That's good to hear, maybe if we keep with the proposed projects for managing resources on reducing impact, we'll see more results like this.

It doesn't seem that a moth changing colors is evolution, espeically when it's the same type of moth.

Didnt it change back to white a long time ago?

Is it just that we are noticing it now?

Originally posted by octotom
It doesn't seem that a moth changing colors is evolution, espeically when it's the same type of moth.

It's natural selection, which is basically what evolution is. The white moths became easy to pick off when the trees became darkened by pollution.
As the pollution was reduced, and the trees regained their healthy color, the darker moths were picked off.
Survival of the fittest.

Two things from this thread:

1) Well, Creation clearly isn't fact. I already knew that, but this goes a long way into proving it.

2) Pollution is being reduced! White lichens that the moths feed on/depend on for camouflage are, well, WHITE AGAIN!

Big whoop!!!

That moth demonstration is utter crap, and one of the most lame exhibits ever presented, appealing only to the lame of mind.

As factories during this industrialization period gradually turned the surrounding environment darker, the lighter colored moths stood out more against a dark background and were more easily picked off.

The darker moths, more concealed, progressed.

The moths didn't change color.

The backgrounds did, and this "highlighting" of the lighter moths contributed to their lesser survival.

Had somehow this been reversed and everything got a white powdered coating, the dark moths would have been reduced in population as they would have stood out to predators.

The only changing of color was of the backgrounds.

It took a desperate dummy to put that display together.

That's the problem with academics. They need to get their asses out in the world and see how it really works.

I've always been of the opinion that while natural selection may occur in some instances, it's by no means the only way that life evolves. Evolution may have many mechanisms that it uses, from natural selection to intelligent design (i.e. a creator [divine or otherwise] selecting the traits which survive).

It's surprising and mildly disappointing that natural selection still needs to justify itself to certain people. It was recognised before Darwin and has since been demonstrated and accepted by science. I understand there's an ongoing debate in the States, but the rest of the Western world (if they have an opinion on it-most folk don't care) just accepts it. Naturally, the only person I know that disagrees with natural selection is a professed mormon, but they're still waiting for proof that Jesus invented concrete in America

nature is beauty and ever changing , we all adapt to changing circumstances.

Creationist agree that changes within a kind occur. Evolutionist make the jump in faith that this means that species turn into other species. For example a wolf, and a poodle are both different KIND of dogs, but they will never become a another KIND of animal.

Originally posted by dooper
That moth demonstration is utter crap, and one of the most lame exhibits ever presented, appealing only to the lame of mind.

...

The moths didn't change color.

...

The only changing of color was of the backgrounds.

Did you actually think people are saying the moths changed color during their lifetimes? That by some miraculous event, as the pollution began to build up all of the white moths suddenly started to turn back? The moths very much DID change color, just over the course of generations.

What you are describing (the moths giving birth to more black moths as the backgrounds changed color) is the essential basis of natural selection, and on a grander scale evolution. When one species (moths for example) starts to adapt to their environment, they take on new traits (such as changing color). Eventually the moths take on so many new traits (due to changes in environment, sexual selection, or natural advantage) that they become an entirely new species, and are no longer reproductively viable with other species of moths, due to the growing differences in their DNA. The process is extremely slow and takes place over thousands or millions of generations, which explains why life-on-earth has been evolving for billions of years to reach the state it's in now.

There is not some 'grand mystery' to evolution, you described the process in your own post right after you called it "utter crap", which is pretty silly.

It seems to me that evolution-deniers either

a.) don't understand evolution and thus purport that it is impossible

b.) refuse to understand evolution due to religious belief and thus purport that it is impossible

or,

c.) perfectly understand evolution (as you demonstrated in your post), yet still purport that it is impossible.


Do you honestly believe all of the species that exist on earth today magically appeared as they are now, and that the entire fossil record and all of the transition species and common ancestors that we have discovered are complete fabrications?