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Goldman to make record bonus payout

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posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Oh, btw

I really doubt they needed that bailout $ anyways, I am pretty sure the govt. just pretty much required them to have it there..

At the worst GS was at 60-80/share (i cant remember).. they werent close to needing that $




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Oh, btw

I really doubt they needed that bailout $ anyways, I am pretty sure the govt. just pretty much required them to have it there..

At the worst GS was at 60-80/share (i cant remember).. they werent close to needing that $


You are right goldman sachs didn't specifically need the money but if the government didn't help the others they would have collapsed due to the panic that would have encompassed all financials even the okay ones.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 

and they control the market,


This is the key phrase. Not really much to do with TA and trading platforms, as your American free spirited competitiveness would have you believe.

When you own the game and can change the rules at whim, winning is a foregone conclusion.

It's not about being 'the best' it's more about being the most ruthless, cold hearted and demonic .... IMO ... and having the leverage to tip the scales in your favor when it suits.

[edit on 22/6/09 by RogerT]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

They repaid the tarp, so lets just quit complaining and talk about UFO's or something

[edit on 21-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]


Unfortunately, you are correct... they did repay the TARP but they did not repay the taxpayers fully. The TARP was instituted by their cronies and they did repay per the terms of repayment that their cronies drew up. However, they did not repay the taxpayers.... I'm still looking for that $1 fee in my example.

As soon as I see them repay the FULL amount they "borrowed" from the taxpayers I'll not even consider their "profit" a topic worthy of discussion because then it WILL be their profit and not the taxpayers' money.

Until then... these bonuses are being paid from the taxpayers' money...



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Oh, btw

I really doubt they needed that bailout $ anyways, I am pretty sure the govt. just pretty much required them to have it there..

At the worst GS was at 60-80/share (i cant remember).. they werent close to needing that $


Yes you are correct again BUT the fact remains that they DID take it (even though it was more than likely forced upon them) and by taking it they (TPTB) created a product line, per se, (the bonds that needed to be issued because they took it) to make fees off of.

Bottom line:
1.) Do you really think that it's OK for them to report their fees on the bond sales as profit when only a percentage was paid back to the taxpayers for TARP?
2.) Do you really think that it's OK for taxpayer money (again the $1 fee in my example) to be reported as profit and then distributed within the company as bonuses?

If so, then thats ok, you are entitled to your opinion but then I'd have to say that morality and fairness has lost all meaning in the corporate world and that that thinking has infected the general population as well.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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RogerT is also on the money regarding his comment about changing the rules.

Our problem here is that they have taken mathematical certainties and played them into 'probability' of which they control the principle factors.

There should never be any shock when the 'casino' or 'house' profits from its operations. That is the way the system is engineered.

Of course, the fact that their most influential and powerful employees' are taking 'tours of duty' in the Federal government doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the notion of 'fair play' or 'free market.'

But let's just reduce ourselves to not commenting or exploring the subject because we are too feeble-minded to comprehend exploitation.

It's all envy right?

How many times to the elites have to go through this lesson? Perhaps they can make it illegal to complain or even discuss banking. That would be better for those who just LOVE the game.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Oh, btw

I really doubt they needed that bailout $ anyways, I am pretty sure the govt. just pretty much required them to have it there..

At the worst GS was at 60-80/share (i cant remember).. they werent close to needing that $


Yes you are correct again BUT the fact remains that they DID take it (even though it was more than likely forced upon them) and by taking it they (TPTB) created a product line, per se, (the bonds that needed to be issued because they took it) to make fees off of.

Bottom line:
1.) Do you really think that it's OK for them to report their fees on the bond sales as profit when only a percentage was paid back to the taxpayers for TARP?
2.) Do you really think that it's OK for taxpayer money (again the $1 fee in my example) to be reported as profit and then distributed within the company as bonuses?

If so, then thats ok, you are entitled to your opinion but then I'd have to say that morality and fairness has lost all meaning in the corporate world and that that thinking has infected the general population as well.




1. Did they broker the trade? If they did any commissions associated I guess.. maybe i am misunderstanding you

2. If they deserved the commissions or fees from processing the transaction, yeah, I guess, if thats what you are inferring

Its a tough world. You take profits where you can get them, no doubt in the world of finance and wall street its take you can get when you can get it. I guess I dont have a problem with that if I am responsible to my shareholders to produce the highest profits (whether or not they went to bonuses or whatever happened to that specified money)



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by RogerT
 


It has everything to do with TA and .25 ms platforms and hubs to the market.. thats how you are the best. Think the quickest and act the quickest, being ruthless is fine if that is the game that is being played. I dont have a problem with that.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


OK, I get it, you are impressed by the flexing of muscle and hi-tech lunacy, a true american dream seeker.

It is most likely the current fixation on algorythm trading that has fkd the markets, (and most probably the world economy), and turned them into little more than a vegas crap shoot for 'honest' money.

The era of 'might is right' is soon coming to an end. Ethics will be the currency of future generations, something GS et al have no concept of. Their days are numbered, so enjoy the spectacle of ignorant arrogance whilst it still appears to the naieve to be admirable.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by RogerT

OK, I get it, you are impressed by the flexing of muscle and hi-tech lunacy, a true american dream seeker.

It is most likely the current fixation on algorythm trading that has fkd the markets, (and most probably the world economy), and turned them into little more than a vegas crap shoot for 'honest' money.

The era of 'might is right' is soon coming to an end. Ethics will be the currency of future generations, something GS et al have no concept of. Their days are numbered, so enjoy the spectacle of ignorant arrogance whilst it still appears to the naieve to be admirable.


It isn't that there will be a new era of love and justice for all. When more people participate in the markets, then algorithm trading will be much more difficult. Most of the money that buys and holds or doesn't just buy and sell at a blink of an eye is not in the market right now. When more money is in the market, it is much more difficult to manipulate prices. GS isn't amazing at trading by any means, they just have a lot of money mostly with the help of the government and they are just buying and selling to other funds/banks (let's face is, GS is just one big hedge fund). When trillions of dollars come in and buy and hold and sell, their tens of billions won't have as much of an effect.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by RogerT
 


algorithmic trading has NOT f'd the markets...

please, take some time to study % moves related to the 200 EMA, 50 EMA, and 20 EMA

you have no idea what you are talking about, sorry, ill just leave it at that

I have written many algorithmic programs lately and even though it cpu vs. cpu that doesn't offset the prevailing trend.. I have 20 + years of analysis to back this up...



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


lol

no again.. i like you man but we bunt heads on this..

you havent seen the analyitical tools at their dispense.. its almost not fair.. but then you find out you can program trading systems just like them, and then it is fair again..its actually more than fair..



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by RogerT
 


algorithmic trading has NOT f'd the markets...

please, take some time to study % moves related to the 200 EMA, 50 EMA, and 20 EMA

you have no idea what you are talking about, sorry, ill just leave it at that

I have written many algorithmic programs lately and even though it cpu vs. cpu that doesn't offset the prevailing trend.. I have 20 + years of analysis to back this up...


you are deluded, sorry man, your experience has clouded your judgement.

algorythm chasing has made it very difficult if not impossible for genuine hedgers to use the markets for what they were actually designed for.

black boxes moving massive amounts of money in and out of the market is the reason for the ridiculous volatility that have turned the markets into something more akin to a casino.

In the end, when the markets are nolonger driven by sane fundamentals, and solely prevy to mindless black box algorythmic trading, TA becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and real value is lost.

Not to worry, the incoming ethical consciousness will sort it all out over the next few years. Better start developing a new skill set while there's still time



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by RogerT
 


The problem is the automated computer back-end system is engineered for exploitation.

Many are now making use of it. And they have the legislatorial and regulatory mechanism in their pockets, thus engendering a never-ending cycle of exploitation, while the Madison Avenue crowd continues to publicize the system as 'free marketing for the people' when in fact it is a fixed shell game.

'Ethics' is what was abandoned to accommodate those who actually OWN the market. They pay BIG bucks to maintain the illusion that it is a 'free' market and would rather we all abandon capitalism rather than accept the fact that the free market has been controlled by private interests and most if not ALL of our economic woes are caused by the 'honorable' profit taking of those 'in the know'.

Soon we will see the MSM begin to "spin" the issue to make us believe that it is capitalism and free enterprise that failed. When in fact it was the equivalent of robber barons who destroyed the economy - with the avid cooperation of those politically-appointed government "leaders" (placed there with the blessings of our political parties.

Pathetic attempts at portraying the market as a jungle of business evolution are part of the Madison Avenue fantasy.

Interestingly, I think one small change could forever 'shift' the monopoly of trading information.

OPEN THE MARKETS FOR 24-HOURS A DAY - SEVEN DAYS A WEEK! No more "overnight" collusion, no more, timing games.

Oh well, I will just be called ignorant or deluded I suppose. But then, look who'll be doing the calling and what it is they will be 'defending'.



[edit on 23-6-2009 by Maxmars]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by RogerT
 


Ummm.. what?

You realize that instead of my program auto trading I can just get the alert signals and trade on that right? So there is NO DIFFERENCE - people that are complaining are the suckers that get caught in the line of fire in a professionals game. The market right now is not made for retail players with no experience. That is for sure.. but trading programs have nothing to do with that.

Just because my program will auto trade at a certain % above an EMA doesnt mean I can't push "sell" just as easily.. your logic does not make sense.

Oh, and genuine hedgers? Like farmers and such? They are in the game as well buddy and pay a very hefty premium for having their transactions executed accordingly by the big players (institutions).. they just don't jump in by themselves, that would be suicide.. and genuine hedgers don't give a damn about 5-10 points here or there.. they are in it for the long haul..

Do you write programs, or follow the markets? What software do you use?



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


its not exploitation.. i dont get seriously what you two are referring to...

its just math formulas that get triggered.. i can push buy or sell just as easily



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


We must have overnight trading..

Are you referring to futures or actual equity trading through Inet or something?

Futures contracts must be able to trade like that because it actually makes the game much more fair believe it or not



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Been staring at the screen for 8 minutes now and I can't think of a single response that won't get me banned or on a government watchlist.



I agree with you 100%.

When I read the article online, I was just stunned. And likewise, I don't know what to say or how else to express my rage without using some very bad words or some seriously violent implications.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Ok, I realize you all might not get what I am talking about..

Here is an example of one of my formulas


EDIT:

Ok nevermind every time I input the formula it messes up the whole post and the rest of what I have typed.. I dont know why must be something with the HTML.. but if you want to PM me you are more than welcome to

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]



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