Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

Originally posted by Drexl
All you Doesn't matter that I'm not dumb enough to go fighting corporations and Israeli's battles for them.

But obviously you are dumb enough to accept that one video you dug up as the picture of the entire US Military.



Good job on your research and intellectual capabilities.

Originally posted by Drexl
All you got is . .. have you been mortared etc, blah blah , in a cyclic repetative form throughout that whole post . That is the way you types work, accept your notion of the righteousness of these so called purveyors of freedom , lest you have been there yourself to say otherwise .

Well, probably because myself and other that have been in the service have a bit of experience in this area. You don't see me going down to the Burger King where you work and knocking the burgers off the grills, do you?

So, before you pass judgement on someone's behavior in that situation, you need to maybe walk a mile in their boots.

Originally posted by Drexl
You think just because some half wit has put themselves into a position to have a mortar shell land by them , they are the only ones that ought to have a say on the rights and wherefores a shell should have landed by them at all .

Oh, now their "half-wits", huh? That's precious.

Originally posted by Drexl
It don't work that way , genius, in fact , the last person to decide the rights and wrongs of such an event is the doofus that get killed or injured by one .

Now it's "doofus"! Sweet!!

Since they are on the receiving end of the attack, I think they are the first ones to have a word about their actions, not someone who's a "Monday Morning Quarterback".

Originally posted by Drexl
Who said it was a mortar attack anyway ?, I did . You want to take my word for it that it was a mortar attack at all ?

Nothing you say detracts from the fact , that these homeboys are not exactly the picture you want to represent of the fearless fighting for freedom crusaders that you would like the US public to envisage.

Well, that might be accurate, but don't go thinking that's what happens all the time. You'll be sadly mistaken.

Not that you'll ever go and find out.

Originally posted by Drexl
Doesn't matter that I'm not dumb enough to go fighting corporations and Israeli's battles for them.

Whatever.


[edit on 24-6-2009 by jerico65]

So whats the overall point you guys are making? Some soldiers bad, some good? What, so they shouldant be criticised?

This is a classic example of political manipulation. An army invades a country under dubious circumstances and outright lies, someone complains and then suddenly it isnt an army invading another country, its put on a personal level, men and women with families fighting for "freedom". So anyone who criticises it are immediately pariahs.

Why dont you guys just have all the women wave white handkercheifs at the "conscientious objectors" as they try and cross the street? Do militaristic people ever actually learn anything from the past?

Instead of making excuses for your government why not adivise against joining an irresponsible military? Maybe tell kids yeah, the army isnt all glory and they dont always look after you.

reply to post by jerico65


Here we are on the subject of troops in Iraq, and you do a whole copy and paste to bring no more to the subject than burger bars . Unfortunately , I cannot help you in that direction, not all of us come from obviously the small town / farm environment that you are aquainted with where the choices are limited thus.

Originally posted by mf_luder

Originally posted by Drexl
All you Doesn't matter that I'm not dumb enough to go fighting corporations and Israeli's battles for them.

But obviously you are dumb enough to accept that one video you dug up as the picture of the entire US Military.

Good job on your research and intellectual capabilities.

Well, when I posted this :

"It's just to bring it into perspective really . All we hear about is american heroes . I know the truth lies somewhere between my video of the useless ones and this mythical unseen video of american rambo's . But thats all they are , they aren't super heroes, they are just human . I'm just trying to bring the balance back where it belongs."

It was to denote that the truth does not wholly lie within the scope of one youtube video , it's just for balancing purposes against the tide of rabid tales of super heroes. Pity your research did not extend to reading that.

Originally posted by Drexl
Here we are on the subject of troops in Iraq, and you do a whole copy and paste to bring no more to the subject than burger bars .

I'm so sorry that you were only able to grasp that single bit from my post. Were my words too big?

Originally posted by Drexl
Unfortunately , I cannot help you in that direction, not all of us come from obviously the small town / farm environment that you are aquainted with where the choices are limited thus.

Limited choices, huh? That's the only reason you think someone would join the military?

Well, say hello to Ronald for me and find out what they put in the Secret Sauce.

Originally posted by Majestic23
Instead of making excuses for your government why not adivise against joining an irresponsible military?

So, since the government is screwing up, the military is irresponsible?

Originally posted by Majestic23
Maybe tell kids yeah, the army isn't all glory and they don't always look after you.

I tell that to anyone that wants to join the service.

short and not so sweet. I do not hate military personel. I was in desert storm i served my country well with honors.
everyone had a job, we all did it wether you liked it or not. We all worked our ass off in that dam dessert and out to sea in that black muck that was supposed to be water. all you could smell out there was the burning oil. Two things out there you watched, one was your ass. the other was the guy next to you for Your distant reminder lays on the road. The guy next to you picks up a hand and puts it in the sand and takes a picture of the thing with the middle finger sticking up and laughs. I guess he did get a last word in. want my opinion, you already know the answer. so yeh, i can have a little resentment, its my opinion. live with it, i did.

reply to post by jerico65


I am wary of replying to you . You offer nothing of substance to reply too . That really was all your post consisted of , burger bars . I think I can just about manage your linguistic dexterity . I will refrain from replying further to you , should this exchange continue in a similar fashion.

Originally posted by Drexl
I'm just trying to bring the balance back where it belongs."

And precisely where is it that the balance 'belongs'?

Would 50% of the population hating the military and believing it was evil make you happy? Is that the balance you are looking for?

I am talking of capabilities . That is your perogative to introduce emotional aspects into the equation if you wish . It is not unusual for these types of parameters to be included afterall , it is the driving force by which you gain the public's vote to go to war ultimately.

The military comes along with the whole package of an interaction with the world that is not based on facts or data, but upon idealism . At least superficially . On the surface , americans are not against making the world a better place , at least for them , a world somewhat in their image . They are the shining light afterall , a beacon in the dark murky cesspit of humanity. Apparantly . They believe they go to war for these emotional , aspirational , ideological reasons . Their government knows this , they are aware of the ideological fantasies the US public lives within, so they play that card . They tell them to fly the flag, support the troops, suport the cause of freedom . Whilst they wage war on another agenda totally . Wars that are not anything to do with freedom. But on the surface , idealism does play a role. It's the driving force afterall, even thou it is misguided and misdirected.

Wow,
That was quite the lecture.
Some of your posts come off as if you were just out of third grade and then others sound like an excerpt from the Magna Carta.

I'm not sure what to make of you but it is obvious you are accomplished at the rhetoric and have no problem throwing in an emotional issue or insult here or there yourself.

Your issue seems to be a dislike or hatred of America as a whole. It is unlikely that any degree of discourse would change your opinion on this issue but I am curious as to your opinions of other militaries besides that of the US.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


What world did you grow up on? Can't figure out who your enemy is at all, or is it that you don't recognize them until they plant their flag in your own front yard?

"Colonial Wars" by nature colonize the country in question. I can't think of any colonial wars America has fought since they themselves were colonies.

"Vietnam" wasn't a threat to the US, true enough. Our enemy there WAS a threat to the US, however. I found that out later, in Central America. Same people, different eyes. Matter of fact, a BUNCH of weapons, M16's specifically, were captured in Morazon in El Salvador, shipped there across the Golfo de Fonseca from Nicaragua. When the serial numbers were traced, it was found that they came from... TA DA! Vietnam. I don't care how you chop it up, a movement heading your way, with the stated goal of ENDING you, conquering every patch of land it encounters on the way, is a THREAT. If you don't stop it there, it might have more momentum than you can handle when it gets HERE. Same people, different eyes.

Only a fool would prefer to tear up his own country to tearing up the country of his enemy.

A "domino effect" was in play there too. The same domino effect that leftists so loved to deride in Southeast Asia as "nonexistent". Tell the Cambodians and Laotians that it was no-existent. They might beg to differ.

I didn't agree with going into Iraq when we did, but it would have had to have been done eventually anyhow. My only gripe was with the timing. It didn't make sense to me to take focus from the more imminent threat, in Afghanistan. Yes, I said imminent threat. The Taliban was providing aid, comfort, and refuge to Al Qaida, who you may recall are our enemies, They are one with Al Qaida in thought and mindset. That makes them our enemies too.

Colonial war in Afghanistan? What could they possibly have there that would make it worthwhile to colonize? Have you ever BEEN to Afghanistan? I'll tell ya what, I never dreamed of building my summer house there.

Finally: "the rise in terrorism due to Afghanistan / iraq, actually killed more Americans and made us less safe". That's bunk. It's a "talking point" to discuss over glasses of kool aid.

You want ice with that kool aid?

It's a transit route from the caspian sea , central asian oil and gas fields . It's apparantly rich in mineral deposits , untapped as yet . And likely to remain so . The graveyard of empires they call it , and not for no good reason . It is the supply route that chokes them in the end . So it will be for your obama.

I would like to see the US stay in afghanstan . It is hell on earth, that is the place that will sap the resources and the spirits . Even Alexander gave up on it . They are talking about using the route through Georgia to keep these new troops supplied , but that is a long long way , horrendous logistics . Pakistan is still the easiest route , but they don't like you too much , drone attacks and all . It's not easy .

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Drexl]

Originally posted by maddogron
after reading everyones thread here, you all are missing the point about the military. The Neo-cons are brilliant and have/will blindside everyone with the "marching orders".. BLACKWATER is a great way to bypass all laws, rights, and media. It is a huge operation!!!! I am amazed at the lack of insight by the media. professional mercenaries are in place, from chile, columbia, mexico, and us... navy seals, special forces, rangers are all employed AND paid a very handsome amount of money $655 per day for the typical grunt... and they are hiring like crazy right now. I am truely amazed how much veterans are being hired for services. the typical us soldier has too much "rule of engagement" to be used... mercenaries are free to do whatever... look at New orleans.. there were incidents there... keep your eyes open for this push..

Another slap at mercenaries.

I will wipe your mud and spit from myself, and keep pushing forward, ignoring you as I go.

I will do that because I can, and I don't require your approval, nor do I require you to select 'enemies' for me. I am able to do that for myself.

I will do it because I am NOT what you claim. Your labels mean nothing to me, and do NOT change the contents of the package.

I will do it not for you, nor your government, nor your corporations. I will do it for my friends, my family. I will do it for my son.

And I will do it for 'mercenaries' I remember, who died in faraway places, in the hope that you wouldn't have to do it here. Men who died fighting enemies that your government, under Carter, supported in a backhanded sort of way, who died fighting the very evil that your own government welcomed and supported.

I will do it because your input isn't required for me to do what needs done.




Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,

The hour when earth's foundations fled,

Followed their mercenary calling,

And took their wages, and are dead.



Their shoulders held the sky suspended;

They stood, and earth's foundations stay;

What God abandoned, these defended,

And saved the sum of things for pay.

--A.E. Housman

My big, tough, evil ass sits here typing this with tears in my eyes, not because of your opinion, but rather because of the memory of the men you malign.

nenothtu out

[edit on 2009/6/25 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by Amagnon
The problem isn't bad soldiers, its bad commanders - those who are controlled by money, and will never be anywhere near the danger zone.

Its hard to blame soldiers - often they are young and poorly educated (as is most of the US anyhow) - so they simply can't see that what they are supporting is evil.

The biased media portrays the military as heroes - so these young people just believe it. They are of course murderers of innocent people - and god help them when they realize that.

On the one hand the soldiers are victims of lies - on the other hand, they still have a choice - no matter what pressure is applied, we all have a choice.

I'm not 'poorly educated', but in any event, one should never confuse education with intelligence. I perceive that you do, and there must be some reason for that. Of course I'm not young anymore, either.

I've never murdered anyone, innocent or not. I'm sure as hell not anyone's 'hero', media or not, biased or not. Nor am I a 'victim' of anyone or anything. I've never supported 'evil' unknowingly or not. I made my decisions eyes wide open, and they're still wide open.

You're way out in left field.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
What about Blackwater and all the mercenaries that will kill anyone for money ?

Are these all brave American war heroes as well ?

What about when California busts wide open and the rioting begins?

Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys when the US military start firing on Californians with live ammo ?

Would killing Americans be "saving America".

Yet ANOTHER slap at mercenaries, by the unknowing. My reply above goes for you too.

Good thing for you that mercs are an even-tempered, easy-going bunch.

By the way, one of the dead mercenaries I mentioned above was an Aussie, from someplace called 'Albany'. I thought that was in New York, but he set me straight.

And yeah, you bet your ass he was a hero.

Originally posted by brackforce
I can say, however, that people on my team went to Iraq right before I arrived and told me some very interesting things. For example: Everyone talks about WMDs and how they didn't exist in Iraq. I'm assuming the media is harping on that fact because they're talking about nukes in particular, but WMDs come in various forms including, but not limited to BIOLOGICAL weapons capable of killing THOUSANDS of people. These are considered WMDs and MY TEAM found some in Iraq. They did exist and they were found. Why wasn't that on the news?

[edit on 20-6-2009 by brackforce]

Yeah, some VX gas filled shells were found rigged into IED's in Iraq too, and that didn't get much airplay here either. For the uninformed, VX gas is also a WMD, and use of gas WMDs has been banned by international law since WW I, when so many were permanently maimed by Mustard Gas. Saddam used gas against both Iran AND the Kurds, so it obviously WAS there. If no one found it, where did it go?

That's a couple of the reasons I get a kick out of "progressives" whining about the "biased media". I don't know why they whine, it's biased in their favor....

reply to post by nenothtu


Neno,

Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,

The hour when earth's foundations fled,

Followed their mercenary calling,

And took their wages, and are dead.



Their shoulders held the sky suspended;

They stood, and earth's foundations stay;

What God abandoned, these defended,

And saved the sum of things for pay.

--A.E. Housman

Two words that say so little and mean so much.

Thank you.

gracie

[edit on 25-6-2009 by silo13]