Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

Ah, yes, the military sure saved America from 9/11 eh ?

Where were all the fighter jets ?

Oh , they were all stood down. Funny eh ?

Sounds like your glorious brave military were part of the problem.

I believe most who enrolled in the military didn't really know the truth at the time, but there is an awakening going on around the world. I believe our troops are still willing to go out and kill "the enemy", but when it comes to coming home and attacking us and taking away our guns, they aren't going to do this. I think since it was part of "the plan' to make America look like bullies or the jerks of the world and such, foreign troops are going to be more willing to come over here and do the "dirty deeds".

But it says in the FEMA guide lines on who gets to go to Camp FEMA, that the troops can make their own decisions on who to hall in. So if you're faced with this situation, be wise and it can save your life. Talk human to human, not enemy to enemy or in any other manner. The troops will have the decision weather to hall you to camp fema or not, plus I'm sure they'll be willing to take pay-offs in money or goods. But at the end of the say, we're all humans, well most at least, and most want to make a living and live in peace. Never forget that fact and use it to your advantage if possible.

You know, I joined this site months ago because I, like most people here, think there are a lot of things going on that are "wrong". Seems like things don't make sense much of the time anymore... maybe, there actually is some global conspiracy or group of conspiracies. However, the longer I'm on here the more sickened I get. Now, I don't believe all soldiers are heroes or even wonderful human beings. But, I know what they all are... people. Just like the op said, they're mostly normal people from all walks of life. Those of you who say that they should know better should remember most of them join when they're just kids. If our government sends them to some hellhole to risk their lives for a cause which seems unjust, how is that their fault? I hate the fact that politicians have used the military as a shield of sorts when people complain about our government's foreign policy but, again, that is not the soldier's fault.
Either way, I am glad we have a strong military. I don't think we should be policing the world with them but, I am happy they are there to protect us. There are still wolves out there we need protection from. Not everything is a conspiracy. If you can't respect our soldiers you should at least have compassion for them if you feel they are being misused by the powers that be.
Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by SGTChas

 

I'm so sorry you lost your hero...

Really guys, I'm not in here to hate on any of you, I'm just trying to make the point that somewhere down the line the military became about protecting the interests of the rich instead of protecting our freedom. When there are threads that get action started on ATS fearing that the US military will start gunning down her own civilian brothers like they do in China, it becomes an even bigger concern.

Once again they will do as they're ordered to protect the rich.

I certainly hope they're protecting the rich who drive our economy. Without them we'd still be living in sod houses and unemployed. Why are you so bitter about rich people? Simple jealously does not begin to explain this attitude. Perhaps you have been led to believe that a man who achieves greatness, who is productive and brilliant, somehow does not deserve the fruits of his labor; that what he achieves should be taken away in the name of...what?...fairness? That he has some kind of sick obligation to make himself un-rich, or otherwise he is detestable.

You're entirely missing the point of the OP, completely skirting the issue. You keep re-wording your talking points of A) evil rich dudes, and B) Iraq was a mistake. The whole point is the very existence of the military is what keeps our nation safe from hostile invaders, nevermind what wars are currently taking place. Our military exists to ensure that we are not at the mercy of our enemies by constantly reminding them that treading on American soil/property is literally national suicide for them. This is how they protect your freedoms, which leaves us civilians with the task of routing out the enemies within who would steal our freedom.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Tayesin

 

You need to brush up on your history. There have been three times that the US military has defended US soil. The Revolutionary War (as we consider the birth of the nation to have occurred on July 4th, 1776), the War of 1812 (the British set fire to the White House during this conflict), and of course WWII (Pearl Harbor).

They don't teach us American History here in Australia, hell they don't teach us much about our own history that is real anyway. We still can't get real history, just more pushing of the traditional views of history from the Victor's perspective... which would also be the case in your country too.

Was your country the United States when you had the Revolutionary War?

Apart from these small discrepancies on my behalf, what did you think of the rest of my post?

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Are soldiers who protect America bad?
No, definitely not !!!

Are soldiers that bomb invade, torture foreigners that are not, and never have been the slightest threat to America, are just DUMB VICTIMS.

Since when was Iraq a threat to the American homeland?
What is this threat exactly ?

What is the purpose of the illegal invasion of Iraq ?
What is the objective ?
Where is the moral right for this ?

Sorry guys, but America will go down in history with Imperial Japan, and Nazi Germany as war criminals and losers.

America has committed crimes against international law, against common justice, and against God's laws.

That has nothing at all to do with PROTECTING AMERICA.

With respect to your post, you my friend do not listen to a majority of these United States.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Ah, yes, the military sure saved America from 9/11 eh ?

Where were all the fighter jets ?

Oh , they were all stood down. Funny eh ?

Sounds like your glorious brave military were part of the problem.

If you are referring to me, you're wrong. Blame the the people in charge and not the soldiers

reply to post by network dude


Awesome thread !
There aren't enough people like you who understand how important the troops really are.

Those ignorant people don't understand their function to protect us from ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Our troops put their lives on the line so we can be free and they deserve our respect, praise and admiration.

I don't see many military personnel in uniform but when I do, I'll walk up and shake their hand and just say, "thanks".

GREAT THREAD !!!
STARRED AND FLAGGED !!!

reply to post by network dude


I'm not gunna read this thread, for the simple fact it is gunna bring out heated replies from US citizens from both serving and public.

BUT I will post in it saying this;

An army is required to serve, for the freedoms a country stands by, to liberate those who that country stands by and to make sure no enemy ever infiltrates either their philosophy or truths, and in that I KNOW that when a man or woman stands up and says I will lay down my life to ensure this demand is met, by god I will stand by that man or woman.

Those who dispute these facts are those who are sullen by the very realities they ignore. They are the first to cry foul when reality come knocking and wants more than a hello.

However I do not believe it is the job of OUR men and women to fight and die in a place where politics is the game. Not for that. Not ever. This is the conundrum. And that is where the truth must lay.

to those that think the military has done nothing to protect you since Pearl Harbor, I will tell you that every day you live in the USA without a foreign force invading your homeland, it's because of the military. It's because they feel deep down in their souls that they are protecting you. They believe that if they do their job well, then you will get to go on with your life as if nothing happened. And they don't care that you hate them.

Make no mistake. There are superheroes in this world. And they are here to protect you

reply to post by network dude


"I want you to ask your self a question. If they did't enlist and there was no military, who would make sure another country didn't decide to take YOUR stuff? Would you personally stand up and try to stop them? Would you ask for help from your neighbors? Would you form an organized group and fight the enemy away?"

First I want to say, a dog with no balls doesn't bark much. That meaning that if our politicians didn't have balls big enough to juice in a dump truck, they may keep their noses out of every other country's anus, which would in fact make our country safer.

Second, you do not seem to remember you history beyond Vietnam very well:

I think if you read back a little further you will find an event called the Revolutionary war.

So in fact as you said in the OP, "Be careful how you answer, you could just start an army." Yup and it was done before to overthrow an oppressive government.

[edit on 6/20/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

I must post my opinion on this subject and it does reflect previous thoughts from other ATS members.

The soldiers we see today fighting wars some of us don't agree with are the same men and women who, if the USA was ever invaded, would stand shoulder to shoulder at our shores and die to protect the people who hate them, the softened people of the United States. They would have an enemy at their faces...the invading force from another country. They would have enemies at their backs asking why we dont just roll over and let the enemy land.

It reminds me of the general outcry against cops. When ever a video surfaces of a cop beating someone, justified or not, the softened ones cry out "Cops are evil, cops have power issues"

The next day, as that same person is pinned beneath a burning car within seconds of exploding, who will be there risking their lives to save them?

Reverand Al? Alex Jones? Your buddy who thinks cops can kiss his arse?
No, the police will be there. The same cop who maybe last week maced a drug dealing monkey who resisted arrest and was caught on video and persecuted...that same cop will die trying to save a citizen.

Lastly...evil. Oh yes, I believe in evil. I believe the rulers of this earth, the people who use our soldiers and police for their alterior motives. They are the evil. Should we have raped a country looking for WMDs? Maybe not. Should the US Military be constantly poking their nose everywhere? I don't think so.

Are the brave men and women who offer to give their lives for freedom the spawn of Satan? Well, if they are, I'll raise a glass with them when I meet them in Hell

I want to expand on what I just wrote somewhat.

If you will look back in history you will find that we have not always been the dominant world force. For 140 years we were just an average country. No-body invaded us although their were two mega powers at the time (France and England). The reason: we minded our own business and was not a threat to anyone.

Somewhere along the way, someone or some people decided that we needed to become an empire. Just being independent and free was not enough, we had to impose our beliefs on others. If we also look back through history we will find that there has been a few other empires: France, England, Greece, Persian, Roman...etc. They all had one thing in common; a violent end to their empire. But somehow, we are going to be different, we are going to be the empire that survives forever....lol just how stupid are we?

Once we got away from our principles and decided to be a "world player" we initiated a chain of events that will only culminate in one possible scenario: destruction.

It has gotten to the point that the citizens have no value to the country other than how much revenue they can provide to the global behemoth. So now we have progressed from being a content independent entity of self governance, to a global superpower whom imposes their will on every continent on the planet, to a total disregard for its citizenry. Look folks, we are making enemies everywhere, not just overseas, but right here at home as well.

This can only end in one of two ways.

First, the leadership realizes the mistakes they have made and rights the ship, I estimate less than a .001% chance of this happening.

Second, the fall of yet another great empire.

[edit on 6/20/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

There are five fundamental driving impulses. Lust, anger, greed, attachment, envy. If karma of anger is strong at any given time then that person will find something to express it upon. If they have strong karma on one or more of the other primary impulses they will tend to vent along those lines. People feeling inadequate want to move into a position of authority where they have greater feeling to express their inclinations. Add the economic incentives and you have a strong attraction for these people. That does not mean to stereotype a person who joins the military. Many are very fine well intending individuals. But others aren't. Combine that with a hierarchy that may have a malevolent intent and boom. Combine that further with weak mindedness, cowardice, etc. and you've got a fuel for potential disasters.

We know there is well over half a century of infiltration into the military by the Illuminati. For example it's clear the "pop music" scene was instigated by the Illuminati via their children some of whom where altered for the purpose. We know that under the guise of communism a general invasion into the military took place in the 40s and 50s just as it did in Hollywood and elsewhere.

We know the "Military / Industrial Complex" is really just a code word for Illuminati / NWO.

So we know the Military as a great place for Devil worshipers to hang out. But we also know they are never the majority of the people but often their leaders.

Blaming individual soldiers is not a good thing, of course. But being cautions about the Military and military personnel is.

As a veteran, I have a biased view, obviously. I don't think there has ever been a civilization that had no military and survived. Even religions have their own "military" IE; vatican has the swiss gaurd, islam uses jihad, and the mormons had their own vengeance riders. No matter how you look at it, militaries are a neccesary evil. History is full of wars, and even the religions all have wars in their past (the old testement is full of battles and wars fought in the name of God). And remember, mankind is fallible, which means everything we create is also fallible, including our gov't and military. So, call me what you like, soldier, vet, mercenary, killer, whatever...I joined and fought for the country I live in and want to see prosper.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by CaptGhost]

reply to post by Eight


“Before you lose your civility”? I’m shaking in my shoes. My fingers are trembling such that it’s difficult to type. You have my undivided attention.

Your avatar fully explains the sensibilities you feel for the reputation afforded the professional soldier. I’m moved.

Your avatar truly does answer many unasked questions for me. It might not be so clear to someone who is not a Veteran.

Why don't you explain your avatar to the ATS members not so fortunate as to have worn an American uniform. You made it large enough to be unmistakable. You obviously have sufficient digital image editing skills to steal a copyrighted image, alter it and inject it here at ATS as your avatar. It is a deliberate selection on your part. Having put that much effort into its creation, I'm sure you would be eager to share your patriotism through your chosen symbology.

Through the Hollywood character portrayed and chosen for your avatar, you might explain the compassion you feel for the parents of our soldiers who have been murdered and raped by their fellow soldiers in Iraq and right here in the homeland since 911... Fellow soldiers HAND chosen to wear the uniform of my Armed Forces. Again, referencing the chosen symbology of your ATS avatar... You injected these topics into this discussion. You accused me of spitting in face of others…

Please regale us. I’m calling you out.


[edit on 20-6-2009 by Tour18]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by Tour18]

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by network dude

 

Second, you do not seem to remember you history beyond Vietnam very well:

I think if you read back a little further you will find an event called the Revolutionary war.

So in fact as you said in the OP, "Be careful how you answer, you could just start an army." Yup and it was done before to overthrow an oppressive government.

[edit on 6/20/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

But that is exactly my point. We didn't have an army. We needed one though. And we created one. Asking the British nicely to go back home and stop taking our money didn't work so well. And for these whiney little crybabies here who have never stepped out of their little protective radius of mommy, we have an army to keep you safe and free from outside tyrany. You don't have to believe me. But let them not be there, and you would find out quick that you would miss them.

a poem for your reading pleasure.

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face.
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees! -- Rudyard Kipling

[edit on 20-6-2009 by network dude]

Well I'll try my best to address how I'm interpreting this.

First of all I was in the military and they chose my job for me based on scores, psych evals etc.

Now that being said they must have known more about me than I did because I would have never picked the job they gave me and it turned out to be a very lucrative job not by the money received but by the experience I have under my belt.

Now I have friends that are still in the military. The part that sucks about being in is the public only hears of mishaps never of the successful operations because they are all classified. However if something goes wrong the whole world usually see's it such as a plane crashing, a solider going off the deep end and going on a murderous rampage etc.

What the public doesn't hear about are individuals who have been rescued from hostage type situations, the procurement of weapons intended for use against other countries, checks and balances the military uses against possible threats to even the playing field and keep an area secure, spies that relay plots and planned security breaches of key targets around the world not just in the US. You get the idea or at least I hope you do. I've had friends ask me certain things that I just had to plain tell them I couldn't talk about it, I was never a big shot and what I know might be considered trivial at best when it comes to national security but I'm not about to take the chance.

I see a lot of people saying the military will do this or that when talking about the NWO. Sorry but it won't happen not by our current military. The friends I have that are still in would never follow the order and chances are the commander would never give the order in the first place. Why you might ask?

Because if there was an order of that type given the majority of commanders would go straight to the news media in a political move to move up the chain of command. Imagine what they would do to an officer if he proved there were illegal orders given to him to give to his troops. By exposing this he would be guaranteed a higher political spot than he could have ever dreamed of. In fact I would put money down that commanders everywhere would be fighting over who got to the news media first.

You say they would be killed if they did this? Only disagree, if they made it on the news during prime time that person being a target would no longer be, if ever having been, considered a target because the death of that person would cause an uproar of both the citizens and the military themselves, effectively alienating the military from the govt.

All of that being said if there was a threat on US soil no matter whom I would have no problem picking up my gun and taking care of that threat.

Quite honestly I'm way more worried about the politicians in govt. to include the federal reserves reach than I will ever be about the military.

And if someone's really that worried, then join up and see for yourself. You have no idea how many people in the military have amazing careers and accomplished feats that the present day public will never know of.

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
Great post,and i agree. My grandpa who recently passed away was in vietnam. i respect him and what he did for this country. i have good friend in Iraq right now and i respect him for what he is doing though i do not agree with the war at all. Thank you to all the men and women who put there life on the line for our freedom. It just makes me sick how some people treat our soldiers...





PEACE!!!

You don't agree with the war but you respect your friend that goes to that war to kill inoncent people for a lie your governement made?

this you gota explain dude. I respect no one that goes to war because in the case of America it's not for your freedom! thats just a one-liner to talk everything good. "We have people in other country's killing for no reason, but hell i respect them because they give us freedom"? how the f*ck? I really don't understand the American psychology.

you guys go on a imperialist killingspree and its for your freedom?

Our military men and women took an oath to the Constitution. Many Constitutional rights have been nullified in the past decade.

Our men and women in uniform stood by and did nothing while those rights and freedoms which they swore to uphold and defend were systematically removed.

Let us look at their failures - let us see which freedoms our Military did not protect and which we no longer have:

**Feel free to add to this list any other rights and freedoms that our military has failed to protect and preserve.

1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH
• The Patriot Act 1 & 2 broadly expands the official definition of
terrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage in
nonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselves
labeled as terrorists.
• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepers
of any other records if they reveal that the government
requested information on their clients or members in the
course of an investigation. It has become a crime for these
individuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell you
that you are under investigation


1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment-protected activities of religious and political institutions, and then infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminal activity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abiding religious and political groups.
• You may now be the subject of a government investigation simply because of the political, activist, or advocacy groups you are involved in, or the statements you make within these groups.


1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESS
GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encourages
federal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit access
to government records through Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) requests.
• The Government has conducted immigration hearings in
secret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were once
open to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants
have already been deported in secret.

4th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE
SEARCHES &SEIZURES
• Law Enforcement authorities may now conduct secret searches and wiretaps in your home or office without showing “probable cause.” They need only to claim that intelligence gathering is “a significant purpose” of their intrusion, even when the primary goal is ordinary law enforcement. They may also monitor where and to whom you send and receive e-mail, or where you go on the Internet, recording every e-mail address and website you have been in contact with.
• Law Enforcement may now demand any personal records held by any source including your doctor,employer, accountant, or library. All they have to do is claim that it is related to an investigation into “terrorism.” The record keepers may not reveal that your records were provided to the government.
• Judicial oversight of secret searches has been effectively minimized. The Patriot Act directs judges to consent to secret searches based only on the Government’s assertion that a “significant” purpose of an investigation is gathering information related to “terrorism,” as the government defines it.

5th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS & FREEDOM FROM BEING
HELD WITHOUT CHARGE
• Americans can now be jailed without a formal charge & without the right to confront the witnesses or evidence against them. American citizens are now being held in military jails without charge and with-out a clear path of appeal for their indefinite confinement.
• Hundreds of Arab, Muslim and South Asian men were rounded up in the Ashcroft raids following September 11, and held for weeks without charges until all were cleared of terrorism charges

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION
• Hundreds of U.S. residents have been detained for months at a time, and denied access to the advice and advocacy of an attorney. The Government may now monitor conversations between attorneys & clients in federal jails.
• The Bush Administration filed papers in court that arguing that an American citizen held in a military jail without charge should be denied access to legal counsel because such access would interfere with the process of his interrogation.

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL
• The U.S. Government may now jail its residents and citizens indefinitely without charge & without a public trial.

8th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS
• The U.S. Government has taken into custody individuals they identify as “material witnesses,” trans-ported them across the country, and held them for months in solitary confinement without charge or contact with their family.
• According to the Justice Department’s own Inspector General, immigrant men rounded up in the Ashcroft raids following September 11 and held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, NY were subjected to a pattern of “physical and verbal abuse.”

(List courtesy of the NYCLU and it is a few years old)


*Oh yeah, for those of you who think our massive military is needed to prevent invasion - you are forgetting our nuclear arsenal....

[edit on 20-6-2009 by Exuberant1]