It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Why do you think these are bearer bonds. I have seen you say this before and have yet to figure out why you say this. Nowhere (that I've seen) says these instruments were bearer bonds. All the news has been about them being U.S. Treasury bonds.
Border guards in Chiasso see plenty of smugglers and plenty of false-bottomed suitcases, but no one in the town, which straddles the Italian-Swiss frontier, had ever seen anything like this. Trussed up in front of the police in the train station were two Japanese men, and beside them a suitcase with a booty unlike any other. Concealed at the bottom of the bag were some rather incredible sheets of paper. The documents were apparently dollar-denominated US government bonds with a face value of a staggering $134bn (£81bn).
How on earth did these two men, who at first refused to identify themselves, come to be there, trying to ride the train into Switzerland carrying bonds worth more than the gross domestic product of Singapore? If the bonds were genuine, the pair would have been America's fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the UK and just behind Russia. No sooner had the story leaked out from the Italian lakes region last week than it sparked a panoply of conspiracy tales. But one resounded more than any other: that the men were agents of the Japanese finance ministry, in the country for the G8 meeting, making a surreptitious journey into Switzerland to sell off one small chunk of the massive mountain of US bonds stacked up in the Japanese Treasury vaults.
Please tell us a few of these dozen ways that you say they could have used to sell over 100 billion in bonds at one time and not wreck the bond market. Please be precise, not just a bunch of rambling and generalizations.
Originally posted by mmiichael
Originally posted by Nickmare
I want to believe that the Japanese government would have had a better way to get the money where it needed to go. Don't they have a diplomatic pouch or something?
Maybe they didn't feel any other method was available that could prevent the USA from finding out what they were up to? Is it even possible to dump the bonds without the USA knowing?
If it was counterfeiters...how do they scam people into buying these? I mean, I would be pretty damn sure before buying a piece of paper some guy tells me is worth millions and millions of dollars.
There are a dozen ways the Japanese could graduate or proxy a massive cashing in of US bonds. But they would not be stupid enough to put the funds at the bottom of a suitcase. It would be impossible for the US not to know immediately something was going on when a Swiss bank or whoever called to validate them.
Scammers typically contact wealthy groups with stories of discovering the bonds but having problems due to political conflicts. They try to sell or trade them for pennies on the dollar or use them as leverage for credit or loans.
This particular attempt was poorly thought out because anyone knowledgeable would realize the magnitude would raise alarm bells everywhere.
Honest to God your last paragraph made me laugh so hard. Why the hell would anyone need to discredit the US or the Dollar? We are up to our hat in debt, our income (GDP) to debt is disgusting, our personal citizens debt load is unbearable... I could LITERALLY go on and on and you think there is a conspiracy against us?
Originally posted by GreenBicMan
This thread is bunk.
Kennedy Bonds were NEVER created.
To the person who called them silver certificates, that is also misinformation (1 billion dollar bond silver cert.)
Think about it logically.
2 d-bags from japan carrying about over 100 BILLION in bonds in a non-diplomatic briefcase and conveniently going through a stop where they know they will be searched?
There is an international disinformation media campaign going on right now to discredit the USA and the US Dollar, I am almost certain of it. I have given examples in the UP TO THE MINUTE market thread..
If one looks at the pattern of holding of the US Treasury Securities, even though the US Treasury asserts that it has stopped issuing bearer securities, it has issued its securities to tax haven entities. Tax haven means that the identity of the ultimate owner is opaque. Out of the total of some 3,262 billion worth treasury securities held by foreign governments and banks as of April 2009, the amount of securities held by what the US treasury says as ‘Caribbean banking sector’ is mentioned as 205 billion and that includes Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles, Panama and from June 2006 British Virgin Islands. In none of these tax shelters the name of the real investor is ascertainable. Even the British investments into US Treasury takes place through the Isle of Man, the British tax haven. The US government has admitted that it has allowed address-less money, that is black money, into the Treasury bonds. The world of finance has nicknamed this as ‘funny money’. Is the $134.5 billion funny money then?
QED: If the $134.5 billion bonds were genuine Italy will get 40 per cent of it — that is some $54 billion — as fine from the smugglers. That would solve all its financial problems; its external and public debt will be off its balance sheet.
Originally posted by Edrick
The only way to destabilize the dollar would be to sell those assets (which would trade for less than face value) and that would basically shoot your investment in the foot.
You would lose money on your investment by selling because that would start a panic of selling, cripling the value of the dollar.
But the value of the dollar is a house of cards that is GOING down, and what we have here is the largest countries in the world, holding their breath as best they can, in a vain attempt to salvage their investment.
The smuggling of these bonds are an attempt to get a return on investment without anyone knowing, for the purpose of getting a substantial return on an investment that technically isn't worth anything currently.
Agree with parts of your overall analysis. But not your acceptance of this being a covert attempt to get some immediate return on investment. And for starters the US would know they just had $134 Billion in bonds cashed.
Argued endlessly, these bonds are demonstrably fakes, and no country would risk it's collapse by putting a good portion of it's net worth in suitcase in transit.
In a perverse way America is in a somewhat stronger position. Harming the US and the dollar changes the equilibrium in a way that benefits very few.
I think it's about coming to terms with the new reality. The stocks you bought are worth a lot less than you counted on. But you are afraid a sell off will reduce them to nothing.
Originally posted by GreenBicMan
there is no reason to sell these at .01 on the dollar because you can cash them for face value right now.
These are fake bc