The 1952 Tremonton, Utah UFO Fleet, page 3
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reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 06:37 AM by Norge
I usally only read but this was so good that i have to applaud you jkrog.
My hope is that someone like you preferably you look into the amazing video made by security guard Yalcin Yalman from Turkey.

www.youtube.com...

TUBITAK the National Observatory Center in Antalya,Turkey stated: "The objects sighted in the aforementioned footage have a structure that is made of specific material and are definitely not made up by any kind of computer animation nor are they any form of special effects used for simulation in a studio or for a video effect therefore in conclusion it was decided that the sightings were neither a mockup or hoax. "Furthermore in the last part of the report, it was concluded that these objects in the sightings that have physical and material structures do not belong in any category (such as; planes, helicopters, meteors, Venus, Mars, satellites, fire balls, Chinese lantern etc.


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 10:22 AM by SLAYER69
Originally posted by reugen
reply to
post by SLAYER69



Looks a lot like the German Messershmitt "Komet" or Me-163 that was built and used at the end of the war, 1944-1945.



You know I'm a very firm believer in there being other races who have visited the Earth.

But....

I'm also a realist. I wouldn't disagree that there could be many cases of early experimental craft being misidentified as flying saucers, that goes without saying. However there are those cases that just cannot be explained


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 01:31 PM by kidflash2008
reply to post by SLAYER69



To Internos: If the NY photograph was explained as a long exposure of the moon, why are the stars not exposed the same way in the photo? The stars are still dots, while the moon has been allegedly overexposed. I don't see how that is possible as the earth is rotating.

Thank you for showing that photograph, SLAYER69.



reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 03:36 PM by Myrmecobius
reply to post by Norge



I'm made of "specific material". The guys at the observatory aren't likely to be materials scientists. Or qualified to comment on video adulteration techiniques. Think of it this way: when you're ill do you consult an astronomer? But let's assume they are right about the astronomy.
The straights of north-western Turkey are a migrating bird of prey motorway (sharing the top honours with Gibralter). Add in a bit of bio-luminesence along the leading edge and our perceptual habit of completing lines and you have the shape you see.
If the delta shape is real and not a visual artefact, well, it's most likely a kite with a bit of luminous paint. Not suggesting the guy faked it, simply filmed someone unknown flying their kite at night. If you fly a kite at night wouldn't you make it luminous in some way? Is that a nice kite-flying wind I can hear in the recording?


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 04:02 PM by jkrog08
Thanks to everyone for you kind words and support on for this thread. I truly hope everyone learned something, enjoyed it, and maybe if they did not believe before, now they do. The Montana Film is also another good case, although it is not as solid as this one. I would suggest following the related thread link and source links like NICAP if you want to learn more about this case and others. bluebookarchive.org is also great. UFO Hunters is a great show to watch as well (I know some do not like it but it really is). The reason I am staying with the Blue Book cases right now is because they are the most documented and researched ones. The newer ones have much less research (due to lack of funding pretty much) and there are A LOT of hoaxes these days. So again, thank you to everyone.



reply to post by Riposte


They staged the interview (after an initial one) so it would flow more smoothly for the USAF documentary, which clips are shown in the rest of the film.




Reply to Slayer69

Thank you again for your input with those pictures my friend.



[edit on 6/23/2009 by jkrog08]


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 07:06 PM by internos
Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to
post by SLAYER69



To Internos: If the NY photograph was explained as a long exposure of the moon, why are the stars not exposed the same way in the photo? The stars are still dots, while the moon has been allegedly overexposed. I don't see how that is possible as the earth is rotating.
Thank you for showing that photograph, SLAYER69.

Thank you for your question, but at the time i wasn't even born so the question, i'd guess, is not for me: all i know is that a closer body travels always faster than what is in the background, especially if what you have in the background is far from the camera. : after a VERY interesting discussion with nablator, i came to the conclusion that there was something wrong about that explanation, anyway there was something wrong (see my next quote): I can share my previous posts about this photo, so you can have an idea about what i think: btw, the original shot says it ALL (see below).



Originally posted by internos


this is it in its full context:


According to Project Grudge, it would be a long exposure shot of the moon It could be a difficult to digest explanation, but its appearance would be consistent with a long exposure shot of the moon, imho.

To rule out the possibility for the cameras available at the time to take such a long exposure shot, would put to rest the explanation: but since the assessment by Project Grudge was made the same year, how come that they were even able to mention something that still didn't exist? And how come that the stars are visible so clearly despite the visual pollution and the reflections are resolved in bright strikes? These are all indications of a long exposure shot, in my humble opinion.
Now, to compare a shot taken presently wouldn't be the best thing to do, but it does make the point: The Moon + Venus + hand shaking:

it doesn't look very different, apart the shacking.

Another possible explanation would be a multiple exposure, with shots not very distant each other:


and Blue Book archive is not available, btw but i think there was nothing but what already posted here, regerding this case.

In the other hand, looking at Stellarium, and simulating half an hour between 17:30 and 18:00, i got a movement very different from the one of the photo (i will add some screen capture)


Sun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for New York, New York (longitude W73.9, latitude N40.7):

Monday
20 March 1950 Eastern Standard Time

SUN
Begin civil twilight 5:33 a.m.
Sunrise 6:00 a.m.
Sun transit 12:03 p.m.
Sunset 6:07 p.m.
End civil twilight 6:35 p.m.

MOON
Moonset 7:19 p.m. on preceding day
Moonrise 6:47 a.m.
Moon transit 1:28 p.m.
Moonset 8:20 p.m.
Moonrise 7:08 a.m. on following day

Phase of the Moon on 20 March: waxing crescent with 4% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.

New Moon on 18 March 1950 at 10:20 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.


Here is it: in according to Stellarium, this should have been the Moon's motion that day at that time, between 17:30 (1) and 18:00 (2):

as you can see, it's the opposite than the expected, and (not) a small missing detail: where is the Sun? The photo was NOT taken in New York on March 20 1950 between 17:30 and 18:00, IMHO.
So, basically, some possible explanations are:
1) Stellarium is wrong
2) The photograper was a liar
3) The guys of Project Grudge were some heck of investigators since they did NOT notice this inconsistency
4) The photographer was drunk
5) The guys of Project Grudge were drunk
6) I am drunk
7) Something else i'm missing right now

Sadly, all we have is just the picture


Here is it, more or less: since the guy didn't notice anything, and since the population, didn't notice anything, i would dismiss it as some long exposure shot of the Moon. But some calculations brought me to other results.




[edit on 23/6/2009 by internos]


reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 10:26 AM by ItsallCrazy
reply to post by jkrog08



Brilliant thread dude, well researched.

One thing still springs to mind, how the f did it take them a 1000 hours to come to the conclusion it was birds.. clowns



reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 10:40 AM by Erasurehead
Originally posted by ArMaP
Another great thread, with a great presentation, about a case I did not knew (I confess that I know only the most famous ones, probably because here in Portugal, at the time these cases happened, the ruling dictatorship did not like to have foreign influences over the population).

But I think that ruling out the birds explanation was not properly done.

First, birds' wings are not completely opaque, when under strong sunlight, the light shines through the wings, most of what we see are the translucent feathers, and that would make them look brighter than an object that was just reflecting light.

Second, many birds, including the seagulls I see everyday, do not need to keep on flapping their wings, they can fly for a long time without a flap.

Also, if the Newhouse was a chief photographer, why did he make that misjudgement of changing the aperture of the camera? That makes me think that he had lots of practise of photography from the air, but he was not used to photograph from the ground up, if he was he would knew that the change would make the image worse, or he did not knew that camera well.

PS: an extra star for remembering deaf people, but the transcript is not exactly like what we can hear on that video, although the changes are small.


What about the estimated size and speed of the objects? Based on these estimates from the OP this eliminates the possibility of the objects being birds.

Estimated size of objects based on that distance was between 16 and 98 feet
• The estimated velocity was anywhere between 378-3748 mph depending on actual distance of objects and compensation for shaky film. Most have settled on 665 mph for a mean speed. However that is still supersonic.
• Maximum acceleration computed at 21,168 mph/sec with G-Force at 965
• Minimum acceleration computed at 1,104 mph/sec with 50 g’s
• Maximum deceleration computed at 32,448 mph/sec with 1479 g’s
• Minimum deceleration computed at 272 mph/sec at 12 g’s


reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 11:00 AM by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by internos
Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to
post by SLAYER69



To Internos: If the NY photograph was explained as a long exposure of the moon, why are the stars not exposed the same way in the photo? The stars are still dots, while the moon has been allegedly overexposed. I don't see how that is possible as the earth is rotating.
Thank you for showing that photograph, SLAYER69.

Thank you for your question, but at the time i wasn't even born so the question, i'd guess, is not for me: all i know is that a closer body travels always faster than what is in the background, especially if what you have in the background is far from the camera. : after a VERY interesting discussion with nablator, i came to the conclusion that there was something wrong about that explanation...

Internos, When jkrog08 linked to your post in the other thread, and I read that post, I had the same questions as Kidflash, but I think I figured out the answers. Because this thread is about the 1952 sighting I decided to post my reply in that thread rather than here (I didn't want a different sighting to hijack this excellent thread off of the 1952 Utah sighting, maybe that other sighting (or hoax) deserves its own thread?), however I'll provide this link to my reply there:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think it also answers the question by Kidflash. I think you were on the right track but your theory just needed a little tweaking.
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