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Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

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posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Drexl
 


Super heroes?

LOL

I never said "we" (American Soldiers) were "super heroes."

You, sir have never been over there. Do you know what artillery sounds like? Oh - that's right - there are movies you can watch.

I've been in 3 IED strikes which nearly killed me. All you hear is the explosion for a second and everything shakes. What else causes an explosion that makes everything shake?

There's a long list.

The US Army is trained to take cover when explosions start going off, especially if there is the off-chance it is artillery. Sure, those kids you found that video of were scared and cowering - but they were doing like they were supposed to... waiting for the explosions to end.

I've been in a running fight while mortars were dropping around me. You don't know what it is to be surrounded by explosions and keep going.

Don't presume to wave your one little video about and act like the entire lot of us are a bunch of cowardly children who don't know the end of a rifle from our left butt cheek.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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I think I should clear something up here.

I know a lot of people don't like Americans - I hear it a lot, I see it a lot on this site and others, and frankly - I don't care.

But - I think there is a huge misconception the world over about us and what we think about other countries.

It's not that we think we're better than any other country. You'll never hear me say that - you won't hear my friends say that - hell - I fought to get a posting in Germany and can't wait to get over there so I can visit Europe. The real issue is that we just don't care about any of you.

It sounds bad - but look at it this way. If you live down the street from someone and they are having issues with their plumbing and their cat won't eat a certain type of food, do you really care? lol - no.

I mean for Christ's sake - people in the US sometimes don't even care about other states in THE US!!!!! You expect us to really deeply care about some country half the size of Texas 4000 miles away? No!!! It's not that we're arrogant, you just aren't a major part of our lives. Sorry. It'll be okay. They have counseling for you.

A lot of Americans will tell you they have no problems with other countries, but when it boils down to it, your politics, your economy, your military - it just doesn't matter, because its YOURS. Maybe people who are busy making it known how much they hate the big bad Americans should start focusing their energy on fixing their countries and their internal issues. Yay! You hate Americans!!! ........now what?



[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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I don't believe our Soldiers or what not are evil. That doesn't mean they aren't blind. Nor does that mean that although they are good that they aren't lead by people with evil intentions.

I have a question for our volunteers. A simpe question about a fanstasy world....

Lets say our President belives the only way to protect the people is to become leader for life. He calls for marshal law, takes away multiple rights laid down in the constitution, and the death of any who are against his new American. WHAT DO YOU DO?

Do you serve your President or do you serve the constitution?

oh use the word democracy carefully. There are many evils in democracy and throughout history most have failed leading to other forms of government. Plato himself said that democracy was only second to tyranny. America is a Republic first. The only way to keep a democracy in check is for the rule of law to have all power. When the rule of law begins to falter you get the America we are beginning to see today. And it's not only government it's the people too who are at falt. People who want to bring down the evil government risk anarcy, which is risky and never last leading to something else. At which point the whole thing starts over again.

Even the founding fathers made sure that the US wasn't a pure democracy. Tis why they always used the word "REPUBLIC"

[edit on 21-6-2009 by George Patton]

[edit on 21-6-2009 by George Patton]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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My one little video of so called super heroes wanting their mommy is one more than you have of the lost rambo's in action . Anyway , you presume too much in your general dismissal of my knowledge of such ordinance . Just because there are mugs like you running around avoiding such devices , does not mean that those not in the firing line have not some input on their design and facilitation . Though I doubt it would affect you , telemetry and hitting grunts is not the aspired marriage .

I do not know why you protest so against this video . Obviously they are taken to scurrying around in the dirt from the reading of their manuals that teach them so, it has nothing to do with abject fear . They are obviously shouting that way , in a form of a war cry to scare off the enemy , not praying that the next bomb does not hit . This video should be used as a training guide for new recruits , how to act in the event of a mortar attack . You could lead it up with a fine introduction , of the merits of tactical awareness of hostile projectories and appropriate pre emptive evasive actions . I bet you would write back to general staff with commendations for them all.

You are wasted going to germany , the US admin needs you on the front line , in the media, you could tell the public how these brave troops avoided incessant enemy artillery shelling by high calibre ordinance to bravely place the US flag upon their building roof once they had obeyed operation procedures to refrain from exiting their abode whilst insurgent activity remained significant. How the operating procedures had saved their lives, but prevented this brave bunch from taking out the mortar firing insurgents single handed.

Do they actually write manuals and operations procedures to teach them to do that stuff ? I bet it says things like 'duck' if theres a low flying aircraft passing by, or 'swim' if they got to reach an amphibious vessel or 'run' if out of ammo and the enemy is close at heel... they could make a monty python film from this book.


[edit on 21-6-2009 by Drexl]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by George Patton
I don't believe our Soldiers or what not are evil. That doesn't mean they aren't blind. Nor does that mean that although they are good that they aren't lead by people with evil intentions.

I have a question for our volunteers. A simpe question about a fanstasy world....

Lets say our President belives the only way to protect the people is to become leader for life. He calls for marshal law, takes away multiple rights laid down in the constitution, and the death of any who are against his new American. WHAT DO YOU DO?

Do you serve your President or do you serve the constitution?

oh use the word democracy carefully. There are many evils in democracy and throughout history most have failed leading to other forms of government. Plato himself said that democracy was only second to tyranny. America is a Republic first. The only way to keep a democracy in check is for the rule of law to have all power. When the rule of law begins to falter you get the America we are beginning to see today. And it's not only government it's the people too who are at falt. People who want to bring down the evil government risk anarcy, which is risky and never last leading to something else. At which point the whole thing starts over again.

Even the founding fathers made sure that the US wasn't a pure democracy. Tis why they always used the word "REPUBLIC"

[edit on 21-6-2009 by George Patton]

[edit on 21-6-2009 by George Patton]


The answer to that question is easy.

The constitution.

I don't serve a man - I serve the ideals set forth by the constitution and when they go away - so do I.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
Why certainly:

post by mf_luder You are all cowards. All of you.
You wouldn't fight to defend your family if we weren't here.
What else can that possibly be taken to mean other than that unless we are enlisted, we have no courage? As for braggadocio, I see you felt the need for more in responding to my barb about being held back. Not nice to have ones courage called into question on a flimsy pretext is it? But @least I had a pretext, where as your assertion seems pure prejudice. Perhaps you'll now do me the courtesy of responding to my question? Or maybe attempt to refute my assertion that the way of peace, eg Ghandi style civil disobedience, takes more fortitude than shooting people? Especially when you know you are better trained than your enemy, your weapon is better, you're wearing dragon skin body armour & he isn't & you've got overwhelming air &/or artillery support a radio message away.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Especially when you know you are better trained than your enemy, your weapon is better, you're wearing dragon skin body armour & he isn't & you've got overwhelming air &/or artillery support a radio message away.


So? The idea of going to war or fighting is to do it the best you can. You bring your best weapons, your best troops, and you kill the enemy and leaving him rotting in the sun. Simple.

And Dragon Skin sucks.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
For the record, I dont hate Americans. I have friends in Ohio, Texas, New York & Maine & over here friends from California, DC & Kentucky. If they weren't good people, I wouldn't associate with them. Most of them are so depressed about what the USA has become they say things like, "Jed Bartlett was my president. I don't want to even talk about it." What I do hate tho is willful ignorance. You don't care cos you dont know? Yeah, right there is the reason the world can have no greater priority than resisting American influence.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Tour18
 


Your post made my stomach turn. I am also a veteran, still currently serving. If you want, I can start listing history that will show there have ALWAYS been members of the military whose conduct was the same, if not worse, than the two that killed the nurse. So get off your high horse. By and large, today's US military is just as honorable as it was in the past.

As for the posters who wonder exactly why we went into Iraq. Read some frigging history books. Do some research into Saddam Hussien and what his money financed, and was still financing up until the day he had to hide in that spider hole. Then remember the days after 9/11. We vowed that we were no longer going to sit back and wait to get hit again. We were going to take action to defend ourselves. If you truly think that Saddam Hussien wasnt financing terrorists that meant to kill more Americans then you are ignorant of the facts.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


For the record, I dont hate Americans.

Then nothing I've posted to this point in time has directly targeted you.

So what is the problem?

I present a face of a US Soldier for you to bash a bit and get your jollies off?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 
Have you read the rest of this thread? We are talking about courage because mf_luder seems to be claiming that the military should be absolved of their responsibility for perpetuating the designs of an evil regime because they are courageous, whereas I am saying that whilst American troops may well be quite brave, they have little on those who oppose tyranny with whatever comes to hand & nothing @all on those who do so with nothing but their body & conviction that their willingness to be killed will eventually overcome those who would kill them's willingness to carry on their oppression. Furthermore, if courage is the yardstick by which we should measure whether a person is good or bad, since almost every enemy US troops have faced were either poorly equipped, badly fed &/or exhausted by prior conflict, we could conclude that those enemies were braver & thus more in the right. Dragon skin sucks? Better than a shirt tho, eh?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


So what do you suggest?

That the US Military turn on our own government?

Are you attempting to foment a mass subversion? Or a revolution?

Where are the grounds for such a measure and what basis do you have for doing so?

You realize that while - yes I'm a (evil American Soldier, an anonymous face on a website, etc, etc, etc,) I'm also a US Counterintelligence Agent? If you think that's posturing or some bs because I'm fronting - I'd be more than happy to contact you directly with proof.

I refuse to pursue this line of conversation with you. The ORIGINAL question of this thread was if the US Soldiers who protect America were bad, not if we should overthrow our government or if the war in Iraq was illegal or not. I believe those are topics for another thread.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 

Then nothing I've posted to this point in time has directly targeted you.
So what is the problem?
I present a face of a US Soldier for you to bash a bit and get your jollies off?
Oh right, because I could only disagree with you if I hate you. Er, no. It's called respect. Should I take it that you cannot answer my points or is it that you simply dont have enough respect for me to do so? Waiting... for those jollies. No, it turns out I am sincere. I disagree. Debate me. Waiting...



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


I have already answered your question.

Read my posts.

I'm not going to sit here and play the repeat the question game with you.


EDIT

If this is the "new" question:

Or maybe attempt to refute my assertion that the way of peace, eg Ghandi style civil disobedience, takes more fortitude than shooting people?

First of all - who said being in the Army meant my only job is to shoot people? I wish it were that simple sometimes. I abhor killing as much as the next man, but when it comes down to the line and it's me or them - lol - you better believe it isn't going to be me.

Civil style disobedience only works in a democracy where peace and freedom is observed. See how well that style of protest would work in North Korea. People would be wiped out for it. It may take a lot of fortitude to leave your home and go wave signs around for a few hours and stand in front of tanks.... but I'm inclined to believe that the situation is avoided by having a standing military to repel such a situation in the first place. (Having foreign tanks in your country - not protests)

So no - I don't believe civil disobedience would work against an armed aggressor. You would be destroyed in a heartbeat by a country willing to travel the miles it takes to get here and storm our streets. No amount of protests or marching would make an armed foreign aggressor stop and go home.



[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


Mf_luder - I would just like to say all of your posts speak one-hundred percent truth.

There are facts and opinions - you give the facts.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Have you read the rest of this thread? We are talking about courage because mf_luder seems to be claiming that the military should be absolved of their responsibility for perpetuating the designs of an evil regime because they are courageous...


Evil Regime? Give me a break. Last I checked, the US Government wasn't throwing people into woodchippers like Saddam did to get his jollies, along with his two ass-hat sons.

And let's not compare the US to other countries that are running some sort of Gulag system in this day and age.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
....whereas I am saying that whilst American troops may well be quite brave, they have little on those who oppose tyranny with whatever comes to hand & nothing @all on those who do so with nothing but their body & conviction that their willingness to be killed will eventually overcome those who would kill them's willingness to carry on their oppression.


Yeah, I guess you consider the insurgents "Freedom Fighters", huh? Tell me, how are insurgents "Opposing tyranny" by blowing themselves up in a crowded market, killing women and children? How is that "overcoming their opppression"?


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Furthermore, if courage is the yardstick by which we should measure whether a person is good or bad, since almost every enemy US troops have faced were either poorly equipped, badly fed &/or exhausted by prior conflict, we could conclude that those enemies were braver & thus more in the right.


Yeah, all American soldiers are cowards or just pick on a weaker enemy. Put away the computer and read up on World War Two (and Korea), then get back to me, since you are a major No-Go at this station.


Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Dragon skin sucks? Better than a shirt tho, eh?


Do some research on Dragon Skin before you post about something you don't know anything about.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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IMO, it's not just a soldiers responsibility to defend the constitution, it's the obligation of every person who is a citizen of the US. It's too easy to point at us soldiers and say that we aren't doing our job , and we're losing our rights. As a US citizen, it is ALL of our job to ensure our inalienable rights aren't violated or taken away. ALL of us need to ensure that our elected officials are doing the jobs we voted them in to do. It's our elected officials who point us soldiers in the direction they want us to fight or invade. Soldiers come from all walks of life and locations. The same way you'll find good and bad across the US, you'll find good and bad in the military. As an MP, I was held to higher standard. That doesn't mean that all MP's lived up to that standard, tho.

Just tossing my thoughts into the mix



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 
Please dont strawman me, it lowers the tone of the thread, makes you look foolish & wastes post space because I'd look equally stupid if I didn't point it out. I've said before, I'm not big on 'shoulds', but if I were you what I would do is resign. Btw, I dont care who you are. I've had 2 US governors on my case for my online activities so counter away pal, & good luck to you lol! Fyi, I've already answered the OP: a post nobody chose to reply to, probably cos I dont fit the stereotype of 'whiny liberal', but let's have a little honesty: you won't continue cos you've been caught out talking sh*t, plain & simple.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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Who's trying to strawman you?

WTH does that mean anyway?

I answered your last question. Isn't that what you asked me to do?

Furthermore, maybe you should focus on Jerico's post - he's the one directly targeting you here, not me. I was targeting a specific group of people, and if you fit in that group -

[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]
I feel for you. If not - then shove off.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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What are they protecting anyone from? Can anyone answer that question?



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