Iran finds US-backed MKO fingermarks in riots

For all these people who whine about America having nothing to do with the situation in Iran, come on open your eyes.

1. America supported the Shah of Iran and his brutal regime for decades, the Iranian people had enough and deposed him.

2.Hatred of the Shah's murderous regime and Americas inconditional support of it allowed extremists in Iran to take power.

3.Here we are today, hopefully the Iranians can have there own democratic government free of American meddling.

Originally posted by rogue1
Well, the knowledge that precursors were supplied by the Germans and the Fench built the facility at Samarra has been known since before GF1. But you would have to be completely naive to think Reagan and his various departments didn't know about it and what's more condone it. Back then it was defeat Iran at any price for embarrassing America.

I see, so even though it is actually a fact that the WMD that Saddam used agaisnt the Kurds were supplied by the Germans, it is still ok to bash and blame the U.S. for what Germany did?...

Because the U.S. didn't start a war with the Germans for them supplying Saddam's regime during the 80s, it doesn't mean it was the fault of the U.S.

You are too naive to think your made up excuse gives a right to keep on blaming the U.S. for somehting the Germans did.

Anyway, what I was trying to point out is that despite some people, and even Americans in the Left claiming the U.S. is behind every problem in the world, the fact is that this is not true, and what the Iranians are doing is a choice which the IRANIANS are making...

Originally posted by Apollumi

Yep, held a secret clearance. Was in for 4 and extended for a year for a total of five years. Served in the Marines. 5th award rifle expert (248 out of 250 last time at qualification). Was also sgt of the guard for the anti terrorist squad where I was stationed at. Back when Regan was the president and Bush (old man) was vice president. Got out not long after general Gray became Commandant. Used to make a lot of trips to the pentagon, navy annex, naval imaging center.

So what? thousands of U.S. soldiers, airmen, and sailors have a secret clearance, it doesn't mean that you are right about your claims on this topic. Having a "secret clearance" in the U.S. military is nothing that big, and i should know because I also had one... It doesn't mean anything at all, and just mentioning "secret clearance" doesn't make you right about anything, and much less about "claims" which the Iranian regime is just throwing out there because that is what they do all the time...



[edit on 22-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by Blundo
Either way the US/Israel are winning this one. A disabled government mean they can move more CIA assests in and gain more power.

Except the Russians are next door, in better positioned to do this, and have a track record of it.

The Chinese already are making inroads with Iran would love to fill another power vacuum as they are in Africa.

Turkey has been a natural competitor and plans to extend control of the region.

The Saudis can actually afford to do it and are Iran's worst enemy.

European countries like Britain, France, Germany would see an advantage.


But the level of Middle East political sophistication around here is:

The US/Israel did it. The US/Israel is doing it. The US/Israel will do it.

Somewhere if you search long enough on Google there's a website proving it. Why bother to follow events. Just assemble your players and create your own story.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael


Except the Russians are next door, in better positioned to do this, and have a track record of it.

The Chinese already are making inroads with Iran would love to fill another power vacuum as they are in Africa.

Turkey has been a natural competitor and plans to extend control of the region.

Mike you are right, if there was any proof that this was orchestrated it could have been done by any of those players you meantioned. But most of those people who love to bash and blame the U.S. for everything bad that happens under the Sun, would never even mention this possibility. To them "all bad things were/are done by the U.S."

Is like they live only to bash and blame everything on the U.S. even wihtout any proof.

If this was happening in some other country, like when it happened in Venezuela, those in the left who love to bash and blame everything on the U.S. would claim "those are freedom fighters working for the people", even when proof of the attrocities which the Chavez regime caused on Venezuelans is shown to them.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Ah but you see, there are too many people in the world, and in these forums who can't understand the fact that there are millions of Iranians who want change. These people always have to claim "the big bad U.S. is behind it" even when they have no proof, only claims, exagerations, and even lies.

The U.S. itself is being turned inside out, and many Socialist policies are being implemented, these same people who love to blame, and bash the U.S. for everything, think these changes are for good, but apparenlty they can't understand that whent here is more STATE control, people have less control, and Socialism gives more control to the STATE, and not to the PEOPLE.

What does US domestic policy have to do with this? I for one will tell you that many Americans, who view the world much differently than you, also do not agree with Obama. Try and refrain from the broad assumptions. I also don't see the connection of the two?

Do you have proof that the Iranians alone are behind it? Assuming you don't, why would you believe them more likely to be? Knowing that the US would have so much to gain by controlling Iran's government, and the fact that they have overthrown them in the past (as I've already shown here www.abovetopsecret.com...), what is it that confuses you about the idea? Further even still when the event time line of 1953 parallels the events now? "Operation Ajax" also began with an unprecedented, landslide victory for the unpopular candidate that boiled over into a mass protest? How could anyone, even slightly intelligent, not be suspicious?

The U.S. is not the country that has meddled the most with others, but of course people like you have been indoctrinated into believing this, so the changes that are now happening are accepted by Americans such as you.

How do you come to such conclusions? Where are your facts that the US is this peaceful nation that refrains from meddling in others? There are no facts due to all your info is ludicrous! The US is in a constant state of meddling and bullying. You are critically delusional if you actually believe anything you've said? America is less than 200 years old and has already attacked almost every country worth the effort. Iran is nearly 5000 years old and has never attacked even one! Below is a list of countries bombed since the end of WWII. I hope it can help you understand how foolish you sound right now?

List of countries the USA has bombed since the end of World War II

China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian
Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Libya 1986
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991-2002
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Croatia 1994 (of Serbs at Krajina)
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998 (airliner)
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999 Afghanistan 2001-02
www.btinternet.com...

Deaths In Other Nations Since WW II Due To Us Interventions

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.
www.countercurrents.org...

The US is estimated to have caused between 20 and 30 million deaths since 1945!! Exactly what other country do you think can account for even half that? You my friend need to take a better look into history and your knowledge, or lack, of it!

Because someone disagrees with the policies of their government doesn't make them a hater of their country. Actually, calling them out on their wrongdoings is what being patriotic is all about. Kissing their ass for it only makes you an ass kisser. All that gets you is humiliation and shame. Oh, and maybe a little mud in the eye? So pull your pants up and go wash your face. Learn a little truth while you're at it!

Peace.

Originally posted by Zerbst


The US is estimated to have caused between 20 and 30 million deaths since 1945!! Exactly what other country do you think can account for even half that? You my friend need to take a better look into history and your knowledge, or lack, of it!

Stalin's Purges

Under the dictatorship of Joseph Stalin, tens of millions of ordinary individuals were executed or imprisoned in labour camps that were little more than death camps. Perceived political orientation was the key variable in these mass atrocities. But gender played an important role, and in many respects the Purge period of Soviet history can be considered the worst gendercide of the twentieth century.

Originally posted by MegaCurious


I figured that something was fishy about the "demonstrations".

This Moussavi dude doesn't take losing elections very lightly either.

Why these folks would want to over throw their "Ayatollah" is totally beyond me. No news source has given a valid reason for that. But after Obama chimed in with his "will of the people" nonsense, then something just clearly didn't feel right.. because America never follows the "will of the people"

www.presstv.ir
(visit the link for the full news article)

I was confused for a long time, how can the opposition who was one of the founders of the original revolution be behind all these protests. He is not much different then Ahmadinajad.

It sounded fishy all along, I'm sure this won't be given much attention at all here in ATS or anywhere else for that fact.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Actually if you talk about possibilities then US definitely have the highest probability of orchestrating this due to the fact that they have done it before. Due to the fact that America has surrounded Iran in the past 8 years by invading 2 of its neighbours. Due to the fact that America still has full support for the nation of Israel and regards any threat to Israel as a threat against America. Due to the fact that since the Shah was kicked America has been supporting terrorists groups like the ones in Pakistan to fight against Iran.

I can add many more 'due to the fact' commentaries here which would increase the possibility of America orchestrating this violence compared to other countries.

Originally posted by pexx421
Come on people. Is our history of constant meddling in other peoples elections, in attempted coups, in colored revolutions, completely forgotten? Bush stated outright that he allocated 4 billion for the destabilization of Iran during his term, and congress approved it. Where do you think that money went, that it just disappeared? This isnt debated, it was said openly and plainly!! It is just this sort of action that we are notorious for in places like venezuela, cuba, haiti, columbia/panama, philipines, greece, etc. What makes any of you think we are different now? The only american polls run right prior to the election had ahmadinajad winning by a landslide, and he did. But his opponent announced his own victory 2 hours before the polling was even done. This has all the features of classic american disruption and intervention.

I wont necessarily state that we DID intervene, but i certainly wouldnt deride the possibility the way you all are.

Quote your comment so others can read it. They called me delusional for stating that America was involve. It just goes to show.

I am very skeptical about this report considering the source.

Macleans aritcle on PressTV

Most of Press TV's news reports are factually accurate. Even the appointment of William Elliott as the new RCMP commissioner is covered. But errors, presumably intentional, are also published. One story on the website, for example, claims that the Lebanese government is trying to convert the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp into an American military base, but provides no evidence to back up this allegation.

Press TV is funded by the Iranian government. I would not consider them to be impartial or reliable at all.

However, that does not preclude the possibility of US involvement in destabilization. I'm sure there are many of TPTB that are infuriated over their inability to draw Iran into open confrontation and their failure of the dis-information campaign they waged over the Iranian nuclear power program.

This is an ugly muddled mess and very little would surprise me.

Iran hits out at 'meddling West,' acknowledges ballot discrepancy

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran on Monday accused the West of "meddling" in its disputed presidential election even as its election authority reportedly acknowledged that the number of ballots cast in dozens of cities exceeded the number of eligible voters in those areas.

Speaking to reporters, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hasan Qashqavi alleged that foreign media organizations, such as CNN and BBC, were mouthpieces of their respective governments that were exaggerating reports of police clashes with protesters who have demonstrated daily since the June 12 race.

As i said, you dont have to listen to "presstv" ....it came right out of Bush jr's mouth that this is what we intended.

As to the poster stating we dont meddle the most....come now, really? We have had wars in more countries since WWII than ANY OTHER, thats no debate, its fact. Russia killed tens of millions, yes...but they were their own people. You know its only when you kill other peoples that you are held accountable. At any rate, america installed and supported 16 dictators around the world, overthrew many populist democratic and socialist regimes that had the support of their people, assassinated at least 2 heads of state. As to killing? We killed somewhere between 20 mil and 40 mil native americans, 2-4 million vietnamese, 500000 laosians, 250000 cambodians (all three in "peacekeeping actions"), 600000 japanese women and children (just with 2 bombs, not counting the ground war), 500000 philipinos, and the list goes on and on.

It still surprises me to see how well American propaganda works . . .
- in America.

How The US armed Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons


A 1994 US Senate report revealed that US companies were licenced by the commerce department to export a “witch's brew” of biological and chemical materials, including bacillus anthracis (which causes anthrax) and clostridium botulinum (the source of botulism). The American Type Culture Collection made 70 shipments of the anthrax bug and other pathogenic agents.

The report also noted that US exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment. US firms supplied advanced and specialised computers, lasers, testing and analysing equipment. Among the better-known companies were Hewlett Packard, Unisys, Data General and Honeywell.
. . . . . . . .

On March 16, 1988, Iraqi forces launched a poison gas attack on the Iraqi Kurdish village of Halabja, killing 5000 people (Using "crop-spraying" helicopters obtained from the US.) While that attack is today being touted by senior US officials as one of the main reasons why Hussein must now be “taken out”, at the time Washington's response to the atrocity was much more relaxed.

Just four months later, Washington stood by as the US giant Bechtel corporation won the contract to build a huge petrochemical plant that would give the Hussein regime the capacity to generate chemical weapons.

On September 8, 1988, the US Senate passed the Prevention of Genocide Act, which would have imposed sanctions on the Hussein regime. Immediately, the Reagan administration announced its opposition to the bill, calling it “premature”. The White House used its influence to stall the bill in the House of Representatives. When Congress did eventually pass the bill, the White House did not implement it.

America interferes in other countries whenever its leaders see any benefit to themselves.

America put Saddam into power, just as it put the theocracy in Iran into power.

America encouraged the war between Iran and Iraq in order to weaken both and make it easier to later take over the Middle East.

America armed Saddam, even providing him with precursers for chemical weapons, training for Iraq in making them and equipment for making and distributing.

America was happy to make money out of Saddam gassing the Kurds.

When Saddam's usefulness was over, America happily stabbed him in the back and destroyed the civilised, Westernised society he had built up.

See, this is why history is so important. Without true understanding of history, its impossible to understand or make judgements about what is going on now. Further, this is why so many americans are easy to mislead....almost none of them know anything about history. Its not taught in schools, it must be researched individually. Did we support bin laden? Yes we did. It bites us on the behind, and now hes public enemy number 1. Did we support saddam? yes we did. Did we foment discord in iran and overthrow their duly elected leader? yes we did. Did we provide arms to both Iran and Iraq during their war, and push iraq to invade iran? yes we did. Did we give saddam the tacit go ahead for his taking of kuwait? yes we did. All of these things are very indicative of the spirit of our support, which we often withdraw right at the moment it leaves our erstwhile allies in an untenable spot....and no wonder they lash back.

This isnt about hating america. Its about making our country take responsibility for its dishonesty, and plotting a new course for transparency, honor, and integrity. I see many people here that support the US's use of subterfuge and deception if they feel the "cause is just"....the problem is that this displays a lack of integrity, and destroys our credibility. No one feels secure when dealing with us now, and its difficult to get other countries to trust us even when we are being genuine (not that this occurs often). And like any relationship....trust, once destroyed, is one of the hardest things to restore, and there will always be doubt.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by rogue1
Well, the knowledge that precursors were supplied by the Germans and the Fench built the facility at Samarra has been known since before GF1. But you would have to be completely naive to think Reagan and his various departments didn't know about it and what's more condone it. Back then it was defeat Iran at any price for embarrassing America.

I see, so even though it is actually a fact that the WMD that Saddam used agaisnt the Kurds were supplied by the Germans, it is still ok to bash and blame the U.S. for what Germany did?...

Because the U.S. didn't start a war with the Germans for them supplying Saddam's regime during the 80s, it doesn't mean it was the fault of the U.S.

You are too naive to think your made up excuse gives a right to keep on blaming the U.S. for somehting the Germans did.

Anyway, what I was trying to point out is that despite some people, and even Americans in the Left claiming the U.S. is behind every problem in the world, the fact is that this is not true, and what the Iranians are doing is a choice which the IRANIANS are making...

What - ummmmmm - your hillarious.
Thats just brilliant - whats even better is someone has posted subsequent to another of your FACTS and totally destroyed your assertion. Care to elaborate on this - or do you still not "believe in books".....

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Zerbst


The US is estimated to have caused between 20 and 30 million deaths since 1945!! Exactly what other country do you think can account for even half that? You my friend need to take a better look into history and your knowledge, or lack, of it!

Stalin's Purges

Under the dictatorship of Joseph Stalin, tens of millions of ordinary individuals were executed or imprisoned in labour camps that were little more than death camps. Perceived political orientation was the key variable in these mass atrocities. But gender played an important role, and in many respects the Purge period of Soviet history can be considered the worst gendercide of the twentieth century.

Im not sure of the purpose of this response - the Gulag Archipelago is one of the greatest works ever written - I doubt very much you have read it - either way there is no doubt they were horrendous, as were the mass starvations in the Ukraine - however these of these human tragedies comes close to the maelstrom of US global genocide - so why post it ?

The reality is that the US has actually been overtly and covertly involved in WELL over 170 foreign engagements since the end of the second world war - Chalmers Johnson - "Nemesis" and "Blow Back".

True numbers would be far above 30 million - there are currently 5 million missing in Iraq - no casualties are recorded for non servicemen in the US military and 70% of all personell are non military - you don't even count your own dead - what sort of country are you ?

The point is - THE USSR was never claiming the kind of benevolent status the US does - the hypocracy and underhandedness of the US slaughter is what makes it so vile.

Ahahaha yes I'm sure the good guys in Iran are the unelected religious officials. Yes I'm sure their religious figure heads are the GOOD guys yet the Pope and Catholic officials and anyone who believes in God in America are the whackos and cant' be trusted and behind all the conspiracies from making up Jesus to stealing from other ancient religions. How ridiculous.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Ahahaha yes I'm sure the good guys in Iran are the unelected religious officials. Yes I'm sure their religious figure heads are the GOOD guys yet the Pope and Catholic officials and anyone who believes in God in America are the whackos and cant' be trusted and behind all the conspiracies from making up Jesus to stealing from other ancient religions. How ridiculous.

No thats not the case - no one is saying that - you are simply trying to polarise the issue into good versus evil, that for anyone who qeustions the official mainstream story must be saying the social system in Iran is good - not at all.

We are simply putting forward the truth that America uses every trick in the book in order to maintain its lifestyle and luxurious position - post of these methods require the collaboration of other countries and their leaders to hand over their resources cheaply and for personal benefit and their domestic populations detriment - in fact this is exactly what happens.

cheers,


[edit on 22-6-2009 by audas]

I guess im proud of america,becuse it seems from all the post we must be the center of the world,and we must be the instigaters behind everything.We must be all powerful and the world u live in must have been made by the u.s.a.,although oi see it from a diffrent perspective ,ill tke the "capital of the world" perspective as a compliment as well.
Theres one simple fact,Who do you want to rule the world,there will never be a non "superpower",or non "capital" of earth.If the usa fails and burns right now some other country will take over the power vacum,its what humans do.So i propose to all you what country on earth now is the one you want to run the world,becuse you DO HAVE to pick.We can let china be the new world leader, or the soviets, hell lets let africa be the new capital,good as any ya?
Im glad i have this computer to type this on, and a big screen tv,heck im glade for most of the things america has provided me with,i dont think i would want anyone else running s??t,but seems the only way people will get off americas a??.
Also all the talk of americas insiteing riots,doing covert operations in other countrys,i know for a fact there are many countrys doing the same in america,i also know that religions have the freedom to come to america and practice and convert people.I also know that other countrys have people recruiting americans for terrorist activitys,Seems like it would behoove us to do the same.Unless all the folks on the street of iran are americans then i say let them fight for what they belive in and i back them in there endevor no matter who will win in the end.