Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

ahh... never mind. sorry can someone please delete this if possible.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

First, let me start by saying that I have you a star on your initial post simply because I wanted it to have more recognition than that crap the second post contained about conquistadors and the like.

This is America today.

Lazy. Fat. Apathetic. Ignorant. Spoiled. and did I say "lazy"?

I've been in the US Army for 7 years and some change. Sometimes I love my job. Sometimes I hate it. But that's everybody isn't it? The one thing that holds true through that time is the fact that I have met some of the smartest people in the world and some of the stupidest people in the world in that 7 years. But they all have the same thing in common.

Courage.

For anyone who would sit at their computer desk in Anytown America, make up a false screen name, sign on to this site, and insult an American soldier.... I laugh at you and your "manhood, family, upbringing, children, job.... insert whatever else makes you a person..." None of you can give a straight answer to OP's question because it holds true.

You are all cowards. All of you.

You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here. You'd let the (chinese, russian, Iraqi, Iranian, etc, etc, etc.....) militaries come in and take. You don't have the intelligence or the initiative to actually go out and learn about us as people and what the military really stands for.

No.

You watch your sad little bites of filth from your news outlets - CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you have the wherewithal - LOL - to call yourselves "informed." I laugh at your intellect as well.

None of you have been over there. None of you.

"Oh, America shouldn't have invaded Iraq - oh the poor little Iraqis... boo hoo hoo ho ho ho ho hooooo o......."

You weren't there when we passed throughout all the towns on the way to Baghdad with their entire populations emptied out cheering us on w/ signs and tears of joy and people giving us food and drink - you weren't there when thousands of those same people cheered the fall of Sadaam or their first vote - or the opening of schools and other government institutions that never existed before the war.... were you?

No.

You were at home, busy complaining because some of us (less than 1% of the population) decided we were tired of getting fat and stupid.

I get my masters degree just like you - but for free now. Awwww, but that's because I'm a killer, right?! Ha. Nope. That's because I had the courage to do something besides sit around on my lazy fat ass and complain about stuff I didn't understand.

So.

To answer OP's question.

I would take a sword and shove it down the throat of anyone who thought it wise to threaten my family or way of life, because I am an American Soldier.

Originally posted by mf_luder
You are all cowards. All of you.

You need to take care with the words you use! Apparently you have not bothered to read all of the posts on this thread, or you would not make such a statement!!! I have earned the right to say whatever I wish on this subject, not only through my eight years of service, but also with that disability check I receive from the VA every month!!! I have also supported our brave service men and women with every post on this thread!!! Then there are the posts by SGTChas!!!

As far as Iraq goes, yes there were cheering crowds, but this does not justify the invasion in the first place. That decision was made by a coward who hid in the National Guard to get out of serving in Vietnam and had 'Daddy issues'! I do appreciate your service, and I do not feel that our service members are 'bad', as I have stated over and over again. Beware of painting with a broad brush, as you have insulted those who have served before you and have posted on this thread!!

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Whoa, easy pal.

I never insult those who served or are serving.

My post was directed at a specific group of people.

The people I'm talking to know who they are. The people who don't know what it's like. The people who are afraid of us and don't know who we are or where we come from.

My posts are never directed at you or me.

Just those who don't know.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by mf_luder]

reply to post by mf_luder


I know what you meant, and thank you.

I pray that the ones you speak of will never have to know "how good they had it" and as long as people like you are where you are, they will never have to.

reply to post by mf_luder


Well, your wording left that ambiguous at best. I agree with you about the 'cowards' who like to sling barbs and insults, but lack the intestinal fortitude to step forward and serve. War sucks, but cowardice sucks big time! I may not agree with what the US military is sent to do, but I always support those that are sent to do it!!

We had a saying when I was on active duty that sums it up:

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful!"

I think it still holds true.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


and I too have heard those very same words.

My deepest apologies if my post was an insult to you.

I never intend to insult those who - like me - have or are serving. Believe me.

reply to post by network dude


Cheers to you man.

You are now on my friends list.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


As far as Iraq goes, yes there were cheering crowds, but this does not justify the invasion in the first place.

What if for some odd reason, the US decided to place a classification level on the existence of WMDs found in Iraq?

Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

No

People who hate those volunteers who risk life and limb to protect our Freedoms are evil however. They fight their battles from the safety of the Internet anonymously while brave men and women willingly take bullets for them; despite them.

After a youth spent as a Hippie protesting the Vietnam War, I realized I was surrounded by cowards and I'd fallen for their propaganda. Yes, the war was wrong, but so were they. They never gave a damn about the war or anything else beyond their own drug induced pleasures. What they cared most about was avoiding work, responsibility and about diverting attention from their own inadequacies by slandering others.

From the moment I separated myself from these sick loser's, my life improved daily. These loser's contribute nothing to society and in fact suck the life blood out of it as they collect their food stamps and welfare checks funded by those they hate.

I understand them though. Their self-esteem is so low that spreading propaganda and hate amounts to self medication. They brag about throwing a brick through some innocent persons window in retaliation for some fictional wrong done to them to cover their own self loathing for leeching off society while contributing nothing in return.

Then you have the future residents of a Super-Max prison facility that hate for the pure sake of hate. They justify their own evil by blaming their actions on any convenient target. The word Protest to them means an opportunity to loot, rape and pillage under the cover of their phony concern for the rights of the people.

Those who spit on Soldiers and spew the lies are the same people who sit in high office and steal our freedoms. Having an all volunteer Military slowed them down a bit, but they soon learned to adjust their propaganda and lies around it. They defend butchers like Castro and Che Guevara while spewing hatred about the hero from next door who gave his legs to protect their right to spew their hate.

To my shame, I have followed both those paths in my youth. Their camouflage is transparent to me. Most will outgrow it as they mature. Some however will become the 40, 50 and 60 year old leaders who surround themselves with the young and naive who have yet to realize their leader is nothing more than a leech on society who is using them and their resources simply to avoid work and responsibility.

reply to post by mf_luder


Well, then Bush did a huge disfavor to his party, as this was a huge factor to the downfall of the Republican Party. And even if Saddam had them, we are not 'Team America: World Police'! Unless there is UN backing, we should handle these things diplomatically. This type of decision making is why the islamic world hates us so much.

In all reality, the Iraq war was about oil, not WMDs. That was just the excuse. This does not diminish the service of those sent (over and over again) to Iraq and have fought bravely. I salute all of you, especially those who have fallen and those who have been crippled for life.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/749340ce2c3e.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by mf_luder I wonder if you could post any evidence to support your claim that courage only resides in those who have enlisted? I ask because my personal experience of American airmen & marines offbase has been that they are quite timid in comparison to British & German folk, but I have to contrast this with the British Army common wisdom, "never get in front of the Yanks." Apparently y'all are known for being trigger-happy, but then I cant help remembering times when I was peeing myself in fear waiting for enough info to make a good decision, rather than wading into the situation to hurt the most obviously threatening people. Like I've said, I've never fought military in a theatre of battle, so I might well be talking out of my arse, but it seems to me that it was harder to exercise restraint in fear than it has been to just give someone a good slapping (I'm quite large so this last should not be construed as evidence of courage on my part).

reply to post by Bunken Drum


American service members are taught and encouraged to use restaint and decorum in public, as they are representatives and ambassadors of the US. That British expression comes from the extent of the training and the ferocity of our troops. It's not about fear, it's about tenacity.

I respect our soldiers in general. They're awesome and I love them. Actually, of all the guys I grew up around (in an economically depressed rural area), I think 3 out of every 5 have served/are serving in the military. And of course, there are several girls I know who enlisted as well.

However, I do not agree with how the government and military-industrial complex uses these brave men and women for their own gains and agenda.

I'm very concerned about how combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan (particularly) are affecting the awesome people that I know... psychologically, emotionally, spiritually... I hope they're able to reconcile their experiences with their hearts and minds.

It's not my place to judge them, but I pray that they can judge themselves and their actions fairly. They are not tools, they are individuals.

Originally posted by Tour18

“Before you lose your civility”? I’m shaking in my shoes. My fingers are trembling such that it’s difficult to type. You have my undivided attention.

What I meant buy this is, I don't use profanity in my post;I'm too articulate to do that so you have no need (not that you did) to fear me.

Your avatar fully explains the sensibilities you feel for the reputation afforded the professional soldier. I’m moved.

Of course,I'm a Vet and right or wrong I will stand by these men and women who have by choice; put themselves in harms way for the sake of America.

Your avatar truly does answer many unasked questions for me. It might not be so clear to someone who is not a Veteran.

Likewise,but instead of an avatar,I had your post to pretty much nail what you were. You have no idea what soldiers are going through and have went through because they took and oath and stood by that oath.

Why don't you explain your avatar to the ATS members not so fortunate as to have worn an American uniform. You made it large enough to be unmistakable. You obviously have sufficient digital image editing skills to steal a copyrighted image, alter it and inject it here at ATS as your avatar. It is a deliberate selection on your part. Having put that much effort into its creation, I'm sure you would be eager to share your patriotism through your chosen symbology.

Even though I get what you are saying, you're wrong. I'm into quantum theory but do you see an equation for the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle?
My avatar has no bearing on my patronage to my country and my loyalty to my fellow soldiers.

Through the Hollywood character portrayed and chosen for your avatar, you might explain the compassion you feel for the parents of our soldiers who have been murdered and raped by their fellow soldiers in Iraq and right here in the homeland since 911...

IMO Kurtz represented the “rotten apple”, he represented what they (the powers that be) did not want to hear, and that is that war; is destructive and it is horror. Any war is hypocrisy by definition. In the movie Sheen makes the statement that “charging Kurtz with murder is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.”

This movie offered a clear perspective about the causes of war and colonial domination of the third world and IMO is shown from the imperialist point of view. This movie offers no deeper insight into the causes of war but it does educate you in the reality of war.

The helicopter attack scene demonstrates this point perfectly. The destruction of that village by air strikes, slaughtered civilians as well as the enemy. In war, you can’t kill the enemy and avoid killing women and children to, in real war, everyone is affected.

Again, referencing the chosen symbology of your ATS avatar... You injected these topics into this discussion. You accused me of spitting in face of others…

Yes I did and I stand by it. When you deprecate and be-little the men and women that serve this country no matter whether it is right or wrong, I will use strong language like this.

Please regale us. I’m calling you out.

This is not a show or a game, young me and women are dying while you are here living in the comfort they are providing. Think about the soldier that is on patrol who's mind is in a state of panic because he doesn't know if his next step is going to be his last due to the fact he stepped on a land mine.

Now when was the last time you had to think about that? It is obvious that is is not today because you are on here, and the last time I checked, laptops aren't carried on patrol for entertainment.



[edit on 20-6-2009 by Eight]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Our military men and women took an oath to the Constitution. Many Constitutional rights have been nullified in the past decade.

Our men and women in uniform stood by and did nothing while those rights and freedoms which they swore to uphold and defend were systematically removed.

Let us look at their failures - let us see which freedoms our Military did not protect and which we no longer have:

**Feel free to add to this list any other rights and freedoms that our military has failed to protect and preserve.

1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH
• The Patriot Act 1 & 2 broadly expands the official definition of
terrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage in
nonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselves
labeled as terrorists.
• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepers
of any other records if they reveal that the government
requested information on their clients or members in the
course of an investigation. It has become a crime for these
individuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell you
that you are under investigation


1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment-protected activities of religious and political institutions, and then infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminal activity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abiding religious and political groups.
• You may now be the subject of a government investigation simply because of the political, activist, or advocacy groups you are involved in, or the statements you make within these groups.


1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESS
GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encourages
federal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit access
to government records through Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) requests.
• The Government has conducted immigration hearings in
secret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were once
open to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants
have already been deported in secret.

4th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE
SEARCHES &SEIZURES
• Law Enforcement authorities may now conduct secret searches and wiretaps in your home or office without showing “probable cause.” They need only to claim that intelligence gathering is “a significant purpose” of their intrusion, even when the primary goal is ordinary law enforcement. They may also monitor where and to whom you send and receive e-mail, or where you go on the Internet, recording every e-mail address and website you have been in contact with.
• Law Enforcement may now demand any personal records held by any source including your doctor,employer, accountant, or library. All they have to do is claim that it is related to an investigation into “terrorism.” The record keepers may not reveal that your records were provided to the government.
• Judicial oversight of secret searches has been effectively minimized. The Patriot Act directs judges to consent to secret searches based only on the Government’s assertion that a “significant” purpose of an investigation is gathering information related to “terrorism,” as the government defines it.

5th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS & FREEDOM FROM BEING
HELD WITHOUT CHARGE
• Americans can now be jailed without a formal charge & without the right to confront the witnesses or evidence against them. American citizens are now being held in military jails without charge and with-out a clear path of appeal for their indefinite confinement.
• Hundreds of Arab, Muslim and South Asian men were rounded up in the Ashcroft raids following September 11, and held for weeks without charges until all were cleared of terrorism charges

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION
• Hundreds of U.S. residents have been detained for months at a time, and denied access to the advice and advocacy of an attorney. The Government may now monitor conversations between attorneys & clients in federal jails.
• The Bush Administration filed papers in court that arguing that an American citizen held in a military jail without charge should be denied access to legal counsel because such access would interfere with the process of his interrogation.

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL
• The U.S. Government may now jail its residents and citizens indefinitely without charge & without a public trial.

8th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS
• The U.S. Government has taken into custody individuals they identify as “material witnesses,” trans-ported them across the country, and held them for months in solitary confinement without charge or contact with their family.
• According to the Justice Department’s own Inspector General, immigrant men rounded up in the Ashcroft raids following September 11 and held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, NY were subjected to a pattern of “physical and verbal abuse.”

(List courtesy of the NYCLU and it is a few years old)


*Oh yeah, for those of you who think our massive military is needed to prevent invasion - you are forgetting our nuclear arsenal....

[edit on 20-6-2009 by Exuberant1]

So what do you propose the military should have done? No,let me take that back. What do you think the "soldiers" should have done? You and others seem to forget that the military is an"organization". You tell me who are you blaming, the Commander in chief,Generals,Admirals, or the soldiers that follow the orders of these people?

Originally posted by mf_luder
First, let me start by saying that I have you a star on your initial post simply because I wanted it to have more recognition than that crap the second post contained about conquistadors and the like.

This is America today.

Lazy. Fat. Apathetic. Ignorant. Spoiled. and did I say "lazy"?

I've been in the US Army for 7 years and some change. Sometimes I love my job. Sometimes I hate it. But that's everybody isn't it? The one thing that holds true through that time is the fact that I have met some of the smartest people in the world and some of the stupidest people in the world in that 7 years. But they all have the same thing in common.

Courage.

For anyone who would sit at their computer desk in Anytown America, make up a false screen name, sign on to this site, and insult an American soldier.... I laugh at you and your "manhood, family, upbringing, children, job.... insert whatever else makes you a person..." None of you can give a straight answer to OP's question because it holds true.

You are all cowards. All of you.

You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here. You'd let the (chinese, russian, Iraqi, Iranian, etc, etc, etc.....) militaries come in and take. You don't have the intelligence or the initiative to actually go out and learn about us as people and what the military really stands for.

No.

You watch your sad little bites of filth from your news outlets - CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you have the wherewithal - LOL - to call yourselves "informed." I laugh at your intellect as well.

None of you have been over there. None of you.

"Oh, America shouldn't have invaded Iraq - oh the poor little Iraqis... boo hoo hoo ho ho ho ho hooooo o......."

You weren't there when we passed throughout all the towns on the way to Baghdad with their entire populations emptied out cheering us on w/ signs and tears of joy and people giving us food and drink - you weren't there when thousands of those same people cheered the fall of Sadaam or their first vote - or the opening of schools and other government institutions that never existed before the war.... were you?

No.

You were at home, busy complaining because some of us (less than 1% of the population) decided we were tired of getting fat and stupid.

I get my masters degree just like you - but for free now. Awwww, but that's because I'm a killer, right?! Ha. Nope. That's because I had the courage to do something besides sit around on my lazy fat ass and complain about stuff I didn't understand.

So.

To answer OP's question.

I would take a sword and shove it down the throat of anyone who thought it wise to threaten my family or way of life, because I am an American Soldier.

If you are a Christian one of the commandments said, "thou shalt not kill".

Period, no if ands or buts and it's the shortest and most direct of all the "commandments".

Frig, I'm not even "Christian" and I can see the logic.

Killing in the name of a god, a country, a law or for any reason is wrong.

No one has the right to take the life of another nor make another's life unbearable.

The biggest contention with my fellow human beings is how aggressive, how vicious how murdeous we are as a species and how we excuse the act of murder with "exceptions".

The act of war is the mass murdering of fellow human beings and I don't care or want to hear "Well their doing it" two wrongs don't make a right and if you condon war or murder of any kind you have gone over to the dark side and have sunk to the level of those who practice and condon the taking of another's life.

Breaking it down simply,

Kindness & love = the light (goodness)

Meaness & hate = the dark (evil)

To quote David Icke, "Love is the answer, everything else is an illusion".

[edit on 20-6-2009 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
If you are a Christian one of the commandments said, "thou shalt not kill".

Actually, it says, "Thou shall not murder." In wartime, you don't murder, you kill. Two different things.

Lots of people here stating that by being in Iraq etc the soldiers are not protecting America.

There is more to protecting a nation than removing the threat of actual physical invasion. It's not all about stopping some Nazi sticking a gun up your nose. Protecting a nation also involves protecting its' global standing to secure the countries financial/economic viability.

In basic terms, as the countries overseas assets become threatened (as oil did in Iraq), the cost of these assets increases. The losses being incurred by the price increases has to be offset by increasing tax (and therefore end cost) of other assets (such as food and utilities). This has a knock on effect in rising the cost of living to the extent that it can weaken the national standing and potentially pull down a government.

As national debt increases, taxes increase, cost of living rises, poverty increases, less people can afford decent food or healthcare, the poverty line encompases more people and so on.

The soldiers may not be protecting the physical aspect of society, but by attempting to stabalise a region they are helping to protect your way of life.