Just one little problem. I was among a few men who for months were actively hunted by an entire enemy division. They patrolled, they covered our drop areas, they would conduct sweeps, and they would sit in ambush.

We operated right among them, on their ground, in their back yard, and while we had a few close calls, they still weren't up to the job.

I am so tired of this 'holier than thou' military veteran crap !

You people have no idea who I am or where I've been ...

Of course, I assumed you would consider the drone infrared equipped, or with friend-or-foe transponders ... because my troops are radio ID'd ..

fergettaboutit ...

This isn't 1930 anymore !

This game is all over but the cryin !

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:42 PM by dooper

reply to post by Jakes51

Jake, I certainly don't mind learning from history, but if we're going to cite an example, then let's get into the meat of the example and see the corresponding and parallel conditions. Only if key elements are similar can we then make a rational comparison.

One could just as easily say that since the special SS units were highly trained German Special Ops murderer squads, then likewise, our Special Ops folks are murder squads since they are highly trained as well.

This does not equate, even though one can draw a comparison or two, mostly about their advanced training. And that's about it. Otto Skorzeny and his group did some amazing things, but he should not be compared to special execution elements of the SS and then draw a direct comparison from that to our Special Ops.

Parallels must be definitive and conclusive.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:45 PM by Redpillblues

reply to post by visible_villain

Holier than thou?

Every post made by an Ex has been up to snuff..drones,are you kidding?

There rifles out that can take one out with one shot..The boys who frequent Knob Creek can show you a thing or two..

If what ever went down in the Us it will be Iraq on steroids..

Blue helmets take heed..

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:45 PM by dooper

reply to post by visible_villain

I really don't concern myself with what you're tired of, whether it concerns combat veterans or if you happen to be tired of toting an alien anal probe.

If you want to use analogies, then at least get them in the same neighborhood, and not skewer a point by stretching a comparison completely out of socket.

A faint grasp of history will certainly help, and fear not. You get it wrong, I'll be more than happy to help.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:46 PM by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by visible_villain
Your insults indicate you are probably in junior high school.

I haven't been in junior high since Ford was President.

My advice is to stop talking so much, and start to listen more - that way you might learn something someday .

You need to take your own advice! I spent eight years protecting your right to spout your crazy theories. The insult here was your original post. It shows that your 'knowledge' of the US military comes from movies and conspiracy blogs. Anyone who actually thinks that US military personnel would actually attack US civilians on US soil, no matter what the reason, is either delusional, insane or ignorant.

Now why don't you go back to the begining of this thread and try reading all of the posts, and maybe, just maybe, you might learn something.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:51 PM by wonderworld

If theyre on active duty they will follow the orders. If not they'll follow and FIGHT for our Constitution.

Homeland Security already knows this and has named then potential terrorists. For no reason, other than being trained in combat.

I'd like a few on my side when SHTF! about 8 or 10. They also know how to survive!

Once things change around 2010 many of our military and the fathers will not sit back quietly.

I feel odd telling you this. Why do you want to know?????

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:51 PM by visible_villain

Originally posted by Redpillblues
reply to post by visible_villain

Holier than thou?

Every post made by an Ex has been up to snuff..drones,are you kidding?

There rifles out that can take one out with one shot..The boys who frequent Knob Creek can show you a thing or two..

If what ever went down in the Us it will be Iraq on steroids..

Blue helmets take heed..

I hope you're right, my friend ...

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:55 PM by visible_villain

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by visible_villain
Your insults indicate you are probably in junior high school.

I haven't been in junior high since Ford was President.

My advice is to stop talking so much, and start to listen more - that way you might learn something someday .

You need to take your own advice! I spent eight years protecting your right to spout your crazy theories.

I am sorry you wasted eight years of your life fighting for the biggest whore this side of the Andromeda galaxy ( the USA ) ...

Suck it up, pal - what America calls 'honor' is an insult to the entire world !

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:01 PM by Redpillblues

never had the opertunity to stroke one of these..But shot my fair share of the fat fifty..20mm anti-tank..Good Night Irene..

YouTube Link

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:13 PM by JaxonRoberts

Click here for more information.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:17 PM by wonderworld

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
I think you guys are worried about the wrong Military. I'm not worried about Air Force, Marines, Navy, Army, Coast Guard. I'm more worried about Xe(Blackwater) and foreign troops.

I think some people are asking the wrong questions, the question is what is going to happen if things turn from cold to hot in NK? The military that will help protect us will be fighting a war.

I don't know why people are so worried about Marital Law, there are way more of us than there are of them. Not to mention, drills are way different from real life and when SHTF.

The question is what you are going to do to protect yourself. The US Military will protect American Citizens, its the Merc's and Foreign troops you should be worried about.

I dont know what to expect during martial law. One major bank failer, AIG going uner or a terrorist attack and we'll hve it.

We'll have manned military but may resort to using these heartless robots. Check them out they are fully armed.

Fully armed robotic

Unmanned Army vehicle , that drives, backs up and turns around.

Unmanned drone craft

British and Canadian spy surveillance helicopter unmanned. Canada's looks a bit different.

DOD drone chart of hours per year

These things dont have a conscience. Will they shoot to kill or change their mind if a child is inside?

GLOBAL: Bots without borders

www.irinnews.org...

The Implications of Robots in War: An exclusive interview with Peter Singer

ohmygov.com...

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:32 PM by visible_villain

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by visible_villain

As to the whore comment, leave your mom out of this!

If you live in the US, I have two words for you... GET OUT!

If not, I have two more words for you... FRAK YOU!!

You have no clue what the word honor means!

You do have a clue what a troll is... you see one in the mirror everyday.

Definately junior high ...

It's really a shame to see what 'the best' has come down to ...

Maybe if you started drinking distilled water it might help ...

Anyway, I wish you all well in the times to come, and I leave you now with a few words from the 'General' -

YouTube Link

May peace be upon you !

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:35 PM by Hastobemoretolife

reply to post by wonderworld

They are just machines, they don't think. They are also programmed by humans. besides a drone isn't going to do them much good with people hiding in heavily dense woods.

The fully armed robot looks scary, but once again it's still a machine. If it is autonomous it can only do certain things. Sure they are definitely lethal, but nothing that can't be defeated.

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:45 PM by visible_villain

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by wonderworld

They are just machines, they don't think. They are also programmed by humans. besides a drone isn't going to do them much good with people hiding in heavily dense woods.

The fully armed robot looks scary, but once again it's still a machine. If it is autonomous it can only do certain things. Sure they are definitely lethal, but nothing that can't be defeated.

You are in way over your head, my friend !

In this case, ignorance is definately bliss !

reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 11:49 PM by wonderworld

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by wonderworld

They are just machines, they don't think. They are also programmed by humans. besides a drone isn't going to do them much good with people hiding in heavily dense woods.

The fully armed robot looks scary, but once again it's still a machine. If it is autonomous it can only do certain things. Sure they are definitely lethal, but nothing that can't be defeated.

Maybe if they are equipped with heat seeking misiles and night vision. These babies are nasty. I read one thread on here that they evolve. That's a little too much to grasp. For now I'll just call them killing machines.

The flying drone craft is another topic.