The Dial of Ahaz: An ancient time machine?

Alright I had this on my mind for a while. I read the book of Kings one and two quite a few times. I always remembered the story of God making a sun dial go back ten degrees and wondered if it was proof of time travel.

My curiosity was peeked when someone on another thread mentioned that there were no scriptures relating to time travel. I did a bunch of searches on this and only found a few very bizarre sites and some that I would have to pay for to read. So here is the story in a nutshell.

2 Kings 20:1 1 In those days was Hezeki'ah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

So the king was sick and was told he would die. He prayed to God for some more time and God granted it to him. As a sign God said He would move the shadow on the sun dial back ten degrees because everyone knows that it is impossible.

2 Kings 20:8-11 8 And Hezeki'ah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day? 9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 10 And Hezeki'ah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. 11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

Now after this the King had been given fifteen years. Does anyone know anything about sun dials? Would the amount of ten degrees actually be fifteen years? Or was the amount of degrees insignificant to the time he was given?

There are a lot of types of sundials
en.wikipedia.org...

The most commonly observed sundials are those in which the shadow-casting style is fixed in position and aligned with the Earth's rotational axis.........On any given day, the Sun appears to rotate uniformly about this axis, at about 15° per hour, making a full circuit (360°) in 24 hours. A linear gnomon aligned with this axis will cast a sheet of shadow (a half-plane) that, falling opposite to the Sun

I don’t see any time travel here, and not being a bible believer, I think the writer just used the sundial as a symbol.

I've always been interested in this turning back of the dial in the bible. In my research, I always got the feeling there was a time shift element to the whole story, though this is probably the clearest passage I've seen. Whoever said it wasn't in the bible was just talking out his butt. There is so much to the bible that either isn't obvious, is still unknown, or has been lost through time, you'd have to be a super-computer and probably do some time traveling yourself to know and understand everything that's in the bible. I don't have much to add to this, but I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread.

So he got about an extra ten minutes.

It was a sign, not a reprieve.

Originally posted by jackflap

My curiosity was peeked when someone on another thread mentioned that there were no scriptures relating to time travel.

I would like to throw this into the mix. The speed of light is in both the Bible and the Quran.

... the theory of relativity states that as the velocity of an object nears the speed of light, time slows down.

science.howstuffworks.com...

Speed = Distance / Time

Speed of light = 1 day / 1,000 years

The video details the math.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

bibleresources.bible.com... 3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=66&Submit.y=6

032.005
YUSUFALI: He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning.
PICKTHAL: He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.
SHAKIR: He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.

Translations of Qur'an, Surah 32:5
www.usc.edu...

Additional reference:





[edit on 22-6-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


I did a little more research into this. It seems as though Ahaz was king before his son Hezeki'ah took over. Ahaz was not right with God.

2 Chronicles 28:1-4 1 Ahaz was twenty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem: but he did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD, like David his father: 2 for he walked in the ways of the kings of Israel, and made also molten images for Ba'alim. 3 Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel. 4 He sacrificed also and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.

He was into worshiping other gods. Which are not gods. So God let foreign invaders besiege Jerusalem. Ahaz asked for help from Assyria. Where, when the battles subsided, he visited. There he saw an alter that he had to have.

2 Kings 16:10-12 10 And king Ahaz went to Damascus to meet Tig'lath–pile'ser king of Assyria, and saw an altar that was at Damascus: and king Ahaz sent to Uri'jah the priest the fashion of the altar, and the pattern of it, according to all the workmanship thereof. 11And Uri'jah the priest built an altar according to all that king Ahaz had sent from Damascus: so Uri'jah the priest made it against king Ahaz came from Damascus. 12And when the king was come from Damascus, the king saw the altar: and the king approached to the altar, and offered thereon.

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the dial. It may. I need to read into this more.

THE SUNDIAL/STEPS OF AHAZ

Benjamin Disraeli wrote, “Who gains time gains everything”. Yet in the Bible, a miracle was described not by the gain of time, but rather by the loss of “ten steps” of time. This is the Biblical account of the miracle of King Ahaz’s sundial as described in II Kings 20: 8-11.

Man that was one long link. It is a pretty good article and suggests that the dial was actually steps. If you go to the link there is a picture of some steps made of stone.

Alright I had to edit to take that link out. It didn't work. If you go to google images and type "king ahaz sundial" you will find the article among some other interesting articles. Some say that this was the first leap year. I am probably doing something wrong when I try to provide the link.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by jackflap]

What shall be theSign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day?


It was just a sign signifying God's word to Hezekiah. I actually think God turned everything back whatever the amount of measurement the 10 degrees was. which means he would have to rotate the earth backwards, not sure if any movement was made to the rest of the universe i personally believe that it was just the earth 10 degrees according to the measurement of the time.

A profit stopped the earth for a day !I forget where and why but it is in the bible there, mabey old testament.

Joshua, I think you're referring to.

Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.


[edit on 28-6-2009 by theyreadmymind]

As everybody knows, it is the earth's rotation about it's polar axis which causes the sun's apparent position in the sky to change throughout the day. As the sun's apparent position changes so also does the shadow cast by the sundial's upright element ... blah, blah ,blah ...

Everybody knows this.

So it should be obvious that it is far more likely this biblical passage refers to some ancient day when the earth's rotation reversed itself ...

This would also makes sense of the verbaige to the effect that the 'king entered into the house of the lord,' since if the earth's rotation were to reverse itself a whole lotta folks would certainly be 'entering into the house of the lord' ...

I know it sounds pretty weird, but this is really the only explanation which makes physical sense ...

Hello, very interesting subject!!!!!

The Dial of Ahaz Its a Sundial ? Its a Degrees Dial? or a Steps Dial? The Hebrew word for "DIAL" is "DEGREES", or "STEPS", nature grow by 137.5° degress in a spiral increasing by fibonacci sequence.
altitude can be the steps ?
Personally I call it the Spiralway of Adam, Our simulation go Ten degrees back on Latitude and Longitude. Also for each coordinate we increase/decrease both or single data coordinate as below: so:

Hezekiah's Pool. (The Ambassadors): 35.228997,31.776960,0 (0,0)
Ten Step Back. North: 25.228997,21.776960,0 (-10,-10)
Ten Step South: 45.228997,41.776960,0 (+10,+10)
Ten Step East: 25.228997,41.776960,0 (-10,+10)
Ten Step West: 45.228997,21.776960,0 (+10,-10)
Winter Solstice Sunset: 45.228997,31.776960,0 (+10,+10)
Winter Solstice Sunrise: 25.228997,31.776960,0 (-10,0)
Summer Solstice Sunrise 35.228997,21.776960,0 (0,-10)
Summer Solstice Sunset 35.228997,41.776960,0 (0,+10)

Here the results on a map with google earth:


Well it looks more a Scavenger Hunt Game based on a Time machine


I apologize to post here a link, but for someone that wish to read our research based on the Spiralway of ahaz .. here our website.
gspot.bugs3.com...

As the approach is with an interdisciplinary thinking and as our docs are mostly in draft the requirement is to be patient on read our docs.

PP

Originally posted by jackflap

Alright I had this on my mind for a while. I read the book of Kings one and two quite a few times. I always remembered the story of God making a sun dial go back ten degrees and wondered if it was proof of time travel.

My curiosity was peeked when someone on another thread mentioned that there were no scriptures relating to time travel. I did a bunch of searches on this and only found a few very bizarre sites and some that I would have to pay for to read. So here is the story in a nutshell.

2 Kings 20:1 1 In those days was Hezeki'ah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

So the king was sick and was told he would die. He prayed to God for some more time and God granted it to him. As a sign God said He would move the shadow on the sun dial back ten degrees because everyone knows that it is impossible.

2 Kings 20:8-11 8 And Hezeki'ah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day? 9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 10 And Hezeki'ah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. 11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

Now after this the King had been given fifteen years. Does anyone know anything about sun dials? Would the amount of ten degrees actually be fifteen years? Or was the amount of degrees insignificant to the time he was given?