Demonic Influence in the Truth Movement, page 10
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 10:17 AM by resistor
reply to post by Imago Dei


Am I the only one that thinks this whole Westboro church business is a psyop? I suppose it's possible that mental illness runs in that family, but I mean really.

reply to post by StopComplaining


Great points. I'm certainly not where I need to be, but thank God I'm not where I used to be!

When it comes to people in the media though, I think it's fair to be a bit more demanding. We know that 'the prince of the power of the air' uses the media to deceive, so we need to be vigilant there. I'll listen to people I know are beast worshippers just to get a sense of where they're trying to herd us, but it takes much discernment.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I can’t seem to find the post where someone expressed their problem with blood sacrifice, but it certainly is a difficult stumbling block to overcome. Able certainly had his problems with it, and it’s bothered me too at times. In the end it’s faith that must overcome any lack of understanding. Scripture tells us that God values faith more than sacrifice.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 08:52 PM by badmedia
Originally posted by resistor
I can’t seem to find the post where someone expressed their problem with blood sacrifice, but it certainly is a difficult stumbling block to overcome. Able certainly had his problems with it, and it’s bothered me too at times. In the end it’s faith that must overcome any lack of understanding. Scripture tells us that God values faith more than sacrifice.


That's not true at all. It's all about understanding, not replacing blind faith(acceptance) as a replacement for it.

Start out with some OT. I recommend reading the entire chapters of these books, they are really good on this topic. I'm just highlighting a bit to save space.


Psalm 111

10: The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

...

Proverbs 8

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

.

17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

Proverbs 9

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.


So, if you lack understanding, then you need to be seeking more. Replacing that with blind faith simply means you have quit seeking.

Now for Jesus:


Matthew 13

9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Jesus is asked - why do you speak in parables. And he replies that he is showing/giving understanding, so that they can hear and see. Those who hear and see are those with understanding.

By accepting things on faith, you insure you are not going to understand. How does one seek if one does not question? True knowledge is not measures on what you know, it's measured on what you don't know. Because what you do not know and the questions you ask are based on what you do know and understand, as well as realizing there is more etc.



[edit on 7/11/2009 by badmedia]


reply posted on 12-7-2009 @ 08:19 AM by resistor
reply to post by badmedia




Good post! Great scripture references, but it’s ALL about understanding? Studying to show yourself approved is important to be sure, and I’ve done my share (though it’s been a couple of decades), but the bottom line here is that we can never rise to the intellectual level of God, and so at some point faith must take over. I’m not going to post all the scriptures on faith as I’m quite sure you’re familiar with them. Yes, God wants us to ‘come, let us reason together’, but He also wants us to have faith for those things beyond our understanding. You don’t really think that the things of God are purely intellectual do you?

Abraham is a good example. He may have understood why he was asked to sacrifice his son, he may not have, the scripture is not explicit on that point. But even if he had an intellectual understanding of the reasoning involved, the emotional impact had to be devastating. Is there any question that such an act could only be (even partially) carried out through faith? Could trust in a God that would ask such a thing continue and be called anything other than faith? To even request such a thing is abhorrent to us, yet God actually allowed it to happen to His own. I don’t mind admitting that such things are beyond me, at least as long as I’m in this flesh.



reply posted on 12-7-2009 @ 08:59 AM by badmedia
reply to post by resistor


Well, part of this reality is having a limited perception and knowledge. But if the father asked me to do those things, I would tell him no. I honestly doubt at times that it is the father telling Abraham to do those things.

If the father asked me to do that, then I would tell him no, to do it himself. I see no reason why the father would need me to do such a thing.

It's just not how I know the father as being. I've never been told I must do this on faith, or I must do that on faith. Instead I've been given understanding on how/why I need to do those things, so that I can do them on my own.

I do keep a look out for understanding on why something such as that story you mention is needed, but without such understanding then I just have to say - it's not for me. If there is understanding in that, then I don't see it. If I don't see it, then in my experience it's not for me, or it's not needed by me. They were different times etc, and some of the sayings might not carry the same meaning today.

But I keep faith in that I am giving the understandings I need when I need them. I think there is a big difference between having faith that things will in the end work out and so forth and that one is following the truth/understanding, and having blind faith where we just accept things because a book or preacher says it.


Psalm 82

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.


Btw, I do not consider myself to be a Christian, and have many different opinions on things than the Christian Church. I think Christianity as an organized religion is anti-christ, based on the sacrifice of truth so that the lie may live. I find "salvation" to be found in the life of Jesus, rather than his death. Not to say that they are all "wicked", but that they are deceived. And you only need to deceive the good people.

But I certainly recognize the father within Jesus and know that he speaks the truth and gives proper understanding. I don't at all think he would be happy with the church, and I expect the church in general will have Matthew 7 read to them.

I know there are exceptions to the above, so I'm not talking about the exceptions. But the above is true in what people consider "mainstream Christianity", or the general public view of "Christians".


reply posted on 12-7-2009 @ 10:47 AM by LeoVirgo
reply to post by resistor


Hello resistor

I expressed an issue with blood sacrifices, back on page 1 was my first posts to the thread.

There are things to learn from the life in the blood. But there is something greater, which is that it is not God who believes in redemption through blood, it is a man/flesh regression that we are just now starting to pull out of. The longer time goes without a divine intervention, the more we will heal from the idea that we are here to wait on God for individual salvation why others who didnt understand dont.

The greater lesson to learn from the blood sacrifice tradition is about the greatest offering ever, between spiritual and physical-it is the offering by the Holy Spirit to fill and fatten the Earth and Heavens. Jesus himself, I believe, understood the Holy Spirits offering and realized, this is what gave him breath of life. Do I know this as fact? I claim nothing as fact. I seek natures. This is something the Spirit showed me to do in my most humbled of days. I cant prove it, but for me, this has shown me so many great things...and the main thing was learning about a pure nature. One that is not tainted by primal ways, One that is not inconsistent, One that needs no ritual of material things for redemption or awareness or thanks. This pure nature is always around us, it is within us, it is a part of our deepest core being. This nature needs no material or physical practice to be with us, to love and accept us, or to make a pack with us. The pack is a unconditional bond. No matter how much we rebuke and denies, we are a part of something Divine and Holy and this something is not of physical/flesh....but it fills and fattens flesh.

I lived a life of accepting and understanding the blood sacrifices and holy holidays for years. But, later in life, as I really began seeking a personal relation with God that I believe I was shown through a minds eye and my inner most nature, that God isnt this primal character we have accepted to be. I believe God is nameless. I believe God works through anyone that lives more for their spiritual nature then their flesh nature. This is the light that shines in the darkness.

You may try to talk with me about sacrifice, but I will tell you quoting scriptures is something I often skip over, I do not accept the Bible as a written work from God. If you want to try to explain why you understand God needing blood sacrifices, pls try to do this with speaking from your own spirit.

When one learns how loving God is (it is unlimited)-then it becomes the most saddest thing for a soul to think we have imagined our Father, our God, our Emanator, the Monad that was and is and will be....something Thee is totally not.

Do you really think God would make you and put you here for you to hand over logic and your deepest nature (which is humble love) to count on your fellow man to tell you about God and faith? Seek Gods nature, not in scriptures. You will not find one easy to anger or jealous or prideful. God is so humble that it becomes a knee jerk reaction for the individual to only kneel and bow in the same nature.

This seeking has shown me a beauty that is too bright for human perception. Truly one could get lost in living in this knowing every minute of every hour. I could not stay in such a mind set unless I could of gave up all my belongings and went into nature. That is where I could connect with Thee the easiest. I would of gave up all possessions, I would of ate a strict diet, I would of lived a monkish life-if I was to stay in this Nirvana as some would say.

I am a mother....and this is what grounded me back to the flesh. I know the Holy Spirit is ever close, and aware just as I am. I know the more I stay in that mind set though....the less flesh means to me. This is where the final step, the final mind set...becomes the question.....would you offer your life as a lesson to others. I went through what I believe to be many levels or tests....to measure my inner being, my deepest purest self. Call me mislead....call me an adversary....I am prepared and I will say that we have wronged...we have so wronged the image of what God is.

Im not saying that you yourself would call me those things or consider me an adversary...but that is what one becomes prepared for...a road that is not gratified by others.

My best to you and yours
LV

[edit on 12-7-2009 by LeoVirgo]


reply posted on 12-7-2009 @ 07:14 PM by resistor
reply to post by LeoVirgo


Thanks for taking the time to explain your beliefs LV. This is exactly the kind of interaction that makes the internet worth while. While I don't see a protracted conversation on the subject resolving our differing points of view, I do think I know just where you're coming from. My beliefs often differ from mainstream Christianity as well, but are always bible based.

God Bless,

Patrick


reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 09:02 PM by StopComplaining
reply to post by StopComplaining


I still defend Dr. Deagles Radio Show.
People need to know that

The Bible is The Word Of God
Evil exists
The Vaccines are Poison
You Can Take Legal action
D.U.M.Bs exists
Eugenics and Transhumanism exists
The Media is Mind Controlling The Population
H1N1 was made in a lab
Our Paper Money Is A Fruad
Obama is a usurper
The Elites are Bi-sexual Perverts
NAZIism still exists,
You are in charge of you own health

etc. etc.

And if they don't beleive any of these statements, Dr. Deagles show will convince you otherwise, providing you have an ear to hear.


reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 10:27 PM by badmedia
Originally posted by StopComplaining
The Bible is The Word Of God


No it is not, and that you could even think such a thing only points to the fact that you have not actually heard the father.

I'm a big fan of the bible, but you are putting the pharisees in the seat of moses when you do this.


Matthew 7

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


Scribes are the ones who write scripture. They are not the authority, the people themselves are through a personal relationship with the father who is within.

All things should be in their proper placements and you are putting a book in as a replacement for the actual word of god. There are specific events that will happen to someone along the path, and none of them are provided by the bible.

It is this blind faith in a book that turns people away from the father, because you limit the father to only a book. As you lack anything beyond that yourself, you deny of others. You neither enter, and you do not allow others to enter either.

At best the word which those who wrote the scriptures are those who heard the actual word of the father, and to settle for anything less than that yourself is just plain out foolish.

If you do not start putting things in their proper places then your house is going to fall. You are putting the roof below the foundation and vice versa. Scripture is helpful for people and should help provide understanding. It has a purpose. But if you do not put it in it's proper place, then it won't be able to do it's purpose anymore than having the foundation of a house above the roof allows the foundation to do it's purpose.

You think the father is limited to just a book? Do you think that all that has created this universe is incapable of speaking directly to people? Oh it was ok for those who wrote the books, but nobody else? Give me a break.

Are you trying to say that a personal relationship with the father amounts to nothing more than a personal book reader? That the father only cares about those who worship a book? NONSENSE!

I've about had it with those of you who don't have a clue preaching about things which they have no clue about. Using the bible and god for your own personal biases and hatred, as a tool of persecution rather than enlightenment, bondage rather than freedom, sacrifice rather than mercy, fear rather than love and ignorance/acceptance over understanding.

Better go clean your own house before you bring a broom to anothers, otherwise someone might point out yours has never been used before.


reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 03:44 PM by StopComplaining
Originally posted by badmedia
Originally posted by StopComplaining
The Bible is The Word Of God


You think the father is limited to just a book? Do you think that all that has created this universe is incapable of speaking directly to people? Oh it was ok for those who wrote the books, but nobody else? Give me a break.

Are you trying to say that a personal relationship with the father amounts to nothing more than a personal book reader? That the father only cares about those who worship a book? NONSENSE!




I did not say anything of those things, in fact the original quote is only 6 words.

The Biblical veiw is that Holy means Seperate.
The New Age veiw is that Seperate means Limited.

I have read many books in the Spiritual/Self Help section of the library the vast majority of them were deceptive, selfish, inaccurate, fantasy, immoral, some of them even promote Genocide, or Alistair Crowley. Many of them twist things so acutely that pain becomes pleasure, right becomes wrong, devestating and ultimately destructive acts become Win/Win scenario's. They teach Nihalism and Moral relativity. They teach serpent worship. They teach spiritual pride and entitlement. The Indian hindu's I have talked to teach the most devistaing form of apathy and Idolitary. Having seen the most horendous forms of suffering on earth they will say flatly "They diserve it" and smile at you.

I have Not read one of these New Age books teaches pity, to feel for anothers suffering. laughing and making light of other peoples suffering is considered to be Enlightened.

But the Bible is different, the Bible is limited to only Godly teachings. The KJV is not just a muddle of collected bogus lunatic satanic ideas adulterated and mixed together with a few good teachings, and a few facts. The KJV is seperate from all the trends and worldly teachings.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by StopComplaining]


reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 04:15 PM by StopComplaining
reply to post by badmedia


John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

There is more than one spiritual father, but only one of them is in heaven.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 10:29 PM by badmedia
reply to post by StopComplaining


So you are saying I received a serpent when I asked for a fish?


7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


That book isn't in heaven, so how can it be the word of god in heaven?

Why should I accept your book as "the word of god", over that which I already hear from within?


reply posted on 18-7-2009 @ 11:00 AM by helen670
reply to post by Grandma


Hi Grandma/Leo

The links that don't work anymore can be found ~HERE~ its called a 'mirrored' image?

Hope that helps out...

ICXC NIKA
helen


reply posted on 18-7-2009 @ 01:44 PM by Theservant
reply to post by badmedia


No one other than you can verify the voices you hear. Voices in the head could come from any source, Satan can appear as an Angel of light. The only way to verify the voices you hear is compare them to the truth of the Bible - if they are at odds in even the smallest way with the message of the Bible, or if they tell you of any future event that does not happen, then you can know that the message is not of God.

The Bible speaks the same message and has done throughout the ages. By it, we can come to know God, and test any 'spirit' against it. The Bible was and is essential as it proves beyond any doubt that God alone knows the end from the beginning. There is no other book like it.


reply posted on 18-7-2009 @ 03:53 PM by badmedia
Originally posted by Theservant
reply to post by badmedia


No one other than you can verify the voices you hear. Voices in the head could come from any source, Satan can appear as an Angel of light. The only way to verify the voices you hear is compare them to the truth of the Bible - if they are at odds in even the smallest way with the message of the Bible, or if they tell you of any future event that does not happen, then you can know that the message is not of God.

The Bible speaks the same message and has done throughout the ages. By it, we can come to know God, and test any 'spirit' against it. The Bible was and is essential as it proves beyond any doubt that God alone knows the end from the beginning. There is no other book like it.


Umm, I don't hear voices in my head and I have no use for your religion. I had a vision, which was followed by a period of learning and understanding. My experience is found in John 14.

Christianity is Satanic and has nothing to do with Jesus outside the praising of his name. You don't follow Jesus, you follow Paul and I'll have none of that thank you very much.

If I wasn't able to separate Jesus and the bible from people who believe as you do, I wouldn't speak a word of it. But I'm not going to let you define it for me. You quite honestly make me sick and saddened.



[edit on 7/18/2009 by badmedia]



reply posted on 19-7-2009 @ 11:37 AM by Theservant
Originally posted by badmedia
Originally posted by Theservant
reply to post by badmedia


No one other than you can verify the voices you hear. Voices in the head could come from any source, Satan can appear as an Angel of light. The only way to verify the voices you hear is compare them to the truth of the Bible - if they are at odds in even the smallest way with the message of the Bible, or if they tell you of any future event that does not happen, then you can know that the message is not of God.

The Bible speaks the same message and has done throughout the ages. By it, we can come to know God, and test any 'spirit' against it. The Bible was and is essential as it proves beyond any doubt that God alone knows the end from the beginning. There is no other book like it.


Umm, I don't hear voices in my head and I have no use for your religion. I had a vision, which was followed by a period of learning and understanding. My experience is found in John 14.

Christianity is Satanic and has nothing to do with Jesus outside the praising of his name. You don't follow Jesus, you follow Paul and I'll have none of that thank you very much.

If I wasn't able to separate Jesus and the bible from people who believe as you do, I wouldn't speak a word of it. But I'm not going to let you define it for me. You quite honestly make me sick and saddened.



[edit on 7/18/2009 by badmedia]


You make a lot of assumptions about me and sound quite angry. I don't follow Paul, I only follow Jesus.
You have no idea as to what I believe, and how I arrived at believing it.
I can't define your beliefs and don't feel a need to. That is precisely what the Bible is for!


reply posted on 19-7-2009 @ 08:56 PM by badmedia
Originally posted by Theservant
You make a lot of assumptions about me and sound quite angry. I don't follow Paul, I only follow Jesus.
You have no idea as to what I believe, and how I arrived at believing it.
I can't define your beliefs and don't feel a need to. That is precisely what the Bible is for!


Sorry, I don't look at people by their claims, but by their fruits/actions. Of course nobody ever looks at it as "I follow Paul", or says anything other than 'I follow Jesus", which is why I look at their fruits.

Your words say much more than you realize. You have implied so many things in just a short post.

I'm not "angry" at all. I am just sick of people such as yourself who go around claiming anything that isn't inline with a book is by default wrong. Which is in itself impossible since that book your claim to be the word of god is full of contradictions and flaws.

I have nothing against the bible, except that people put it into places of authority and make claims about it that simply aren't true. I quote the bible quite often for the wisdom and understanding it contains.

Christians - all about a personal relationship with god, but hell will come before they actually allow for it(unless of course it consists of quoting the bible). Which is kind of funny, because in the end you will take the word of a book a bunch of men handed and feed to you, over the father that you have to actually seek to find. It's just plain out sad.

eh, I'll just stop right there because I'm sure I'm wasting my time. You keep on believing god only cares about Christians and so forth. I know personally it's all a bunch of lies.


reply posted on 20-7-2009 @ 04:40 AM by StopComplaining
reply to post by badmedia


26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Is this what your refering to?

Why not give your testimony?


reply posted on 20-7-2009 @ 09:43 AM by badmedia
reply to post by StopComplaining


I have a few times before. I often feel like I'm repeating myself all the time, so try not to repeat things too often because I already feel like a broken record alot of times.

And I already did it once this morning, so I'm just going to link to that post.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

But yes, that is the verse that best explains where I got my understanding, although labels such as "holy spirit" weren't attached, and it's not like hearing a voice or words. But I do recognize it is what is called the holy spirit in function. It's just like anytime you have a question, you are given understanding on that and you learn from it. The more questions you ask, the more you gain, and as you gain in understanding it leads to more question. Still goes on today, but for about a months time period I had many many questions and that was the "peak" of it. Rare that I have or come up with new questions these days.

None of it is literal. So I can't ask what tommorows lottery numbers are going to be, or what the weather is, or when the end of the world is going to happen and expect an answer. But if I want to know why something is and such, then I am given that understanding.

In the OT, it would be proverbs 8 and 9 that explains it.
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