Joe Legal vs. Joe Illegal

Good points OP. Illegal immigration is one of the REASONS California is in such a mess financially. Starred & flagged.

reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy


So what exactly stops more from going in and using your method? What would stem the tide? Just curious. Sounds to me like you're basically abolishing borders in so many words.

I was making the same points in this thread and I got flamed(albeit without any contradictory proof)www.abovetopsecret.com...

What we need to do is give them less incentive for coming here in the first place, such as reducing a lot of the government subsidies. I think some of them do like taking an advantage of the system, they realize the benefits and just think citizenship is too much of a hassle. Either end the majority of the benefits or like someone else stated, make them citizens so they have to pay taxes and what not.
See the problem is we're not treating illegals like equals, we're treating them like they're "special". Now if our politicians really believe in the words of Jefferson that all people were created equal, then treat them like you do the citizens.

Pay attention to the point about "The War on Work".

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Very interesting. To be honest didn't read the whole thing as I'm in a hurry. The only thing I have an issue with is, I doubt Joe Illegal is making 15.00 an hour. When I worked doing construction for a contractor during college the illegals we picked up worked for $50 a day for 8 hours and a sandwich for lunch. I will admit, that was in 94-95 so they might be making much more now.


[edit on 21-6-2009 by really]

Everybody already hates me on this site, so I'll go ahead and voice my opinion and then simply take cover.

1. I don't think it's fair to simply kick all of the illegals out. Due to our FLAWED system, they have now built careers, homes, families. I don't think they should lose it all because we are partly to blame.

2. I don't think legal immigrants should receive social security benefits or medicare -- at least not until we have a system in place that supports its citizens first. As it stands now, US citizens won't be collecting social security for much longer anyway. You have to protect your citizens first, and then help as many people as we can. Otherwise, people will be becoming "legal citizens" right around or right before retirement age and flooding this country like crazy.

3. Companies employing illegals should be penalized -- without the possibility of pressing charges against any of its workers so everybody turns them in -- and half of the fines should be put towards medicaid/welfare and the other half should be put into a fund to assist illegals to become legal.

4. We should have "immigrant amnesty". Allow a 30-day period (short time because we will have immigrants coming in to take advantage of the program) in which all illegals have to register and begin the process to becoming legal. No penalties (we probably won't be able to collect it anyway). After 30-days....we would have no exceptions. From that point on, anyone in this country illegally should be kicked out. Period.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by lpowell0627


1. I don't think it's fair to simply kick all of the illegals out. Due to our FLAWED system, they have now built careers, homes, families. I don't think they should lose it all because we are partly to blame.

2. I don't think legal immigrants should receive social security benefits or medicare -- at least not until we have a system in place that supports its citizens first.

3. Companies employing illegals should be penalized -- without the possibility of pressing charges against any of its workers so everybody turns them in -- and half of the fines should be put towards medicaid/welfare and the other half should be put into a fund to assist illegals to become legal.

4. We should have "immigrant amnesty". Allow a 30-day period (short time because we will have immigrants coming in to take advantage of the program) in which all illegals have to register and begin the process to becoming legal.

-edited the above for space.

#1. In answer to this. Which is the most often reason buzzed by Bleeding hearts and Repube-icans... I do not think it is fair that they BROKE the law in the first place. DEPORT THEM! My wife had to stand in line, pay the tax and wait for permission, they are NO different. Why? Because they speak Spanish, they should be allowed to break the law? They have families, yes, why? To break the 14th amendment and abuse it by baby dropping, thats why.

#2. I partly agree. I do not think illegals should get ANY benefiets, including my hard earned Constitutional rights that some how seem to confer on them just because they are Spanish speaking Illegals! The benefiets you mentioned are for CITIZENS, not Illegals!

#3. Deport the Congress. Problem solved. The business's giving jobs to illegals are a symptom of the problem Congress created. They are not giving them to illegals because Americans wont do them, but because Americans CANT do them due to being undercut by Congress.

#4. Amnesty does not work, did not work the last million times we tried it. It does not Punish for breaking the law, in fact it rewards for breaking the law. Lets give murderers Amnesty too! See how that works out. No, I am not equating here, just showing how ridiculous that the thought of amnesty really is.

This issue will never correctly be addressed because people try to put a human face on the problem. It doesn't matter if Jose the illegal is a good gardener or a super nice guy, he broke the law and should have to pay a penalty.

Those who say its "inhumane" to deport illegals are out of their minds. Criminals who go to prison are taken from their families but not too many people cry for them. So the inhumane argument is really a diversionary tactic to stifle intelligent debate (typical Marxist strategy).

If this issue centered around Germans or Finnish or some other "white" group they would be deported already. The simple fact is these people are brown and whitey is so afraid of offending them and losing their votes that they are content to allow our country to deteriorate into a 3rd world cesspool all in the name diversity, job retention, and cheap labor.

So, to those that are pro-amnesty I say Thanks!

LOL at this thread...Yes we illegals are taking all your jobs BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Originally posted by muzik
LOL at this thread...Yes we illegals are taking all your jobs BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Hmm........

reply to post by muzik


Actually no one said that. But, thank you for showing you are a moron.



[edit on 21-6-2009 by skoalman88]

reply to post by drwizardphd


No disrespect intended,however have you given thought to the thousands and thousands of legal immigrants that took the time and effort to EARN citizenship? Those that have become model citizens,and actually assimilated into society? Kicking down the fence,and broadcasting the intention that all will be forgiven to any and all comers. It's a slap in the face of those that WORKED for those rights to be a citizen. IT's also a slap in the face of the people that believe that some laws are in place for a reason,pity doesn't exonerate usurpers of the law.

Let me put it this way.
If the U.S.economy was a big healthy dog,and illegals were ticks. How many ticks could constantly feed on that dog before it bleeds to death?
Simple enough?

reply to post by purplemer


Wha? Look at our country now. California and Texas for example. If you do not know the cons for Americans regarding illegal immigration, we shouldn't even be talking.

Without borders, that problem would only escalate to a brand new level, just much higher.

For an American - bad.
For a Mexican - good.

I don't know where you are from, and can not blame Mexicans for wanting to get out of that POS, but I am from America, and want to protect the American way of life. If they truly want in, go through the process legally (and learn English).

Spreading the wealth wasn't the right phrase, but it certainly would not help our economic system - or American citizens themselves.

One thing that bothers me about the legalization of illegals is the comparison to legal immigrants.
For example, there are many highly educated, honest people from all over the world who would love to come to this country, live, and work here for either a temporary period of time or permanently. These people would be so excited to contribute to the economy, pay taxes, and who are willing to go through a long expensive immigration process.

However, the current political system seems to punish exactly these people by making it nearly impossible for them to immigrate.

On the other side, you have illegals who simply walk into this country, settle, and after a while (I believe 5 years) they are able to file for either a greencard or citizenship, I don't know the details to be honest.

The bottom line is, that honest, hard working people have to struggle and get turned away while others (illegals) seem to be more welcome.

I run into people all the time who are citizens and don't speak a single word English.

Just a thought.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by thegreatobserver]

great post,

information impacts people so much more when its simplified like this.


i will be reposting on social networks.

thanks!

edited grammar.

[edit on 6/21/2009 by Alaskan Man]

Originally posted by dubiousone
reply to post by Night Star

 

Wait a minute, there, Night Star. Something about your post doesn't ring true to me. If you and the many "illegals" you mentioned all worked in a factory that paid very well, then the "illegals" must have paid the taxes that are automatically deducted from workers' wages. If what you say is true, then as such a good American hell bent on solving the problem, why didn't you report your employer to the feds? They would have swooped in, removed all the "illegals", and you would still have a well paying job. Were the "illegals" better employees than you were? Even if they were better employees, the feds would have moved in and removed them. A little explanation is in order here.


Most of the people who use hospital emergency rooks as their 1st tier health care plan are Americans who do not have and cannot afford health insurance.

[edit on 6/21/2009 by dubiousone]

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Night Star]

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
"Joe Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Heck... I work armed security for a government contractor, at a facility that works with the Navy, and I don't even get $15 an hour, and I'm required to get shot at!

Originally posted by muzik
LOL at this thread...Yes we illegals are taking all your jobs BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

And ain't it crazy too, that some think a job is a right, and something that BELONGS to THEM?

A job is something one person creates and offers to another, if they feel like doing so!

Imagine, you start a business, you need some help, you create a job position, and before you have a chance to offer it to whomever you should be free to offer it to, some smart ass gangsta comes along and says "Hey, THAT'S MY JOB, not them illegal humons that should get their butts off OUR turf!"

You know what? Screw it, I ain't offering anybody any more jobs, especially the snotty ones that think it is THEIR JOB to TAKE and not MINE to OFFER! Talk about bigotry laced arrogance!

reply to post by lpowell0627


YES, YOU ARE HATED EVERYWHERE...lol

What do you mean our flawed system? Not having enough border guards to keep them out? Do not blame Americans because we did not break the law, the illegal immigrants did. Just because our system is not perfect, illegals get to stay? Gimme a break.

Companies employ illegal aliens because here in CA no one stops them from doing so, and they work cheaper.

We've tried "immigrant amnesty" and it doesn't work.

How many countries can you enter illegally and be treated as a citizen? One, the good ole USA.