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Employees of Japan Finance Ministry Arrested in Italy Trying To Smuggle 134 Billion in US Treasuries

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posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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every time i call the irs they are always takeing obamas money and sending it to swiss bank accounts




posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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so whats the consenseus here? real or fake?



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Why do you think these are bearer bonds. I have seen you say this before and have yet to figure out why you say this. Nowhere (that I've seen) says these instruments were bearer bonds. All the news has been about them being U.S. Treasury bonds.


I am describing them as 'bearer' in the sense that they were not assigned to anyone, an institution, government, bank, etc. Negotiable for whoever had them. Thiss is one of the few things all reports agree on.

As denominations of this scale are always registered, and these weren't, they are de facto fakes. I doubt they even have ones with no name assignation for a measly million.

And I'm getting a bit bored repeating the same thing on two different threads now.

How I spend my Saturday night.


Mike



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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This thread is bunk.

Kennedy Bonds were NEVER created.

To the person who called them silver certificates, that is also misinformation (1 billion dollar bond silver cert.)


Think about it logically.

2 d-bags from japan carrying about over 100 BILLION in bonds in a non-diplomatic briefcase and conveniently going through a stop where they know they will be searched?

DISINFORMATION

There is an international disinformation media campaign going on right now to discredit the USA and the US Dollar, I am almost certain of it. I have given examples in the UP TO THE MINUTE market thread..



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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The police in Italy would not even have searched the suitcase of someone with diplomatic immunity.
If the police have a problem with someone with diplomatic immunity in the case of searching a suitcase they would have to have a person from that countries embassy there and he would have to give permission for the search.

If Employees of Japan Finance Ministry were transporting that amount of bonds they would have been given diplomatic passports.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by muddyhoop
 


Thank you!
This write up is especially interesting as it confirms the OP article!
All posts with links will put this mystery together.
As anyone reading this thread, and the last thread I posted knows, I believe this is a serious matter.

It is not, and I repeat that, not just two dumb men that made a big mistake, and botched a fraud.

This is a very serious matter.
From your link:


Border guards in Chiasso see plenty of smugglers and plenty of false-bottomed suitcases, but no one in the town, which straddles the Italian-Swiss frontier, had ever seen anything like this. Trussed up in front of the police in the train station were two Japanese men, and beside them a suitcase with a booty unlike any other. Concealed at the bottom of the bag were some rather incredible sheets of paper. The documents were apparently dollar-denominated US government bonds with a face value of a staggering $134bn (£81bn).

How on earth did these two men, who at first refused to identify themselves, come to be there, trying to ride the train into Switzerland carrying bonds worth more than the gross domestic product of Singapore? If the bonds were genuine, the pair would have been America's fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the UK and just behind Russia. No sooner had the story leaked out from the Italian lakes region last week than it sparked a panoply of conspiracy tales. But one resounded more than any other: that the men were agents of the Japanese finance ministry, in the country for the G8 meeting, making a surreptitious journey into Switzerland to sell off one small chunk of the massive mountain of US bonds stacked up in the Japanese Treasury vaults.


There. That is a mainstream media saying it now. Now what?




[edit on 21-6-2009 by burntheships]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Nickmare
I want to believe that the Japanese government would have had a better way to get the money where it needed to go. Don't they have a diplomatic pouch or something?

Maybe they didn't feel any other method was available that could prevent the USA from finding out what they were up to? Is it even possible to dump the bonds without the USA knowing?

If it was counterfeiters...how do they scam people into buying these? I mean, I would be pretty damn sure before buying a piece of paper some guy tells me is worth millions and millions of dollars.



There are a dozen ways the Japanese could graduate or proxy a massive cashing in of US bonds. But they would not be stupid enough to put the funds at the bottom of a suitcase. It would be impossible for the US not to know immediately something was going on when a Swiss bank or whoever called to validate them.

Scammers typically contact wealthy groups with stories of discovering the bonds but having problems due to political conflicts. They try to sell or trade them for pennies on the dollar or use them as leverage for credit or loans.

This particular attempt was poorly thought out because anyone knowledgeable would realize the magnitude would raise alarm bells everywhere.
Please tell us a few of these dozen ways that you say they could have used to sell over 100 billion in bonds at one time and not wreck the bond market. Please be precise, not just a bunch of rambling and generalizations.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by shug7272]

[edit on 21-6-2009 by shug7272]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
This thread is bunk.

Kennedy Bonds were NEVER created.

To the person who called them silver certificates, that is also misinformation (1 billion dollar bond silver cert.)


Think about it logically.

2 d-bags from japan carrying about over 100 BILLION in bonds in a non-diplomatic briefcase and conveniently going through a stop where they know they will be searched?

DISINFORMATION

There is an international disinformation media campaign going on right now to discredit the USA and the US Dollar, I am almost certain of it. I have given examples in the UP TO THE MINUTE market thread..
Honest to God your last paragraph made me laugh so hard. Why the hell would anyone need to discredit the US or the Dollar? We are up to our hat in debt, our income (GDP) to debt is disgusting, our personal citizens debt load is unbearable... I could LITERALLY go on and on and you think there is a conspiracy against us?

Thats just... well your wrong.

If anybody around the world were in the same situation the USA is in they would be laughed out of any bank they tried to borrow from. Trick is, we can print our own money and others accept it. They will no longer do so once the draw back out weighs the benefit. If you dont think that will ever happen then you are a poor student of history.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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Good...more info here.


If one looks at the pattern of holding of the US Treasury Securities, even though the US Treasury asserts that it has stopped issuing bearer securities, it has issued its securities to tax haven entities. Tax haven means that the identity of the ultimate owner is opaque. Out of the total of some 3,262 billion worth treasury securities held by foreign governments and banks as of April 2009, the amount of securities held by what the US treasury says as ‘Caribbean banking sector’ is mentioned as 205 billion and that includes Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles, Panama and from June 2006 British Virgin Islands. In none of these tax shelters the name of the real investor is ascertainable. Even the British investments into US Treasury takes place through the Isle of Man, the British tax haven. The US government has admitted that it has allowed address-less money, that is black money, into the Treasury bonds. The world of finance has nicknamed this as ‘funny money’. Is the $134.5 billion funny money then?

QED: If the $134.5 billion bonds were genuine Italy will get 40 per cent of it — that is some $54 billion — as fine from the smugglers. That would solve all its financial problems; its external and public debt will be off its balance sheet.


expressbuz

[edit on 21-6-2009 by burntheships]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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The Turner Radio Network is a complete sham.

Nuff said.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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First all the financial firms on Wall Street that has subduded, hundreds of billions lost there, then the hedgefund ponzi schemese blowing up, like Madoff and Stanford the most notable but there are even more on the same scale. Then the Iraq war, a huge corruption and blackholed budget that went total wild. All this FRAUD, FISCAL THEFT and COMPLETE PHONY AIR ASSETS are denominated in us dollars, a currency backed by the Federal Reserve and ultimately YOU citizen of america, your work and contribution to GDP and your ability to eat, invent and produce and then consume even more. Good luck, you have my sympathies.

Short term solution, divine intervention or start a new war somewhere i.e creative destruction.

[edit on 2009/6/21 by reugen]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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This entire debacle is a product of a Diminishing return Nash Equilibrium.

Everyone is on this same boat, and the boat is taking on water.

Everyone depends on everyone else to survive.

Everyone wants to get off.

But if anyone tries to get off the boat, the whole think flips over, and the lone survivor has no one to depend upon for survival.

This is not a covert OP to destabilize the dollar, and I'll tell you why.

The only people in a position to destabilize the dollar are its creditors (Those who hold large denominations of dollar based, or treasury based assets.)

The only way to destabilize the dollar would be to sell those assets (which would trade for less than face value) and that would basically shoot your investment in the foot.

You would lose money on your investment by selling because that would start a panic of selling, cripling the value of the dollar.

But the value of the dollar is a house of cards that is GOING down, and what we have here is the largest countries in the world, holding their breath as best they can, in a vain attempt to salvage their investment.

The smuggling of these bonds are an attempt to get a return on investment without anyone knowing, for the purpose of getting a substantial return on an investment that technically isn't worth anything currently.

-Edrick



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by shug7272
 



You should think about it again.

There are many reasons for other countries to denounce the dollar.

Last I heard, we are still the strongest nation with the most influence in the world.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Edrick
The only way to destabilize the dollar would be to sell those assets (which would trade for less than face value) and that would basically shoot your investment in the foot.

You would lose money on your investment by selling because that would start a panic of selling, cripling the value of the dollar.

But the value of the dollar is a house of cards that is GOING down, and what we have here is the largest countries in the world, holding their breath as best they can, in a vain attempt to salvage their investment.

The smuggling of these bonds are an attempt to get a return on investment without anyone knowing, for the purpose of getting a substantial return on an investment that technically isn't worth anything currently.



Agree with parts of your overall analysis. But not your acceptance of this being a covert attempt to get some immediate return on investment. And for starters the US would know they just had $134 Billion in bonds cashed.

Argued endlessly, these bonds are demonstrably fakes, and no country would risk it's collapse by putting a good portion of it's net worth in suitcase in transit.

The difficult question on macroeconomics is what happens when everyone is going down simultaneously. There still is production and consumption, and money circulating, just less of it.

There still is a relative economic hierarchy even among the newly impoverished. They guy with a million bucks is richer than the ones with hundreds of thousands. Really not much change in status quo.

In a perverse way America is in a somewhat stronger position. Harming the US and the dollar changes the equilibrium in a way that benefits very few.

I think it's about coming to terms with the new reality. The stocks you bought are worth a lot less than you counted on. But you are afraid a sell off will reduce them to nothing.


Mike



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Sorry, but given the source of the OP, and the lack of confirmation from more reliable sources, I pretty much think this is bunk. Not to mention many things already stated: if the Japanese government wanted to dump real bonds, they would do so in a far more secure manner using diplomatic routes. Sending a couple guys with false bottomed suitcases to sneak in and cash them in isn't exactly smart, and the japanese are anything but stupid.

And for the record, Hal Turner is a waste of space. He has alot of fans amongst the extreme right wing and White Supremacists alike.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Everybody celebrate.
Print m and be merry!



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 



Agree with parts of your overall analysis. But not your acceptance of this being a covert attempt to get some immediate return on investment. And for starters the US would know they just had $134 Billion in bonds cashed.


Not if they were sold to a third party for pennies on the "Face Value" dollar.


Argued endlessly, these bonds are demonstrably fakes, and no country would risk it's collapse by putting a good portion of it's net worth in suitcase in transit.


Yeah, that is the only part that bothers me... I don't think they are fakes, because every bond has a unique number that links to a loan given to the US federal government.

IT would be easy to tell whether they were fake or not.


In a perverse way America is in a somewhat stronger position. Harming the US and the dollar changes the equilibrium in a way that benefits very few.


There are other countries that are in VERY strong economic positions, if it were not for their USD investment, and their exports TO the US.

The latter are easy to fix, the former, not so much...


I think it's about coming to terms with the new reality. The stocks you bought are worth a lot less than you counted on. But you are afraid a sell off will reduce them to nothing.


Well, considering that these nations have substantial capitol tied up in their US bonds, that could be used for helping their economies... it makes sence that they would want to cash them, without the investment panic that could hurt their economy if the cashing became public.

-Edrick



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


Well, there is no reason to sell these at .01 on the dollar because you can cash them for face value right now.

These are fake bc

#1 - kennedy bonds never have existed

#2 - there is no reason to carry them in anything else buy a diplomatic briefcase because of these reasons

#3 - do you think people carrying BILLIONS of US DOLLARS would be riding public transportation?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
there is no reason to sell these at .01 on the dollar because you can cash them for face value right now.

These are fake bc




You got it. Except there are cases where conmen have been able to convince people these are real but can't be deposited because of political problems from the past.

In 2008 a woman in Texas was charged with trying to extract money using the same type of fake paperwork. She even had photos of them in a Switzerland safety deposit box.

She was from the Philippines originally, where these reportedly originate.

There are places online where people are trying to hunt down the swindlers who've suckered them.

Media has been trying to generate a hysteria story out of a couple of inept crooks getting busted.

And there are suckers buying into it, natch.


Mike



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