Alien Word Play

Legit, I had never seen that.

The whole point I was making was that for most "seeing is believing" so the Human Race as far as we know has only seen 7 miles underground.

Sure we have radar, but I've never heard of any radar that would KNOW for certain what it picks up.

For example:
When a UFO is picked up on radar, the radar doesn't give a picture of the object, just that the object is in the airspace. I'm more worried about knowing WHAT the radar is seeing.

But that's very interesting to see, kinda give's more credence to the point that something COULD possibly be living underneath. At least in my crazy mind. ; )

wet rock and an underground ocean are quite different from one another.

my point regarding subterranean life is that the most nutrient-rich part of the subterranean biosphere is by far the entrances to caves. cave life tends to be very simple and doesn't have as much competition as surface life because there arent many nutrients to begin with - and the deeper you go, the less nutrients, and the fewer species. finding something intelligent extremely deep in a cave system is, in my opinion, about as likely as discovering a new species of intelligent life living in our cities and we just happened to never notice. The environment down there just doesn't have the nutrients to support large, intelligent animals.

And the "cave-man" point is not very good at all - that is really just a nickname due to the assumption that primitive man probably took shelter in caves, being common natural shelters. As in, if a large storm came, primitive men would go to the nearest cave and wait it out. In the winter, they would do the same. They didn't subsist in caves, they just used them.

Fair enough, I had just always heard that man had sort of "grown up" in and around caves and once we decided to leave the caves we began to propagate the lands on this planet.

I'm honestly not sure what is inside this planet? I can only see the outside.

Life will always ADAPT as a mode of survival.

Such as the moon would be a horrible place to live, as it's atmosphere is not supportive of life, yet man still would like to propagate the moon, and by doing so would have to ADAPT to life on the lunar surface.

If we want to do that with the moon and mars, why could another civilization not have wanted to do that previously on this planet inside it's massive cave systems?

Just a question, not saying either way, all though Jscytale I have to say that I kinda believe that someone has.

Could our society as we know it today build a civilization that could live and thrive in a sort of "cave-city"? Yes we could. So why couldn't someone else?

Originally posted by GeechQuestInfo
Fair enough, I had just always heard that man had sort of "grown up" in and around caves and once we decided to leave the caves we began to propagate the lands on this planet.

I'm honestly not sure what is inside this planet? I can only see the outside.

Life will always ADAPT as a mode of survival.

Such as the moon would be a horrible place to live, as it's atmosphere is not supportive of life, yet man still would like to propagate the moon, and by doing so would have to ADAPT to life on the lunar surface.

If we want to do that with the moon and mars, why could another civilization not have wanted to do that previously on this planet inside it's massive cave systems?

Just a question, not saying either way, all though Jscytale I have to say that I kinda believe that someone has.

Could our society as we know it today build a civilization that could live and thrive in a sort of "cave-city"? Yes we could. So why couldn't someone else?

well, like i said there is simply no reason for a species to completely doom itself by giving up the surface and moving underground - and we couldn't survive entirely in caves, there is *no way* hydroponics could feed the entire human population when there is no sunlight and are no animals to hunt.

Most Hydroponics systems are indoors, thus supply your own light. I'm just saying maybe cave dwelling is the next step in intellectual evolution.

You get sick and tired of being disturbed by the elements of the outside (mother nature) so you take your operations inside, WAY INSIDE. Perhaps thats why the "greys" are such, without much sunlight most of us would look pale and grey and brittle too. You would probably begin to shrink in size so to speak, because cave dwelling the smaller the better.

You are correct the caves are by no means full of varieties of nutrients like we have above ground, but then again I thought the "greys" were spindlly little things?

Originally posted by GeechQuestInfo
Most Hydroponics systems are indoors, thus supply your own light. I'm just saying maybe cave dwelling is the next step in intellectual evolution.

You get sick and tired of being disturbed by the elements of the outside (mother nature) so you take your operations inside, WAY INSIDE. Perhaps thats why the "greys" are such, without much sunlight most of us would look pale and grey and brittle too. You would probably begin to shrink in size so to speak, because cave dwelling the smaller the better.

You are correct the caves are by no means full of varieties of nutrients like we have above ground, but then again I thought the "greys" were spindlly little things?

right, that's my point. its far less efficient than sunlight and it takes heaps of power in a large scale - we can barely feed ourselves now, and almost all our crops don't need power plants running 24/7.

point is, you just can't sustain an entire civilization underground on the earth unless it originally evolved in that habitat. Considering how limited the habitat is, the odds of something much smarter than a blind fish evolving there are extraordinarily slim. There is no ecosystem full of predators and high energy food where an animal can develop intelligence as a survival / hunting tool and then fuel the large brain with abundant nutrients.

right, that's my point. its far less efficient than sunlight and it takes heaps of power in a large scale - we can barely feed ourselves now, and almost all our crops don't need power plants running 24/7.

Anyone who has ever grown anything hydroponically KNOWS it is extremely better than using natural sunlight. YOU control the "sun" as you can power on and off the light. YOU do not have to worry about drought, bugs, other plants contaminating a crop. YOUR yield almost doubles when using a hydro grow set up for ANY crop. YOU become mother nature. Sorry jscytale I've respected everything you've said to me but you have obviously never grown anything hydroponically as opposed to organically.

point is, you just can't sustain an entire civilization underground on the earth unless it originally evolved in that habitat.

So again, do you not support colonizing the moon or mars? There are WAY less abundant resources on those 2 places than would be found in a cave on Earth. And honestly, wheter you support it or not we can both agree that the governments of this planet are coming up with ways of how humans could colonize those planets.

Seems A LOT easier to form a civilization in a cave, at least to me, but we can agree to disagree

[edit on 22-6-2009 by GeechQuestInfo]

Originally posted by GeechQuestInfo

Anyone who has ever grown anything hydroponically KNOWS it is extremely better than using natural sunlight. YOU control the "sun" as you can power on and off the light. YOU do not have to worry about drought, bugs, other plants contaminating a crop. YOUR yield almost doubles when using a hydro grow set up for ANY crop. YOU become mother nature. Sorry jscytale I've respected everything you've said to me but you have obviously never grown anything hydroponically as opposed to organically.

you're missing the point. in order to feed the entire species using entirely hydroponically grown plants, you need a *ridiculous* amount of electricity. Oh so much more than we use right now. It would be logistically impossible to sustain pure hydroponics as the only means of food for the entire human race - simply impossible. Energy is *not* unlimited.

So again, do you not support colonizing the moon or mars? There are WAY less abundant resources on those 2 places than would be found in a cave on Earth. And honestly, wheter you support it or not we can both agree that the governments of this planet are coming up with ways of how humans could colonize those planets.

Seems A LOT easier to form a civilization in a cave, at least to me, but we can agree to disagree

[edit on 22-6-2009 by GeechQuestInfo]

*Colonizing* is one thing. Colonizing the moon or mars would be first off, a small scale endeavor (it would be a small group of people as opposed to the *entire species*) and it is not self-sustainable. A colony would need constant shipments from Earth, and would never be truly self-sustainable until the planet was terraformed, which is a process that could take anywhere from tens of thousands of years to millions.

It would be impossible to move to subterranean life and completely abandon the surface without leaving a trace. You would need access to the surface at the *very* least for food, not to mention the caverns would need such ridiculously huge and complex ventilation systems to support a large population that it would be plainly obvious that a large group of breathing, intelligent animals lived underground.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by JScytale]

a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

Great thread