Come on, let's just admit it. We haven't a clue....

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
well if we don't have a clue, there is very good root reason for it :

we live in a world full of lies,

and that is not paranoïa, but the way our system works : accumulating lies and mistakes to the advantage of the powerful. that is how society build itself, on lies and mistakes, not on truth and dont' make me tell you about galileo again.

if that is fine with you guys, go on accepting whatever TPTB tells you is real or not.

unless this "we don't have a clue" thing also include TPTB and its official truths ? then discard my post.

[i can also see more bees and insects in general this summer in europe and that is great - let's hope that last two years were accidents]

It's funny you mention Galileo, because when I start a thread about the "knowledge" in the Bible I get blasted so hard.

Galileo proposed a heliocentric system, and not a geocentric one unlike what the Christians thought. For that, they locked him away.

The same thing, I guess, can be said here. People who DO know some semblance of the truth are constantly saying it, but they're being ignored, charged, rolled over, or silenced.

Not just with regards to religion, but I guess with all that you've said.

Conspiracies like 9/11, reptilian species, aliens, political scandals - pretty much a lot here are groundbreakers and a lot hold truth and significance. Problem is, I'm learning, but there are those that aren't. There are the people that ignore and continue to live in denial because they were raised a certain way. "Flat-Earthers" is what Stephen King calls them - for e.g. they refuse to believe aliens exist unless one slaps them in the face, and even then they would think it's a trick.

In the world out there, it's even worse.

So even if we DO "have a clue" - there is no power with that knowledge. Power only comes with knowledge and intelligence when we can DO something with what we've got in our minds. Knowing this is good and all, but like I said in my earlier post, what are we going to do when there are so many minds divided, some saying good stuff, some saying ridiculous stuff... when you're going to just speak but not DO (i.e. have power come with your info)?

Finf this book:

Virus of the mind - the new science of the meme (or something like that)

If you go to google books you can pretty mucvh read whole chapters for free (it has free preview)

(when on the google page click on "more" then on "books", and search for it there)

I saw loads of dead bees in london this weekend. it was weird, my friend mentioned it and we kept seeing them along the pavement. I dont know if this was because the weather got a little cooler. I'm no bee expert , but thought i'd mention it

Oh I know I'm clueless but I am good at sounding like I know what I'm talking about... thing is I know everyone else is just as lost but they just won't admit it.

reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy



Oh but I do have a clue........here it is.........

"It's bigger than a shoebox and it's painted red and yellow"


It's called entertainment, a mental diversion, an exercise in dot connecting,
a puzzle, look behind the curtian.........


[edit on 24-6-2009 by whaaa]

Wow, nearly a year since I started this. Guess what? We are all still alive!

Also we are all spinning in fear about things we honestly have no clue about. SO the fears de jour are:

1. BP oil well will collapse and cause mega volcano/tsunami/end all life in the world.

2. Imminent WWW3 in the middle east - (jaysus, when is it anything but?)

3. Economic collapse that will bring about the worst depression in human history - We will all be living in caves shoving berries up our noses for Christmas dinner.

Did I miss anything?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by andy1033

Click here for more information.

Good to see intelligent responses still abide in ATS.

I obviously touched a nerve. That's ok, I don't like the fact that I know as much as 99.999% of the people on this board - i.e. nothing - and feel a lot better by admitting it.

I remember back in 2003, when I first discovered messageboard forums. I was addicted to seeing if my posts would draw responses, and that addiction lasted a few years. It was fun, and I don't feel like I wasted my time with it, since I learned a lot about people during that time. A lot more than I would have if I'd only used the Internet as an news source, or for spamming email jokes.

I come here to enjoy the thoughts of other people, and to comment now and then. This is one of the better forums I've posted on, and I've posted on many dozens of the most active over the years. Yeah, the paranormal forum is a bit slow and the trolls get ugly in the political threads, but believe me, there are much worse places on the Internet for hatred and ugliness. AOL's forums are the worst, and coming here is like taking a shower after being on some of those threads.

I don't know. I think that it's okay for us to be wondering aloud about things. Humans are curious creatures, and we're the only corporeal life on this planet that is intellect-centric, so it's not as if we're going to suddenly wake up, slap our heads, and say "Damn, we need to get back to work and stop bothering with all this nonsense." This nonsense is the main event for creatures - intellect-centric creatures - such as we. Wondering about and making up stuff about the things we run into and hear about everyday is what human beings are all about.

I'm just glad that the technology has finally made it possible for us to stop pissing off our wives with all this sh*t and funnel it all out of the house through our modems. If I'd have had this Internet thing back in the day, I'd still be on my first marriage.

I say rave on y'all.

I like the thread man. Everyone seems to be searching for the "truth". Some people think the truth is reptiles run the world, some think the truth is 2012 and Niburu.

Personally, I think the truth is that we don't know anything! I say relax, live your life, and embrace the mystery!

Originally posted by doped00
I like the thread man. Everyone seems to be searching for the "truth". Some people think the truth is reptiles run the world, some think the truth is 2012 and Niburu.

Personally, I think the truth is that we don't know anything! I say relax, live your life, and embrace the mystery!

I started this thread in a bad mood, just annoyed at the so called 'Experts' peddling their wares. You seem to have drawn a very beautiful and poignant message from my thread and that makes me happy!

Originally posted by NorEaster
I'm just glad that the technology has finally made it possible for us to stop pissing off our wives with all this sh*t and funnel it all out of the house through our modems. If I'd have had this Internet thing back in the day, I'd still be on my first marriage.

I say rave on y'all.

I agree totally with these sentiments..! Made me laugh as well! Cheers!

Back on a more serious note, are you saying that it's ok to peddle lies and stories as the 'Truth'? As long as it inspires the process of wondering? It's a theory I am not averse to, but I think more positive elements of say, Sci-Fi are better for the job as opposed to the continuous waves of End of The World scenarios that are popular on the forums recently.

Your thoughts?

reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy


Perfect, just simply perfect.

I have been on ATS now for about 5 months and for two of those months I have been very active and this is by far the best thread i have read. Not just in terms of content but also in the articulate and well structured design of the thread and the unadulterated bunt truth it holds in each glorious word.

Don’t get me wrong, I love conspiracies as much as the next ATSter, but have you ever tried to tell someone on the UFO’s forum that there picture of a UFO is in fact a mad with a camera and some photo editing software? You would have more success convincing the Pope that the bible is a dan brown book. People on here get so wound up about stuff that either does not matter or is just utter rubbish and when you point out their mistakes they turn into abusive fundamentalist conspiracy theorists.

How can we deny ignorance on ATS when so many of our users deny ignorance in every thread?

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy

 

People on here get so wound up about stuff that either does not matter or is just utter rubbish and when you point out their mistakes they turn into abusive fundamentalist conspiracy theorists.

Ah, yes. A man after my own heart. They get wound up because the truth they have taken into their heart has turned out to be hollow. People take to the religion for almost the same reasons I think.

Would they be better of if they just admitted that they in fact know nothing? I think so....

reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy



I think some people have more of a clue than others but I certainly don't think we know anywhere close to everything. Perhaps if education were more glorified - instead we use the name Einstein like its an insult - we could come closer to the truth and keep pseudoscience where it belongs, in the realm of fiction and fantasy.

Post your opinions on why any conspiracy topic is either an ego-stroking exercise on the part of individual posters, an exercise is group fantasy or a cynical marketing ploy to sell home-made DVDs or direct traffic towards their website for ad revenue.

2012 is clearly a con job peddled by pseudoscientists and new agers trying to make a buck on the insanely gullible.

Other theories I have no respect for:

Hollow Earth, reptilians, creationism, HAARP, moon landing hoax and anything else that has been repeatedly disproved but still has followers.

reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy


I remember when I was at school I dabbled a little in philosophy. Once my teacher started a debate with us saying the earth is flat, his argument was so logical it was impossible to refute what he said. Yet we all knew the earth was round. Anyway he done this with a few more topics I think it was electricity does not exist and that he was a figment of our imaginations again so logical it was impossible to refute what he said. Towards the end of this I asked him what the point in the exercise was he responded “we cannot claim to know anything” to which I responded “Sir, by claiming that we do not know anything, you are claiming to have knowledge of that fact that you do not know anything and therefore everything you have just said is untrue.” Unfortunately at that the bell went and we never went into it ever again.

I think that’s what goes on allot on ATS, a whole load of people making some very logical arguments to dismiss that which we hold to be true. No matter how logical their arguments they are not true.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy

Originally posted by NorEaster
I'm just glad that the technology has finally made it possible for us to stop pissing off our wives with all this sh*t and funnel it all out of the house through our modems. If I'd have had this Internet thing back in the day, I'd still be on my first marriage.

I say rave on y'all.

I agree totally with these sentiments..! Made me laugh as well! Cheers!

Back on a more serious note, are you saying that it's ok to peddle lies and stories as the 'Truth'? As long as it inspires the process of wondering? It's a theory I am not averse to, but I think more positive elements of say, Sci-Fi are better for the job as opposed to the continuous waves of End of The World scenarios that are popular on the forums recently.

Your thoughts?

I think that blasting off within the well-established confines of a forum like this (one that's famous for conspiracy theories and crazy talk) is harmless. What bothers me is when high-powered media stars and junior-level House Reps start foaming at the mouth across the cable channels, and the softheaded among the rank and file start thinking that they have to pick up guns to take their country back because of what those media and political liars are peddling.

People can get really messed up over that sort of thing because a lot of folks don't understand the game of politics, and actually take that kind of talk seriously. On here, I think that we all have a good idea that we're exploring and investigating. That's pretty healthy, actually.

reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy


While I'm happy to concede we're all pretty much clueless when it comes to conspiracy, religion, prophecy, aliens and the like, I find it disturbing that your inspiration for the thread was the fact that you saw some bees and had your cell phone nearby and the bees didn't die instantly, which obviously means that scientists pointing out the alarming rate of bees dying -- and that there may be a link to cellphone towers -- must be complete and utter bunk we have no clue about. What a gross oversimplification.

While we are in fact clueless about certain things, there are things which we do have a clue about. Maybe not all the definitive answers, but clues? Yes. It's called science. Science isn't always 100% right, but tossing aside things like environmental devastation as irrelevant or not a big deal because some people preach it's a sign the end is imminent when the clues point to processes that take years and years to develop, seems rather... clueless.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy

 

I think that’s what goes on allot on ATS, a whole load of people making some very logical arguments to dismiss that which we hold to be true. No matter how logical their arguments they are not true.

Well, that is the beauty of debate and you can see some cracking ones here on ATS, whether fought in the Debate competitions or staged in the forums. You can argue against or for a point irrelevant of whether you believe in it or not. With a small bit of research you can even argue on subjects you know little to nothing about.

That is not what I have the problem with. The problem is the conclusions reached by these debates, i.e. we are all doomed in the near to immediate future. People are persauded by elegant arguments and take the cause to heart and fight tooth and nail in it's defence. Even when they haven't a clue about it outside what they 'researched' - read that as 'googled on the internet'....

Originally posted by Nameless Hussy
reply to post by howmuchisthedoggy

 

What a gross oversimplification.

Er, yes. I do apoligise if I was taking liberties with this issue. When I originally wrote the post we were well into the bee thing and all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios were being peddled on the boards.

To be honest, I don't have a clue. I am not a bee expert but countering the noise on the internet I had the following:

1. A friend who is a bee-keeper who had heard the same information yet was not experiencing any problems along with not even hearing any of his bee-keeping colleagues having any problems.

2. I also had the evidence of my own eyes of as many bees as I have seen in my youth (many years ago sadly) as I can see around the garden now.

3. One year later the bees are still there, the buzz (sorry couldn't resist) of the bee story has died down, the supermarkets are full of food. We are all still alive.

4. Doctor Who story regarding the bees disappearing raises suspicion that it was all a viral marketing campaign?

Maybe not all the definitive answers, but clues? Yes. It's called science.

We are not all scientists. Well, I am. Sort of. Ask me about my area of expertise and I can give you a fair to good answer and my take on things. Ask me about me about bees, the economy, socio-political affairs and I have as much clue as anyone else. The difference is I admit it, while a lot of others parrot what they have read or heard in order to appear as experts and as having a clue....when they don't. Which is my point.

Science isn't always 100% right, but tossing aside things like environmental devastation as irrelevant or not a big deal because some people preach it's a sign the end is imminent when the clues point to processes that take years and years to develop, seems rather... clueless.

You are correct and well put. However, I would posit you this question, in all respect:

How do you know what is true?