Are people so uneducated as to think the world could function without monetary systems?, page 11

reply to post by bobbylove321

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LOL. I guess whenever I say the world is round then I am just saying what they want me to say because I have been programmed. Seriously, did like half of you get kicked out of school when you were 13?

reply to post by grapesofraft

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I would also just like to note, we are practically on a barter system.

Let me first say this. In ANY system, EVERYTHING is going to have value. You might be the only person who can "build" a computer (bad example, besides the point) in the entire city. It might have cost you nothing to make, but others will pay HUGE amounts of whatever for it.

Today, we work for a little piece of paper. Essentially, we are still trading our products/skills for other peoples. With money, we can trade with someone that doesn't need our skill though. Isn't that the best way to do things?

I am a dishwasher. Who is going need to my "skill" besides a few restaurants? Who is going to do that job in all of these other types of economies? Should I be getting the same pay as some CEO's who worked their life off to get to that point (excluding family hand downs)?

It confuses me to why some of you want such an imaginary life style. These systems only work on a super small scale level, and even then, it prevents any type of large products we see today (NASA just ONE example).

Nothing is perfect. Nothing is fair. But a capitalist economy (which is what we are moving away from...) is the fairest.

Why? Like grape said...

Law of supply and demand.

If you are needed - you get what you need in return.

If not - you do not get anything in return.

Pointless weight is tossed overboard - and even then our economy still sinks. Lets try to keep everyone on the ship and see what happens.

reply to post by jprophet420

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The problem with your logic is this.

People have skill sets today. Except, they are very specialized.

I agree with you that everyone should learn some basic skills from all professions, but that isn't gonna happen unless implemented into the schooling system. That will not help much though, besides saving everyone a few dollars and eliminating jobs that cater to those skills.

Back to my second line. In an advanced society, there are advanced professions. Lets go with engineering. Why would an engineer want to learn basics to everything in life, when they can become a master at what they do for a living?

Then, they can pay others to do things they can not.

In all of these non-capitalist economies, it devalues jobs such as engineering and scientists, and any other hard analytical jobs that require education.

A smarter population leads to a better economy right? Well, these resource shared, bartering, whatever, only devalues and completely blocks off motivation to such fields.

You work your butt off today learning something others can not, you will be paid. If you know something everything can do, or something that is useless, you need to have some luck getting a job.

Is that fair? Yes - even though from personal situations it sucks a lot.

The funny thing is - how are half of you going to help society with a bartering, resource shared, whatever, type economies? I hope you can farm, be an electrician, plumber, engineer, and who knows what else - because chances are, you will not have half the things you do today unless you aren't the things above.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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Actually the world's not round. It's a cubic sphere, and no I'm not kidding.

Since it's spinning very fast it looks like a sphere. Any object that spins at an incredible rate starts to form a spheric figure.

So yes you are being programmed.

reply to post by bobbylove321

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What the hell is a cubic sphere?

I will give you that it is spherical rather than just round, but where did you get the cubic part?

reply to post by wycky

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Well, you can move to Africa, and join their villages.

Don't worry about the diseases, viruses, phones, etc. You will not need it, the village doctor will have all of that stuff free of charge for you.

Or maybe if your family wants to live half way across the world to enjoy something else in life - do not worry about that phone!! You can walk it to them.

In fact, this computer and internet you have? Get rid of it. Everything you learned from the internet will disappear. Good riddance!

DO YOU SERIOUSLY NOT SEE THE BENEFITS OF ADVANCED CIVILIZATION!?!?!!?

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

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You must be in your late teens or early 20's. Am I right? If not, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by wycky

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Well, you can move to Africa, and join their villages.

Don't worry about the diseases, viruses, phones, etc. You will not need it, the village doctor will have all of that stuff free of charge for you.

Or maybe if your family wants to live half way across the world to enjoy something else in life - do not worry about that phone!! You can walk it to them.

In fact, this computer and internet you have? Get rid of it. Everything you learned from the internet will disappear. Good riddance!

DO YOU SERIOUSLY NOT SEE THE BENEFITS OF ADVANCED CIVILIZATION!?!?!!?

I'm only thinking out aloud, throwing around ideas, Its not perfect.

Diseases & viruses, were created by western civilization, when the English invaded new countries 1000's of people were wiped out by their diseases, and i'm not talking about living in some famine diseased area. It would be a village with skilled people taking the knowledge that we have now and improving on it.
If i was to leave my family that would be a sacrifice i would have to be willing to make if i wanted to, if they didn't want to come or were close by. But once the village grows you would start a family within the village and i guess it would stay in the village


I got no problem with an advanced society i have a problem with our society, and you missing the point, as much as i enjoy using my computer (and im on here all the time, ask my wife) i don't need my computer to live or enjoy life. If i had that sort of lifestyle i wouldn't need to come to ATS with everyone else pointing out what is wrong with society and what we could do about it, i would be out there living it.

Every product released is based on demand, demand was created by the companies marketing not what you need, and everything is upgraded so you always want better and keep spending and wasting your money.
Because im a bit of a computer nerd my example is a Hard Disk Drive. Take a look at a 500MB HDD from about 10 years ago and the same technology is used as today's 1TB HDD, we could have had 1TB HDD 10 years ago, but then me and everyone else wouldn't have spent $1000's in between now and then upgrading, and that goes for every single item in you house there is an upgrade or something better, even for your toaster.
People are only just starting to update to Blu Ray and there is already talk of a new format that holds the equivalent of something like 200,000 DVD's, but first they will milk Blu Ray of everything they can before releasing a new format.

IMO Money is holding society back from advancing to a new level, because it is the companies that make money from this technology, therefore our advancement will always be limited by their profit margins


I believe to reach a goal society like the Venus Project where we have the latest tech, minimal work and a good lifestyle, we will have to take a few steps back, work out what is important then we can take a leap forward.

Edit - Typo

Edit:
If you want you can bring your iphone hopefully you will have reception





[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

reply to post by wycky

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Every product released is based on demand, demand was created by the companies marketing not what you need, and everything is upgraded so you always want better and keep spending and wasting your money.
Because im a bit of a computer nerd my example is a Hard Disk Drive. Take a look at a 500MB HDD from about 10 years ago and the same technology is used as today's 1TB HDD, we could have had 1TB HDD 10 years ago, but then me and everyone else wouldn't have spent $1000's in between now and then upgrading, and that goes for every single item in you house there is an upgrade or something better, even for your toaster.
People are only just starting to update to Blu Ray and there is already talk of a new format that holds the equivalent of something like 200,000 DVD's, but first they will milk Blu Ray of everything they can before releasing a new format.

So you are saying that human beings are so stupid that they cannot say no when they see a commercial for something. I love how some people blame all their problems on everyone but themselves. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade everytime something new comes out other than your own low self esteem and need to compete with your neighbors.

They couldnt have just came out with 1TB drives. They have to develop new processes and new manufacturing techniques to increase the data density of hard drives.

If you know they are coming out with something better than Blue Ray then it is in your power to skip Blue Ray and wait for the other tech. As for me, I just use regular DVD's because I dont really have a need to see peoples nose hairs when I watch a movie.

So basically you thnk the world is corrupt because you and the rest of the world has no self control and get sucked in by every ad they see. That is just pathetic.

Originally posted by grapesofraft

Originally posted by Armour For Victor
reply to post by grapesofraft

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Funny. Why not ask your self what the route of all of our problems are. What it essentially comes down too. MONEY!. Get rid of the roots, you get rid of the weeds. So, you get rid of money, you get rid of the problems.
There really isnt much into understanding this simple concept.
With a lot of money comes a lot of power, in most cases. What does someone who has power want most in their life? MORE POWER. I dont have to explain why having to much power is bad.

I dont have a lot of money, but money I do have and money I will have in the future. But money is the last thing I would want, only becuase we currently have to have it, is why I need it.

Peace!

Money cant cause your problems, it is just a piece of paper. It is this type of thinking that amuses me the most. People who blame everyone and everything but themselves for their problems. Now a piece of paper ruined your life

There are ALWAYS going to be some people with more power than others as long as there is more than one person on this earth, so you might as well worry about yourself and not about someone who has more power than you.

And as long as your mind is set to believe that way, it will continue to be that way. I understand what you mean when you say that paper shouldnt cause problems and yada, yada yada. But the issue here is that if money didnt exist and people didnt feel the need to have the lastest car, or clothes or phone then our problems would actually be less. But because these items are here and because they cost money then problems will arise. Now think of it this way. we as a Human race allow our own species to starve and die. The only way to help is to send money. How stupid does that sound. Why should it cost a stupid pecie of paper to live on our own home planet. How moronic should one be to believe that we need money to live. I cant seem to wrap my mind around this idea. Ok maybe your not for the money idea, your actually against it. good. But the issues are not only with us, because at the end of the day, you still need money to stay alive. Now about your concept of power. Power isnt always a bad thing. They say knowledge is power. They also say money is power. Ill stick with the knowledge, you can have the money.


Peace!

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Armour For Victor]

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

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You must be in your late teens or early 20's. Am I right? If not, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Good guess.

You must be older than I because your arrogance shows that you must not explain yourself due to the age gap?

Why don't you do something constructive and actually add CONTENT to the thread or leave it. After all, age means everything in life! Look at the people ruling our economy...they are doing a fantastic job.

reply to post by wycky

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You see though - these skilled people have a MUCH better life (or at least 90% of them) in todays society.

That number will fluctuate depending on the economy...

Even in your perfect world, there will always be work that needs to be done. The resources will become so limited though, and once one person with a bit of greed comes in, it will just turn into what we have now.

edit - One more thing. If you want to live life in a house and just have food, and a phone for work, you do realize how cheap you could live?

You are acting like such materialistic objects are a must in our society. It is only if you let it be that way.

I am not going to do the research for you - but I could only imagine that the cost of living would be very minimal if you want it to be. Get a super cheap house, super cheap car, and eat super cheap food (or grow your own for that matter).

There you go. You will work lets just say a full time job (even if at minimum wage) like you would have to in any society (the "job" title might be different, as you will just be on a farm with family), and have the same objects. A cheap house, car, etc.

The thing is, in our society today, it allows BOTH. If you wish to live cheaply, you can. Or, if you have the talent, you can live extraordinary.



[edit on 29-6-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by wycky

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So you are saying that human beings are so stupid that they cannot say no when they see a commercial for something.

Yes
That's why in a country like America it's government and people are in huge amounts of debt, too many people live way beyond their means I watch a documentary a few weeks ago called "I.O.U USA" and the figures were incredible, and when questioning people on the streets about tax, the countries debt, about peoples own saving they had no idea, i know they only show the dumb people to prove their point, but that still proves there are dumb people out there.

I love how some people blame all their problems on everyone but themselves. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade everytime something new comes out other than your own low self esteem and need to compete with your neighbors.

If your inferring that i have a problem, i don't.
I know your not forced to upgrade, but some people feel that have to, to keep up with society.
Also things aren't built to last anymore, consumer electronics have such a short life span and when you weigh the cost to repair or replace, usually replacing is more beneficial, sometimes cheaper or a little more expensive but most people (including myself) would replace even though cost a little more but because its a few years down the track and you end up buying something better more features (an upgrade) . So yes because of the build quality of products we buy, in a way i believe we are forced to update.

They couldn't have just came out with 1TB drives. They have to develop new processes and new manufacturing techniques to increase the data density of hard drives.

If there was a need / demand for it they could have, i have a friend in the industry, he works for Seagate

If you know they are coming out with something better than Blue Ray then it is in your power to skip Blue Ray and wait for the other tech. As for me, I just use regular DVD's because I dont really have a need to see peoples nose hairs when I watch a movie.

That i agree with you
I'm still on DVD also and i have alot of old VHS movies also.
Only about a 2 or 3 years after DVD was released i read about Blu Ray and HD DVD in works so we could be in the same situation.
Blu Ray will become cheap and part of everyone's lounge room if they wanna watch a movie over the next 5 or so years, DVD will be gone so if you wanna watch a movie you will have to get a Blu Ray player. It will be the same scenario as VHS, if you wanted to watch a new movie in past 4 - 5 years you had to buy a DVD player.

So basically you thnk the world is corrupt because you and the rest of the world has no self control and get sucked in by every ad they see. That is just pathetic.

Myself, no
The rest of the world, no, but alot of people have no idea
The people are not corrupt but they just get sucked in to alot of things due to advertising and media.

[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

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