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Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

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posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
So you did reply: good now we're getting somewhere. You don't believe civil disobediance is effective? I disagree, but it's off-topic. The implied question is do you think it takes more courage to engage in it than it does to shoot people? Which follows on from my 1st question which you did not answer but avoided: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM THAT US NON-MILITARY TYPES ARE ALL COWARDS? Btw, I dont care if your job isn't just killing, a military force is deployed to kill anyone that opposes it & threaten anyone else into submission. In the same way that a group of US felons are all guilty of murder if 1 of them kills during a robbery, all invading military in theatre are collectively responsible for any death there. Oh but hang on, you've quit again... I'm not surprised. It was a ridiculous assertion & now you're embarrassed by it. Know what else takes courage? Admitting one was wrong.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
You don't believe civil disobediance is effective? I disagree, but it's off-topic. The implied question is do you think it takes more courage to engage in it than it does to shoot people?


Not in the US. Civil Disobediance might get you a few nights in jail unless you decide to get in some cop's face, then you might get a busted head to go with your time in the slam. Not much risk.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Which follows on from my 1st question which you did not answer but avoided: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM THAT US NON-MILITARY TYPES ARE ALL COWARDS?


I think the citizens who are always talking smack about the military or whatever and don't back up their talk with action are. But anyone that talks the talk but doesn't want to walk the walk is, regardless.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Btw, I dont care if your job isn't just killing, a military force is deployed to kill anyone that opposes it & threaten anyone else into submission. In the same way that a group of US felons are all guilty of murder if 1 of them kills during a robbery, all invading military in theatre are collectively responsible for any death there.


Nice work with the broad brush. Does that include the chaplains that are assigned to divisions/squadrons, etc? What about the hospital personnel that treat civilians? Or the cooks slopping hash in the DFAC? Or the engineers that are building schools and digging wells?

Oh, and really nice touch using felons to compare with US military personnel.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
Strawman means to put words in my mouth to provide yourself with an easy target to reply to. I never said you should revolt: you made it up to rant @. I'll get to Jerico eventually. For now I'm more interested in this cowardice accusation. You say you weren't talking to me? I dont care who you were talking to. Justify the statement or be seen as wrong. Simple debate rules: survival of the fittest ideas.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Drexl
 


Why are you sitting where ever you are, making a mockery of these men and women that are standing by their oath to do something that obviously you have no intentions of doing? Do you think you can perform calmly under fire, I doubt it very seriously. So why are you making fun or them?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Thank you for your service



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 
So because some regimes are worse, I'm wrong to call corporate America's stranglehold on the political system evil? Give me a break! I never mentioned insurgents: just another strawman. We're talking about courage in general amongst anyone, related to the specific accusation that all us non-military are cowards. Still, if my home was invaded & suicide bombing seemed the only way to fight the occupiers & their supporters... Nah, I'd be looking for ways of peaceful noncompliance to make staying as difficult & expensive as possible, whilst going for international support until such times as the invaders were demoralised & reduced in number enough to be fought successfully (like Viet Nam). Nor did I say all American troops are cowards, but rather that there are braver people around. But, re the Germans - after the initial push into France, they were poorly equipped, low on gasoline & ammo, poorly fed & their best troops were exhausted. Re: Korea - badly equipped & fed from the start. I'm no expert on dragon skin true. I have ordinary Kevlar with ceramic inserts & I'm hoping that with a Gortex jacket on top it will stop even large calibre pistol rounds or 9mm ball from an MP5. It's hot to wear, the vest doesn't have a groin piece & I realise that against 5.56 rifle rounds I'd be f**ked, but any body armour is better than none. Are you seriously claiming I'm wrong on this?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM THAT US NON-MILITARY TYPES ARE ALL COWARDS?

I've said this once already and I'm not saying it again on this thread or this site.

I never said ALL non-military types were ALL cowards. You accuse me of making a strawman out of you when you sit here and do the same to me.

I described the specific type of people I'm talking about.

Do you fit that bill?

Do you sit at home on your sofa and get fatter every day. Do you believe everything your favorite news outlet tells you? Do you have the gall to sit where it is that you are and denounce me for my chosen profession?

If you answered yes to that specific description then - there's your evidence. You're a coward.

If you don't fit that specific description then shove off pal. I'm not talking about you and the other contributing members of any society. Just the ones dragging us all down.

I'm sick of the bellyaching. Get over it. If you really took that much offense to what was said - then I can only deduce it applies to you as well. If that is so -
I'm sure one day you'll be alright.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


Oh, and one more thing.

I may support the right to free speech for cowards to harass me and my men, but you better be damned sure I show no remorse for telling people like it is just the same.

I defend that right but I didn't give it up.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 
Well, since you keep harping on about Iraq, how about civil disobedience there? More likely to get you a few years @Gitmo, or since it's being shut, extraordinarily rendered to some country where a US private 'defence' contractor can oversee a proper mangling.

Originally posted by jerico65 But anyone that talks the talk but doesn't want to walk the walk is [a coward], regardless.
What would you define as walking the walk? Does someone have to enlist, or like me do you recognise that many people have & still are showing great courage without a uniform? Re: felons - what other group that kills people in a collective exercise should I have used to compare to then? & yes, I do mean everyone: pastors, cooks, mail clerks, whatever. You were there: you had a part in it. Whatever the consequences, you are partly responsible.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
So because some regimes are worse, I'm wrong to call corporate America's stranglehold on the political system evil? Give me a break!


Whatever. It might be bad, but people on ATS fail to see that there is worse out there.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
I never mentioned insurgents: just another strawman. We're talking about courage in general amongst anyone, related to the specific accusation that all us non-military are cowards.


Shucks, sorry I got specific on you.




Originally posted by Bunken Drum
I'm no expert on dragon skin true. I have ordinary Kevlar with ceramic inserts & I'm hoping that with a Gortex jacket on top it will stop even large calibre pistol rounds or 9mm ball from an MP5. It's hot to wear, the vest doesn't have a groin piece & I realise that against 5.56 rifle rounds I'd be f**ked, but any body armour is better than none. Are you seriously claiming I'm wrong on this?


Goretex has no ballistic protection; it's used in vest to try to keep guys cool.

Dragonskin failed the Army tests. It's neither here nor there with this thread, but knock yourself out if you want to hump it.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Well, since you keep harping on about Iraq, how about civil disobedience there? More likely to get you a few years @Gitmo, or since it's being shut, extraordinarily rendered to some country where a US private 'defence' contractor can oversee a proper mangling.


If everyone that protested in Iraq were arrested, the country would probably be empty by now. Notice that they are allowed to protest there; didn't see too many when Saddam was in power, did you?


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
What would you define as walking the walk? Does someone have to enlist, or like me do you recognise that many people have & still are showing great courage without a uniform?


Nope, just anyone that doesn't back up their words with actions, that's what I meant. Thought it was pretty clear. But are you comparing waving a sign and shouting slogans to a Soldier on the battlefield? As I said, protesting in the US isn't too deadly.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Re: felons - what other group that kills people in a collective exercise should I have used to compare to then? & yes, I do mean everyone: pastors, cooks, mail clerks, whatever. You were there: you had a part in it. Whatever the consequences, you are partly responsible.


As I said before, you're an expert with that broad brush.

First of all, Soldiers don't murder in combat and comparing them to felons is asinine.

The percentage of troops actually fighting are small compared to those supporting. Grouping them all together with the triggerpullers is also asinine. And as I pointed out, those supporting are also doing a lot for the civilians in the region, too.

Knock yourself out if you want to call them all baby killers when they get off the plane, tho.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
Well I will say it again & quote you again:

post by mf_luder You are all cowards. All of you. You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here.
No strawman, you said all of us. Still, as you've since qualified your position, just exactly who on this thread are you accusing of being a fat sofa hound MSM victim & do you have any evidence? Or is it the case that you were throwing out a wild generalisation based on nothing more than a stereotypical view of people you dont agree with, in the belief that nobody would call you on it? The fact we are on ATS ought to tell you people here are looking elsewhere than MSM for info & FYI, I dont own a sofa, but @times I have, sitting on it didn't prevent me from doing right by my principals, of which campaigning against imperialist aggression & to get its perps stopped & where possible jailed is an important one. Ooh check out "the gall" lol! I'm going to bed: back later with bile & spleen too...



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by mf_luder
 
Well I will say it again & quote you again:

post by mf_luder You are all cowards. All of you. You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here.
No strawman, you said all of us. Still, as you've since qualified your position, just exactly who on this thread are you accusing of being a fat sofa hound MSM victim & do you have any evidence? Or is it the case that you were throwing out a wild generalisation based on nothing more than a stereotypical view of people you dont agree with, in the belief that nobody would call you on it? The fact we are on ATS ought to tell you people here are looking elsewhere than MSM for info & FYI, I dont own a sofa, but @times I have, sitting on it didn't prevent me from doing right by my principals, of which campaigning against imperialist aggression & to get its perps stopped & where possible jailed is an important one. Ooh check out "the gall" lol! I'm going to bed: back later with bile & spleen too...


Really, name calling? How old are we again?

You're taking one piece out of my entire post and using that one piece to form the basis of your argument.

So far, you're the only one who has directly called me on it - yet you keep insisting that you don't fit the stereotype I called out.

So what is your malfunction?



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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For anyone who would sit at their computer desk in Anytown America, make up a false screen name, sign on to this site, and insult an American soldier.... I laugh at you and your "manhood, family, upbringing, children, job.... insert whatever else makes you a person..." None of you can give a straight answer to OP's question because it holds true.

You are all cowards. All of you.

You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here. You'd let the (chinese, russian, Iraqi, Iranian, etc, etc, etc.....) militaries come in and take. You don't have the intelligence or the initiative to actually go out and learn about us as people and what the military really stands for.


Since you seem incapable of providing us all with the rest of my post for the context that one bit was in - there it is.

Do you fit that bill?

Do you feel a sense of tingly giddiness signing on and insulting US Soldiers?

If you don't - then you are taking my entire rant out of context and just being pissy. Don't come to me and try to stand up for those types of people, because you're just as bad as they are.

You think it's okay for us to get bashed left and right by people who have no clue wth they're talking about - oh - that's all hunky dory - but as soon as one of us speaks up.... OH NOES!!!! THE BIG BAD US ARMY SOLDIER IS BELITTLING US ALL!!!!!!......

Grow the hell up and quit taking bits and pieces of stuff to suit your own needs. That's EXTREMELY liberal of you.
.....and MSM-like.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


www.youtube.com...

This is pretty much what I equate your average level of intelligence in the sofa-lovers these days.

Enjoy until it gets pulled!!!!




posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
What are they protecting anyone from? Can anyone answer that question?


From the bad man. He is out there. He would love to kill you because you have things he cannot have. He is jealous, evil, sneaky, and a killer. You don't know who he is and you probably never will. So for now, all you need to know is that. If you ever want to know what he looks like, join the military.
Become a Marine and go see him. They will take you to his front door. Until then, be glad the bad man is still at his house and not yours.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Majestic23
What are they protecting anyone from? Can anyone answer that question?


From the bad man. He is out there. He would love to kill you because you have things he cannot have. He is jealous, evil, sneaky, and a killer. You don't know who he is and you probably never will. So for now, all you need to know is that. If you ever want to know what he looks like, join the military.
Become a Marine and go see him. They will take you to his front door. Until then, be glad the bad man is still at his house and not yours.


Oh, there are plenty of bad men out there. Perhaps as many as 1-5% of the general population. Ponerology again, the study of the macrosocial consequences of psychopathy. However, will the military really be going after this profile? Or will they be lead by them?

Killing a million Iraqis and who knows how many Afghanis because of the supposed act of a group of saudis during 911 (Saudi Arabia, you know that big country in the middle of the middle east everyone is so happy to deal with despite the fact that it's government is all but medieval) does not qualify as going after "bad men". It qualifies as stupidity.

You guys are cannon fodder. I keep trying to make you realise this. Contrary to the loaded title of this thread, which clearly shows bias, the american military, when overseas, does not protect america. What it does is play in the british "great game" of world dominance. What it does is permit elitists to enforce political leverage with physical violence.

Want to protect america? Stop being so gullible. Most of you are good people, so stop living in denial of what's happening and then do what you know in your heart to be right. I wont even pretend to know what that is, but I'm just here showing what the problem is.

Again: ponerology, this word deserves some study by anyone who wants to really understand whats going on. By anyone who really wants to know where male dominance society goes wrong and where civilization hits it's current limits.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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USA now(since 1870-) is evil and genocidal, so any soldier who protects it is evil .

the only good USA was the USA created by George Washington (which Ron Paul endorses)

if good USA does not return , then Russia must destroy USA to save the world from the jaws of this monstrous american evil



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by Mindmelding
 


you tell me what you propose. Do you think that every last American soldier should not re-enlist and we should let the millitary disapear? Should the US just take a chance that nobody will invade us when we have no way to defend ourselves? Do you honestly think that every other country on the face of the earth would just be kind hearted little people and try to stay away from us? Please don't be that stupid. Anyone smart enough to know where the power button on the computer is should know your way won't work.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Kombatt98
 


so Russia is a perfect model government and society? care to explain that?



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