It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

France considering ban on burqas, spokesman says

page: 8
12
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:29 AM
link   
Great post, thanks OP


I agree with the original sentiment of this thread - government should NEVER attempt to interfere with, or control, what people wear. No matter what.




posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:51 PM
link   
reply to post by tezzajw
 



I don't understand your problem?
Was this girl gang-raped because she didn't wear a burqa?


Of course you don't, and you never will be able to understand someone having a problem with a 15 yr old girl being gang raped by eighteen boys for two months, that is a very sad thing.



You must have missed the part in your article where they stated that the root of the violence was the ghetto culture amongst the poor teenagers.


You must have missed the part of the article that stated that these girls were being raped because of the way they were dressed ( so in your twisted way of thinking it's wrong for the government to attempt to place rules on what people may or my not wear, but it's ok for men and boys to force women to dress in a certain style, or be raped if they don't comply
, that's scary), or the fact that they dared to wear makeup, or go on dates.



The French authorities need to be vigilant and swift to act when any woman, not just a muslim women, is a victim of violence.


You are well aware of the fact that this is happening to all women (not just Muslim women) that these men deem as whores because they do not cover their bodies from head to toe, as if you gave a damn. After all it's not a problem as long as they go to jail right.



I don't see what your problem is. She was raped and the crime was reported to the police. The offenders were sentenced to prison - seven years.


Of course you don't because you don't see a problem with the fact that she was raped in the first place. You don't see a problem with a lot of things do you. When i came across you in a thread last year i thought there was something wrong, but i passed it off as trolling. I have since seen plenty of twisted comments from you in quite a few threads, and i now see it's not trolling. You may do better to keep certain things in the closet, like this.....



If all he did was jerk off to the videos in private at a later time, is that so bad?


For cripes sake man you are talking about a man doing that while watching a video of a CHILD !!! You sir are morally deficient.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by chise61
Of course you don't, and you never will be able to understand someone having a problem with a 15 yr old girl being gang raped by eighteen boys for two months, that is a very sad thing.

Of course it's sad and wrong. chise61, at what point did I ever say it was right? Please quote me.

What gives you the right to assume that you know what I am thinking? You couldn't be more far off base if you tried. What you are doing is trying to start a crusade, whipped up by your own frenzy, because I disagree with you about banning burqas. Be very careful how you do this, chise61, as it will only continue to look worse for you.



You are well aware of the fact that this is happening to all women (not just Muslim women) that these men deem as whores because they do not cover their bodies from head to toe, as if you gave a damn.

You might want to think about what you're trying to achieve with your crusade. The thread is about FRANCE considering banning burqas and you've used it as a platform to launch into every issue where women of all nations are being abused for all different reasons.

I read a short article in today's newspaper that Obama is not considering banning the burqa in the USA. For once, I agree with a politician. He said "we are not going to tell people what to wear."



Of course you don't because you don't see a problem with the fact that she was raped in the first place.

See that's the kind of misguided and utterly incorrect statement that I would expect from someone on a blind crusade.

For the sake of your credibility, please do not try and judge what I think is right and wrong. Any rape is a crime and should not happen. From your previous source, I posted a quote that stated the root of the problem is the ghetto culture. I can see why she was raped and I despise it as much as you do. Rapists need to be punished. It is a violation of rights to rape anyone or abuse anyone. I don't how the hell you think that I condone this, but you're wrong and you owe me an apology.

Further guesswork on your part about my thoughts and intentions should be avoided, as you'll only make yourself look really silly.



You don't see a problem with a lot of things do you. When i came across you in a thread last year i thought there was something wrong, but i passed it off as trolling.

The moral crusader continues... what exactly is it that I do? Are you trying to extrapolate my real world actions, based on a few typed words on an internet forum?

You have no idea who I am or what I do and yet, you're trying to piece together a profile of what I do? Be very careful with your insinuations and accusations about me, chise61. I am not the topic of this thread. The topic is FRANCE banning burqas - remember? It may pay you to read the term and conditions of this website to remind yourself to stay on target.

Obama agees with me. The most powerful man on Earth agrees with me, yet you're mounting a crusade against me. Be very careful, chise61.



I have since seen plenty of twisted comments from you in quite a few threads, and i now see it's not trolling. You may do better to keep certain things in the closet, like this.....


If all he did was jerk off to the videos in private at a later time, is that so bad?

For cripes sake man you are talking about a man doing that while watching a video of a CHILD !!! You sir are morally deficient.

Off topic. If you like, bump the thread and we'll discuss it there.

MODS, clearly chise61 is trying to drag this thread off topic, perhaps a little word in her ear may settle her down?

The thread is about FRANCE banning burqas. Obama agrees with me, in that the USA will not tell people what to wear. For once I have a powerful ally.

Resist the fashion police or all rights are gone.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:46 AM
link   
reply to post by tezzajw
 


You didn't have to say it was right, this said it all.....



I don't understand your problem?




I don't see what your problem is. She was raped and the crime was reported to the police. The offenders were sentenced to prison - seven years.


And my referrence to it being sad was concerning your condesending attitude and lack of understanding toward rape victims, which i'm quite sure that you are well aware of.

I haven't assumed anything, you've made it very clear with your statements.



The thread is about FRANCE considering banning burqas and you've used it as a platform to launch into every issue where women of all nations are being abused for all different reasons.


Oh please, you know i have done no such thing. Every example i gave was concerning women and girls being raped because they were not dressed the way these men think they should. Just as you know , i did say it twice, that my intent was to show you that despite what you claim all of these women do not wear the burqas by choice, but rather because they fear the reprocussions of not wearing them, reprocussions such as being gang raped.

I have no need to judge what you think is right and wrong, you have made it clear. You can attempt to twist it all you want, but it's right there where everyone can see, here let me show you again.....



I don't see what your problem is. She was raped and the crime was reported to the police. The offenders were sentenced to prison - seven years.


You see, you said it yourself, you see no problem, your words, not mine.



Obama agees with me. The most powerful man on Earth agrees with me, yet you're mounting a crusade against me. Be very careful, chise61.



Obama ???? The most powerful man on earth
First i am mounting no crusade against you, second i doubt that Obama would give a rat's behind, third you may want to be careful as that sounds ominously like a threat.



The thread is about FRANCE banning burqas. Obama agrees with me, in that the USA will not tell people what to wear. For once I have a powerful ally.


The thread is about France remember, the US, and Obama have nothing to do with it
And don't be too sure, they're already making laws about guys wearin their pants below their butts and showin their underwear





MODS, clearly chise61 is trying to drag this thread off topic, perhaps a little word in her ear may settle her down?


I never attempted to drag the thread off topic, but if you feel that i have violated the T&C's of the site and feel it necessary to call in the Mods by all means do so. If i have violated any of the T&C's, even if done unintentionally, then my post, should be removed by the Mods, as that is why they are here.

Off Topic: BTW mind games don't work on me.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 05:54 AM
link   
reply to post by chise61
 


Chise I see where you're coming from, and I don't care if women walked around naked not one of them deserves any comeback for what they wear, specially not something so violent and downright disturbing.

I give the frenchies some grief on a different thread the other day but now.. well I'll give them their due, hopefully they stick to their guns on this.

One good thing has definitely come of it, there's debates starting in a few of our papers today regarding the burka ban and one on The Sun (it's a tabloid but who cares
) saying should we ban them.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 06:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by chise61
You didn't have to say it was right, this said it all.....

tezzajw
I don't understand your problem?


Your rush to judge me leaves you short of understanding what is written. I don't understand your problem, chise61. I do understand their problem. The women in France, living in the ghettos are finding it tough, being abused by men.

I don't understand your problem trying to turn this thread into a moral crusade about women in general.


chise61
And my referrence to it being sad was concerning your condesending attitude and lack of understanding toward rape victims, which i'm quite sure that you are well aware of.

Again, your rush to judge me leaves you short of understanding what is written. You may persist in inventing your off-topic nonsense all that you like. I never blame a victim, ever. They deserve help and the criminals deserve to be punished.


chise61
Oh please, you know i have done no such thing. Every example i gave was concerning women and girls being raped because they were not dressed the way these men think they should.

You listed a handful of cases and you tried to generalise it to an entire population. Statistically, your evidence isn't valid. The report that you linked gave the real reason why those women were abused - they live in ghettos.


chise61
Obama ???? The most powerful man on earth
First i am mounting no crusade against you, second i doubt that Obama would give a rat's behind, third you may want to be careful as that sounds ominously like a threat.

Ha! A threat. You've got to be kidding me. You must skip over the parts that you don't want to read in a thread or post. I can't stand politicans anymore than I can stand annonymous internet posters making wild accusations about me. The whole Obama reference was a joke. I don't use smileys. Some people are intelligent enough to key on to my humour. Obviously you missed the joke.


Off Topic: BTW mind games don't work on me.

They sure as hell don't work on me either. I noticed that you refrained from pressing a couple of your issues, so you must have got the message. Stick to FRANCE in this thread and you'll be fine. Thanks for playing so far...



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 06:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by ItsallCrazy
Chise I see where you're coming from, and I don't care if women walked around naked not one of them deserves any comeback for what they wear, specially not something so violent and downright disturbing.

Exactly. I agree.

So if they choose to wear a burqa, like many do - they do not deserve any comeback. They should not be persecuted by proposed FRENCH laws for wanting to wear a burqa.

Similarly, if they choose to wear a bikini at the beach, that's their right to do so.

This is the problem with fashion police:
Bare too much skin (naked) and they want laws against it.
Bare too little skin (burqas) and they want laws against it.

Since when do women have to dress like Goldilocks - wearing just the right amount of clothing - to conform to the law?



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 12:08 PM
link   
reply to post by tezzajw
 



Stick to FRANCE


Is that all you got? Sorry pal, but this topic concerns the entire planet. Your little mind scrambling to justify the suppression of women leaves clues everywhere. Chise nailed you dead on IMO.

Wearing a burqa is no different from a woman walking around chained. It is cruel, and degrading. Trot it out on Halloween, but for the rest of the year, sorry, it is abuse, pure and simple. Your "stick to France" argument is pathetic.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:04 PM
link   
reply to post by ItsallCrazy
 


I also hope they stick to their guns, i also hope they ban them. For me it is simply because of the fact that most of these women don't wear them because they choose to, but rather because they are forced to. For the women that truely wear them by choice i support them and their right to wear what they choose to wear.

I do however believe that they should be banned to help free the women and girls that are forced to wear them or suffer the reprocussions that are often so severe and inhumane. How terrible it must be for these women to be forced to wear what men (who often are nothing more than neighbors and strangers that believe they are entitled to control all women, simply because they are men) think is appropriate for them to wear lest they be beaten, raped, gang raped and sometimes murdered .




[edit on 6/24/2009 by chise61]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 05:13 PM
link   
reply to post by tezzajw
 



I don't understand your problem trying to turn this thread into a moral crusade about women in general.



If i was attempting to turn this thread into a moral crusade about women in general I would have given examples of all the different crimes committed against women all around the world. I didn't, i gave specific examples of women that are being Raped and murdered by Muslim men that believe that these women deserve to be treated this way simply because of the manner in which they choose to dress. You appear to be outraged by a government attempting to control what women wear, however you don't appear to be just as outraged by Muslim men that use such a violent dispicible way to do the exact same thing that you say the government should not be allowed to do.




You listed a handful of cases and you tried to generalise it to an entire population. Statistically, your evidence isn't valid. The report that you linked gave the real reason why those women were abused - they live in ghettos.



I listed a "handful" of cases because to list all of them would not be feasible in the constraints of this forum, nor in the constraints of certain minds. I never attempted to generalize it to an entire population, rather to point out the real consequences these women face for refusing to dress in the manner that these men deem appropriate.

The evidence is valid. The links that i provided did in fact give the real reason why they are abused (they way they dress, the fact that they dare to wear makeup, go on dates, and defy these men) you simply chose to ignore that fact.

Are you implying that the men that live in "ghettos" are the only men that abuse women ?



I noticed that you refrained from pressing a couple of your issues, so you must have got the message. Stick to FRANCE in this thread and you'll be fine. Thanks for playing so far...


I have refrained because i know when it is a waste of time to debate a point with a closed mind, and no other reason.

That's the problem i haven't been playing at anything. This may be some kind of game for you, but it isn't for me it is a very serious issue for many, many women as well as their male family members that don't subscribe to this antiquated, controlling, and degrading way of thinking.



The whole Obama reference was a joke. I don't use smileys. Some people are intelligent enough to key on to my humour. Obviously you missed the joke.


Oh i have the perfect answer for you on this one, your own words again. Here ya go....



Humour doesn't always translate well across a computer screen.


From this post....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Though i may not be done with this thread, i am done talking with you. I have addressed everything that needs to be addressed. I can not debate in an enviroment of twisted words, mind games, and selective quoting to twist the meaning, nor can i debate in an enviroment where people use the Mods as a threat because someone makes a valid point that they can't handle.

:bnghd:




[edit on 6/24/2009 by chise61]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 05:35 PM
link   
Edit to remove something i posted by mistake.

[edit on 6/24/2009 by chise61]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 03:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by chise61
Oh i have the perfect answer for you on this one, your own words again. Here ya go....

Humour doesn't always translate well across a computer screen.




Tezz I stand with what I said that people shouldn't be persecuted for what they wear, but come on none of these women can possibly want to be dressed like a ninja all day, I bet they'd love nothing more than to slap a tracksuit on or a pair of jeans.

The French are making this stance in my eyes because in society it can make people feel uncomfortable just like hooded youths do and it does have slight terrorist implications being that unless someone wearing a burka spoke to you, you've no idea if they're a woman, a guy, a genetically modified donkey - could be anyone with anything hid up their sleeve.

Its still a matter of choice though and if some women want to wear a burka that's cool too but god knows why they would. It's a straight up symbol of oppression and they do give off uncomfortable vibes when you're around people who are wearing them, specially when they normally don't speak a word of our language half the time too.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 10:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by ItsallCrazy
Tezz I stand with what I said that people shouldn't be persecuted for what they wear, but come on none of these women can possibly want to be dressed like a ninja all day, I bet they'd love nothing more than to slap a tracksuit on or a pair of jeans.


While I agree that some women wearing burqas probably don't really want to, I disagree that "none of these women" want to wear one. One logical reason I've seen why some women might like to put one on is, that they can just throw that thing on and not have to worry about their appearance. The women not wearing Burquas who go out into public probably fall into 2 categories, those who care what they look like and spend some time primping themselves before going out, and those who don't care about their appearance and spend no time primping themselves. The latter group may not get it, but the former group must be able to appreciate how much time it would save to not have to primp at all and just cover yourself up and go out without worrying about it. I'm sure there are other reasons they might wear one too, but that's one I can actually see some logic in.

So some women wearing them probably want to, some women wearing them probably don't, I have no idea what that percentage is but it would be an interesting study for some grad student somewhere to research that statistic.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 01:02 PM
link   
I think it is a matter of who is going out as to how much primping must be done.

The younger and prettier, the less primping required. The older and the uglier, the less likely they have to worry about gang rapes. How many of these women getting raped are ugly and or old? Probably none.

While girls who spend a lot of time on their looks might occasionally want to be able to go out while hiding their appearance, most of the time they want to be looked at, which is why they spend so much time on their appearance. I doubt if they would go for the burqa thing.

Girls who don't spend that much effort on their appearance would probably find putting on the Burqa more effort that what they normally spend in the first place before they go out. In addition, these girls usually find comfort more important then looks, which means they would be even more opposed to wearing a burqa, which looks incredibly uncomfortable.

The most likely reason for wearing a burqa is fear and distrust of the outside world, from which they get no exposure. This fear and distrust of the community outside of the Muslim community is exactly the problem that needs to be solved, which provides even more reason to ban the burqa.

Clearly, wearing of a burqa prohibits cultural exchange and understanding.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 01:47 PM
link   

PARIS – President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Monday that the Islamic burqa is not welcome in France, branding the face-covering, body-length gown as a symbol of subservience that suppresses women's identities and turns them into "prisoners behind a screen."



In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause of the lawmakers gathered where French kings once held court.



"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic


Their reason for wanting to ban the burqas is because they are oppressive to women.


Forgot link......

news.yahoo.com...

[edit on 6/25/2009 by chise61]



posted on Jun, 26 2009 @ 05:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I see your point, I did completely miss that.. but to be honest, if they were designed as just an easy to wear garment, they wouldn't be a symbol of one religion. Plus in middle eastern countries they are great for keeping cool, although you think they'd wear white instead of black..


Chise just saw your post. I think it's a combination of religion and oppression but as for the rest of your post


[edit on 26-6-2009 by ItsallCrazy]



posted on Jun, 26 2009 @ 12:23 PM
link   
If it is a climate thing, then why don't the men wear burqas. I understand they cover themselves, but the style is very different. The men's dress style looks far more comfortable, and also aims to present the man as a person, while the burqa aims to hide the woman, and looks smothering.

Are the men in France dressing in traditional Arab clothing? If the man and the woman are dressed up in traditional desert style clothing, then there is a legitimate claim of this being cultural, but when the man is dressed up like everyone else, and the woman is in a burqa, it becomes hard to believe.



posted on Jun, 26 2009 @ 12:46 PM
link   
I would say there are deeper cultural trends here.

In the west, you are expected to present yourself properly in accordance to the social situation. In casual situations, you are expected to dress casually, men in jeans and tees, women in their styles tend to be more varied. Men are not expected to dress colorfully, and this is frowned upon, while women are supposed to dress in a way that is attractive, without showing too much. In more formal settings, the dress style changes appropriately. In very formal settings, men in the west are actually expected to conform to attire that is more and more restrictive, while women are given more freedom, but highly scrutinized. This is expected in the western style, and dressing inappropriately is frowned upon.

Muslim culture in manners of presentation seem almost opposite. Muslim men are allowed to adopt western styles of dress, while the women are not allowed to do the same. This is the conflict, in that is seems that Muslim culture, in the effort to restrict how women are allowed to dress, remains sexist in this regard. This is very much at the heart of the matter of the conflict of the cultures.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 03:25 PM
link   
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


yes yes you are right burquas are very dangerous and can harbour all sorts of criminals and terrorists.we must unite and get them to stop this evil burqa right now

western CIVILIZATION DEPENDS ON IT.

Every day i am frightened i am scared

terrified out of my WITS...AT THESE BURQUAS HARBOURING TERRORISTS...

I CANNOT GO OUT OF THE HOUSE...

I CANNOT GO TO THE MALL...


EVERY TIME I SEE A BURQUA I WET MY PANTS AND RUN RUN RUN LIKE THE WIND.

IN CASE IT IS A DISQUIZED BOMBER...


Down DOWN WITH THE BURKA.


IT IS A TERRORIST WEAPOIN..I AM S FRIGHTENED I CANT SPELL.

MY HANDS ARE SHAKING..I AM SWEATING WITH FEAR.

WE MUST UNITE AND CONQUR IT.

I URGE senators to appoint a burkha offensive and launch a burkha factory bombing campaign...

ALL WESTERN CIVILIZATION UNITE AND DESTROY THE BURKHAS.


I am terrified out of my WITS.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by esecallum]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by esecallum]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 07:49 PM
link   
You make a good point, who knows how many explosives they could carry under there, quite a bit. So maybe you have good reason to be nervous about that. But I think you went too far when you said


Originally posted by esecallum

I URGE senators to appoint a burkha offensive and launch a burkha factory bombing campaign...

ALL WESTERN CIVILIZATION UNITE AND DESTROY THE BURKHAS.

I don't think the west objects to burqas being worn in Muslim countries so why destroy the factories?

Let the West have the Western culture and let the Muslims have the Muslim culture. The Muslims wouldn't let a woman walk down the street wearing a bikini like the West would, they would find it offensive. So the woman can wear the bikini where it's culturally accepted, but she can't wear it where it's not. I don't see how the burqa is much different when the cultures are reversed. Or are you suggesting that if a Muslim woman should be allowed to wear a burqa in the West, that a Western woman should be allowed to wear a string bikini in public in a Muslim country?

Well, at least if she was carrying any explosives, you would probably notice it!


[edit on 10-7-2009 by Arbitrageur]



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join