Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by helen670
Hi moo/ I on my own dont have authority.
I am fully aware of this, in fact you have no authority at all, you may be aware that the authority of the judeochristian church was past on to peter.
Eventually this authority was to become that of the bishop of Rome.
Am I to assume by your lauding of the great fathers of orthodoxy that you are a catholic ?
I dont even trust in myself to read the scriptures and intepret them the way they are! The early Church Great Fathers of Orthodoxy did that already! I
trust in their word because unlike myself am not worthy of such knowledge and Wisdom!
It is nice to see a christian admit she cannot think for herself, this is a refreshing change.
Great I now know where you stand, you believe something because someone else tells you to.
Nevertheless Helen, the problem that was posed earlier was in relation to the location of gods kingdom. As i recall you and another poster were at
odds about this.
You may recall that this is what jesus had to say in relation to the matter -- "if those who lead you say to you, "look the kingdom is in the
sky", then the birds will arrive there before you. If they say to you, "It is in the sea", then, the fish will arrive before you. "What you
look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it'" "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying, "Here it
is" or "There it is". Rather, the kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it" "----- the kingdom is inside of
you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the sons of the living
father. But if you will not know yourselves then you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are the poverty
Are you Helen, claiming -
(A) You disagree with jesus ?
(B) You don't believe jesus said that ?
(C) You accept it but because it conflicts to what you proselytizing earlier, you can't admit it.
No need to bang on about crystal balls and that, a simple A,B or C will do for the moment thanks.
Hi moo/
Eventually this authority was to become that of the bishop of Rome.
Really?
I thought it was upon this Rock you will build a church?
Its like having a judge and the jury....One is the Judge but cannot on his OWN act but with all the remaining!
Authourity was given to all 12 apostles!
"And He ordained twelve (Apostles), that they should be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach".
Mark 3:14
irreproachable in faith and conduct (Titus 1:7, 1 Tim 3:2 & 4:14,
"These they set before the Apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them", (Acts 6:6)..Passed on down the line to their successors!
Christ is speaking about the founding of the Church,not of Primacy amongst them!
Here we shall see that the Church is founded not on Peter alone.
In the Epistle to the Ephesians (2:20),
the Apostle Paul, addressing the Christians, says: "Ye] are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone";
While in the First Epistle to the Corinthians (3:10-11), the Apostle Paul, speaking about the creation of Christ’s Church, expresses it thus:
"According to the grace of God which is given unto me,
as a wise master-builder,
I have laid the foundation,
and another buildeth thereon.
But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no may lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ."....Only Christ Himself as the God head!
Further .....The history of the Apostolic Council (Acts, Chapter 15) speaks especially clearly against the supremacy of the Apostle Peter alone.
sent by the apostles ...Acts 8:14
gives an account of his actions to the apostles and the faithful ..Acts 11:4-18
listens to their objections and even denunciations ...Gal. 2:11-14
The Apostles received not only the grace of Apostleship,
but also the right to act by this grace in the Church,
directly from Jesus Christ the Saviour, and not from the Apostle Peter (Matthew 4:18-22; Mark 1:16-20; Luke 9:1-6, John 20:21-23, and many
others),
In Matthew 18:17 Authourity is within the Church...It is all,not one that acts!
First among equals to the Whole of teh Apostles on that they ALL be of one mind and of ONE faith!
Also Further.
The Lord’s words, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church",
"Peter" and "rock" as identical ?
The proper name of this apostle in Hebrew is Simon.
Jesus Christ, seeing the firmness of his faith,
gives him a new name, or, more precisely,
a nickname (as He also did with regard to James and John, calling them "Boanerges", that is, "sons of thunder" [Mark 3:17]) - Cephas in Hebrew,
Petros in Greek.
Petros in GREEK,translates to rock,in ENGLISH.
In S.Johns Apocalypse(Revelation) ALL 12 are Judges,not ONE!
...... In the Apocalypse, where the Church is compared to a city,
it says: "And the wall of the city had TWELVE foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (Revelation 21:14).
Am I to assume by your lauding of the great fathers of orthodoxy that you are a catholic ?
Catholic?
Universal?
Im Greek Orthodox.
Well the Church is Universal, as it states in the Nicene Creed....
In ''One Holy, Catholic(universal)and Apostolic Church''.
It is nice to see a christian admit she cannot think for herself, this is a refreshing change.
Yeh,right...
Of-course I think for myself....and in order to be corrected, I listen to what the Early fathers said(Gods Law)...
You mean,YOU dont follow the LAW,LAW?
You mean to tell me,that if you eg/Drink and drive and kill someone, you are not within the LAW?
You also have to follow the LAW,man's law and that's the way it is.
An action always has a REACTION!
Everyone FOLLOWS someone.
It's a fact!
Great I now know where you stand, you believe something because someone else tells you to.
Again, LAW is Law,you dont follow any LAWS?
(same as above)
Nevertheless Helen, the problem that was posed earlier was in relation to the location of gods kingdom. As i recall you and another poster were
at odds about this.
I was not at odds,I believe in that Gods Kingdom is not of This world because clearly it is Written in The New Testament...Word of God!
Are you Helen, claiming -
(A) You disagree with jesus ?
(B) You don't believe jesus said that ?
(C) You accept it but because it conflicts to what you proselytizing earlier, you can't admit it.
No need to bang on about crystal balls and that, a simple A,B or C will do for the moment thanks.
a/I never said I disagreed with Jesus...I dont recall disagreeing with Him?
I agree with what is Written in Scripture...
THE CREED (SYMBOL OF FAITH)
I believe in one God,
Father, Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible: And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only-begotten Son of God; begotten of the Father before all ages; Light from Light,
True God from True God,
begotten,
not made, of One Essence with the Father,
through Whom all things were made: Who for us men,
and for our salvation,
came down from Heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
and became Man: And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried: And He rose on the third day according to the Scriptures: And ascended into Heaven,
and sits at the right hand of the Father: And He is coming again with Glory to judge the living and the dead; And His Kingdom will have no end: And
in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord,
the Giver of the Life,
Who proceeds from the Father,
Who with the Father and the Son is equally worshipped and glorified,
Who spoke by the Prophets: And in One,
Holy,
Catholic(universal) and Apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the remission of sins.
I look for the Resurrection of the Dead; And the life of the Age to come.
Amen.
That's what I believe!
B/Jesus Said what?
C/
(C) You accept it but because it conflicts to what you proselytizing earlier, you can't admit it.
I said What I believe !
Sorry for all that,but all that was needed so that you can understand that it's not MY own beleifs, but those that were sent forth by the Lord Jesus
Christ,our God.
ICXN NIKA
helen
