IS anti-Male Sexism institutionalized?

I have heard many times about the oppressions of women throughout history, and I believe that the oppressions of men in general are deliberately overlooked, marginalized, or justified by society as irrelevant for discussion.

And this is something that I vehemently oppose.

My examples of Male oppression:

Men are required to fight and die to defend women and children, and yet are slighted as oppressors OF women.

All throughout history, men have been the VAST MAJORITY of war deaths, all for the purpose of defending women and society in general.

In the westernized world currently, women are far more likely to gain custody of the children in divorces.

Source: Department of Census
www.census.gov...

And women are far more likely to initiate divorces.

Custodial Women are More likely to be ordered child support payments than Custodial men

Source: US Department of Census (Page 30)
www.census.gov...

Women are expected to be equally represented in high paying Corporate positions and government jobs, but are not expected to be equally represented in the Dangerous, and Hazardous jobs that are traditionally male only.

Source: US Department of Labor Statistics
www.bls.gov...

In cases where the Man who was paying child support to a custodial mother, turns out NOT to be the biological father from DNA evidence, he must continue child support payments for a child that is not even his.

Source: Cordell Law School (US Code, Title 42, Chapter 7, Subchapter IV, Part D, Section 666)
www4.law.cornell.edu...

Non custodial mothers who are ordered to pay child support are twice as likely to default on payments than non custodial fathers who are ordered to pay child support.

Source: US Department Of Census (Page 31)
www.census.gov...

Women have the same rights as men (Voteing, land ownership, etc) but not the responsibility to register for the draft (The only exception I know of is Israel)

Source (You don't need a source on that one, do you?)

The world Health organization describes institutionalized female genital mutilation as a barbaric tragedy.

But Institutionalized MALE genital mutilation is a perfectly acceptable medical procedure...

So, cutting female genitals is Evil, but cutting Male genitals is "Acceptable"



People claim that women receive less money for the same work as men, which is cherry picked statistical lies...

The truth can be found HERE: (Playlist, "The Myth of Male Power)

www.youtube.com...

Anyways, in light of all this, what do you think of institutionalized oppression of males?

-Edrick

That is some interesting stuff there. I think I'll look at Dr Farrell's work at some point. I wanted to reply to you because this thread really got a lot of things going through my mind.
I remember watching my sister in the play The Vagina Monologues and at the end of the play there was a question and answer session about the material. I raised my hand and when called upon I expressed my appreciation for the writing and the acting and I asked why nobody ever talks about male circumcision. I apologize for not having this source but I've read that the process of removing the forskin destroys something like 30 to 40 percent of the sexual feeling in the penis. That is a travesty.
Men coming home from the middle east are broken inside and it's another travesty because they have next to nothing in terms of therapeutic rehabilitation. This is also a result of what you are writing about. The complete absence of awareness that men are humans. We are called pussies if we cry. And I'm certain there are some jerks who give us all a bad rap, but it's way out of line. Ultimately this thread inspired the idea that there is a masculine element inside of women which is ignored by both society and the individual. The same for men is also true. Thanks for making me think about it.

There was quite an extensive piece in one of the Canadian national papers a short while ago on the sexes. One of the points highlighted was that for all the so called gains women have achieved in the last 4 decades or so, they are far less happy. So for all the shortfalls that men face today compared with women, as you accurately point out, as far as I'm concerned, they can have them.

I feel particularly sorry for the current generation of women. 3 odd decades ago the feminists hijacked the educational system and from an early age girls have it drilled into them that getting an education and carrer are top priorities as it is very important to be "independent". NOWEHRE on the radar screen is getting married or having a family. So all to often today you have single, never married women in their late 30's who all of a sudden realize the clock is ticking in the baby dept and they become desperate as hell to have a child, but find most appropriate men to help them in this dept are too old to be interested.

Yes, thank you for the feedback gentlemen.

I would like it if more information on this point could be added to this thread, so if anyone has any information (Statistics and Raw Data) to add, please feel free to contribute.

I am compiling this information for a more authoritative journalistic piece and any additions to this would be greatly appreciated.

Male oppression and contributions to society have been slanted or ignored for many years (Decades, etc) and the entire westernized world is becoming a system of Female apologetics that is more concerned with granting women power, than it is with true equality or rational.

This is one of the reasons why marriage is declining, as has been pointed out the family is no longer an important goal for society.

More overshadowed by the participation in the "Rat Race" that is causing marriage rates, and birth rates to decline in the west.


-Edrick

I have a couple of interesting articles for you to read, if you are interested.

This article by Don Closson speaks of the Myth of females being held back in schools, and the reality of the Educational system becoming more Female centered, at the expense of boys.

www.leaderu.com...


And here is an article (Which mirrors the myth of male power) that explains that the "Pay Gap" between men and women is due to the choices that women make in their career, as opposed to and nebulous "Glass Ceiling"

findarticles.com...

Here is an interesting article from MailOnline, that states that women who are Invitro Fertilized can now name ANYONE as the father on the birth certificate, and therefore legally mandate that man to pay child support for a child that is not even his.

"The 'father' does not need to be genetically related to the baby, nor be in any sort of romantic relationship with the mother."

www.dailymail.co.uk...


And here is an article from the New York Times, that completely dispelles the "Fantasy" of the All female Utopia work environment.

www.nytimes.com...


Hope this information enlightens you...


-Edrick (As always, feel free to provide more)

reply to post by Edrick

WARNING, LANGUAGE AND EXPLICIT POSES IN VIDEO, NOT FOR KIDS, OR SENSITIVE WOMEN OR MEN.


I think this video sums up your consensus on the child support and what not.

It is, I had a teacher in school that asked the class once, "how many of you think women should get equal rights" we all raised how hands, he then asked "How many do you think women should be called to a draft at the same as a man" only men raised there hands, and women were like well it's not our job to fight, and blah blah blah.

I think really right now, the most surpressed group out there is white men.

You have organization protecting every group but that group! Well except country clubs

It's a good arguement to be had.

[edit on 22-6-2009 by Republican08]

Originally posted by Edrick
Yes, thank you for the feedback gentlemen.

I would like it if more information on this point could be added to this thread, so if anyone has any information (Statistics and Raw Data) to add, please feel free to contribute.

I am compiling this information for a more authoritative journalistic piece and any additions to this would be greatly appreciated.

Male oppression and contributions to society have been slanted or ignored for many years (Decades, etc) and the entire westernized world is becoming a system of Female apologetics that is more concerned with granting women power, than it is with true equality or rational.

This is one of the reasons why marriage is declining, as has been pointed out the family is no longer an important goal for society.

More overshadowed by the participation in the "Rat Race" that is causing marriage rates, and birth rates to decline in the west.


-Edrick

Birth rates among ethnics though are rising.....ex: latins in American ( mexican americans ) they still value family because a lot of them have less and depend on family so the more family you have the more help you have for everyone.......

reply to post by Edrick


If anything an all women work force would be full of jealousy and envy and trash talking and power controling.....

I love women and from talking to girls / women all the time they 100% always admit that girls don't like eachother...

Walk into a party a you will see every girl anaylize the other girl , comparing and contrasting about her looks and making a decision right then and there if they like them..

Guys usually at the start ( unless they are douche bags ) get along pretty easily where as women will be the first ones to talk #..

I'm not making this up this just comes from my experiences at highschool and college parties and just at social gatherings in general....


And god forbid there is ever a situation where there is 3 good looking guys and about 7-8 girls you better expect there will be jealously and # talking because everyone of those girls wants the guys attention .....and will do some funny things to get it.....


But yea kinda strayed off onto that one point....

There needs to be balance......equal balance........Society is trying to counter the male dominence with female privileges and it is making things worse.....

Balance is the key to all...

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
I asked why nobody ever talks about male circumcision. I apologize for not having this source but I've read that the process of removing the forskin destroys something like 30 to 40 percent of the sexual feeling in the penis.

Hmm, as I have the OP of this thread on mute, I really do not know what he is saying, and I do not want to. But, let me point out some information in regards to circumcision that the OP seems to be ignoring.

sigh, this seems to be another bash on women thread. How sad, as I feel everyone should be working together to better our world, and not blaming someone else for our inadequacies.

www.abovetopsecret.com... The thread where I tried to point out to the OP of this thread information about circumcision, and female genital mutilation, they are NOT the same, and cannot in any way be compared to being the same.

Cut and pasted the following, as I just wrote it today.

Circumcision in men, has many proven benefits. Not only for the man, but for the women they have sexual relations with.

The foreskin contains sensory nerve receptors as are prevalent over the rest of the penis. There is no scientific evidence that the extra complement of these in uncircumcised men leads to greater sexual pleasure. In fact, some uncircumcised men have been known to complain that their penis is too sensitive, leading to pain, and seek circumcision to relieve this. Diminishing sensitivity is in fact desired by many men in order to prolong the sex act by preventing premature ejaculation.

Studies have proven that circumcised men have greater sexual satisfaction than uncircumcised men.

So, some understanding here of circumcision. The foreskin is composed of an outer layer that is "skin". duh foreskin

Without circumcision, the inner layer becomes a repository for shed cells, secretions and urinary residue which accumulates. Creating a hospitable environment for the growth of bacteria and other microorganisms.

Uncircumcised men have a higher risk of infections.

The benefits of male circumcision?

Decrease in physical problems.

Lower incidence of inflammation.

Reduced urinary tract infections

Fewer problems with erections.

Decrease in sexually transmitted infections such as HIV, HPV, chlamydia and syphilis.

Almost complete elimination of invasive penile cancer.

Decrease in urological problems.

Women who have partners that are UNcircumcised have a much higher rate of cervical cancer compared to women who have partners who are circumcised.

Also, women who have uncircumcised partners have a higher risk of breast cancer. This is linked to HPV.

Compared to FGM, which increases all of the above along with many more dangers. I have never heard of a man dying from circumcision compared to women who die from FGM. Men do not have life long pain from circumcision as the women who go through female genital mutilation.

The two are not the same.

So, how again is circumcision mutilation? It is not, circumcision, does not remove the genitals as female genital mutilation does, circumcision removes some foreskin skin that is proven to cause problems, FGM removes partial and or complete female genitals.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by amazed


As you can see gentlemen, these women have absolutely no idea that they are inherantly sexist toward men, as they have justified this to themselves in their minds.

"Female Genital mutilations are abhorant and barbaric!"

"Male genital mutilations are the social norm, healthy, and completely normal"

This is known as "Bias", "Cognative dissonance", and "Sexism"

This is the institutionalized sexism that I was referring to.

They want you to believe that men are always the oppressors, despite their own cries to slice your genitals as soon as you are born.

This is my ENTIRE point.

Read the thread that she posted, and KNOW, that they do not CARE about MEN.


Q.E.D.

Sexist

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


I need to quote you a bit here, amazed. "I have the OP of this thread on mute I really don't know what he is saying" wtf? why bother expressing your freaking opinion on a thread where you are obviously not interested in what the OP is saying?
really? your screen name is amazed and I have to say it suits you. For the simple fact that you have amazed me.
" The foreskin contains sensory nerve receptors as are prevalent over the rest of the penis"
no freaking s$#%
So let me present the logical conclusion any sane person would come to after reading that line. You have sensory nerve receptors all over your penis! (provided that you have a penis of course
Does it hurt to pierce your ears? It's only skin! It's only cartilage!

I do think to a certain extent, our society is abusing males starting from a young age and maybe ending around college age (for the most part) since they have more freedom then. But of course, a man is made over those starting years so even if things are "fixed" by the time they're adults...in some ways its too late. And I really think a lot of the problems people see in the younger generation are because of this. I don't think a lot of younger guys today are functioning at their full capability.

We don't know what roles men are supposed to play in our society, since men and women are equal. I think there does need to be a male role, and as long as we don't have it, things won't turn out the best. I really think TPTB really take advantage of the disorganization and weakness among males that is created from an early age.

reply to post by amazed


I am a circumcised male and I agree with amazed on the differences between male circumcision and female mutilation.

The fact is that there is a large difference between removal of some skin and removal of parts of the genitals. If male circumcision involved removal of the penile head, that would even it up some. Male circumcision is more inline with labiaplasty or hoodectomy which are becoming common procedures with their own set of benefits beyond just cosmetic.

But to address the general topic, I agree that there is a level of acceptable sexism against males in our society. I don't see it as something that will change anytime soon. I believe it is part of the human sexual trait.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by janon]

I have a few points because this is something I have been interested in for quite a while now.

1) I have no doubt that we could trump up some "interesting" and "relavent" statistics that support the health and wellness benefits of female circumcision.

In a land that that has institutionalized circumcision (to the point that we must endure dirty looks and a fight to keep my sons uncircumcised at birth), all studies will naturally point in this direction.

Barbarism and assault know no sex. If it was truly so valuable and obvious of a choice (meaning any rational person would opt for it), then why not have it done on the child's 18th birthday so no 3rd party had the say on a piece of the most important organ a man has? I'd venture a guess that we'd have a fairly uncut population if we did it like that.

2) Abortion, adoption, and child support.

Example A:

Man A and Woman B have sex resulting in pregnancy. Man A wants the child and Woman B does not.

Result - Man A loses.

Example B:

Man A and Woman B have sex resulting in pregnancy. Man A does NOT want the child and Woman B does.

Result - Man A loses, and there is a pretty good chance he will be saddled with 18 years of financial slavery by the will and force of the state.


[edit on 23-6-2009 by KrazyJethro]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I have a few points because this is something I have been interested in for quite a while now.

1) I have no doubt that we could trump up some "interesting" and "relavent" statistics that support the health and wellness benefits of female circumcision.

See my previous post. Female circumcision should be referred to as labiaplasty or hoodectomy respectively. Also, I have seen the infections that happen in uncircumcised males and it isn't pretty.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
2) Abortion, adoption, and child support.

Example A:

Example B:

What is the alternative? That women are forced into carrying to term or forced abortions? Men don't have to be responsible for their own children? Birth control is widely available and perhaps both parties should talk about those options before having intercourse.

I agree that it isn't completely fair but neither possibility is fair. It is all a grey area.

Is anti-Male Sexism institutionalized? Yes it is. It is the way society has become. Radical feminists are to blame and shame for the very real inequality adult males now face today. Not women, radical feminists.

However, this does not excuse the large proportion of crimes that are committed by adult males. It is not something us males like to admit or face, but more crimes are committed by males than females in almost all areas one can think of. Unfortunately, feminists capitalise on these statistics to demonise men as a whole and push for female rights to be superior to male rights.

And on the other side of the coin, jobs that are more dangerous, unpredictable and tiring go to males as opposed to females. Work that requires longer hours and more intense activity will be "given" to males over females.

Another interesting statistic would be to see how many people who commite crimes come from family's that have been broken up by mothers heading into the workforce. Not excusing criminal behaviour, but it does make one feel more empathetic about the plight they face as a result.

[edit on 23/6/2009 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by janon

See my previous post. Female circumcision should be referred to as labiaplasty or hoodectomy respectively. Also, I have seen the infections that happen in uncircumcised males and it isn't pretty.

I labeled it that way so the average bear would understand my meaning. It's not really a very important element to the discussion though.

About the infections, one could get all sorts of ailments, infections, and general health hazards with poor sanitary habits. This is nothing new. There is nothing odd, unknown, or abnormal about the idea of cleaning one's self to reduce infection and other risks.

This is no reason for the practice. The exceptions and oddities do not make the rule.

I am all about personal choice. If my son's wish to have the procedure done, I will support them fully, but I provide them the choice out of respect even though I was not afforded that.

What is the alternative? That women are forced into carrying to term or forced abortions? Men don't have to be responsible for their own children? Birth control is widely available and perhaps both parties should talk about those options before having intercourse.

I agree that it isn't completely fair but neither possibility is fair. It is all a grey area.

The alternative could be a few options.

1) If women would prefer to keep 100% of the rights, then they may keep 100% of the responsibility

2) If women choose to share those rights then they may share said responsibility.

There are more things that could be discussed that would create a far less invasive court/family services (government) approach that would at least stem some of the inequities.

I in no way wish to limit women's rights, but simply to create some form of legal remedy or recourse for men so we are not left voiceless and optionless post-implantation.

reply to post by Republican08


Every time I see this Vid and I see the back of that slime ball's head I want to take a base ball bat and hit him as hard as possible .

[edit on 23-6-2009 by OpusMarkII]

Originally posted by OpusMarkII
Every time I see this Vid and I see the back of that slime ball's head I want to take a base ball bat and hit him as hard as possible .

I'd be interested to know why?

Good song to me.

It is strange how the logic for the procedure came after the procedure was performed. Normally you have a reason to do something, medical support, whatever, THEN you do whatever it is you do. So we're retroactively trying to provide a rationale for why we do the crazy things we do.

"Hey Bob, why do we do this"
"Oh, I don't know, let me do some research supporting why we do this and I'll get back to you"

It's very odd.

It's like punching yourself in the face repeatedly, not knowing why, then saying later "This actually strengthens my bone structure, so if by accident I ram my face into a tree or some other hard object, the damage won't be as severe".

I wonder, given all the proactive health benefits some profess, how come we don't take the mammary glands out of males at a young age? I'm serious too, there are actually reasons for doing that. Males wouldn't have to worry about breast cancer, and yes men do get it. Males wouldn't have to worry about developing breasts. A good deal of young guys when first ramping up testosterone develop to a certain degree small breast growth, and the problem can arise from too much body fat. Honestly, I would think about 90% of guys would prefer that procedure considering the cosmetic benefits. I don't think any guys out their want to develop breasts...

[edit on 24-6-2009 by ghaleon12]

[edit on 24-6-2009 by ghaleon12]