How can reincarnation exist if we see the ghosts of relatives?

From what ive been told some people reincarnate multiple times at the same time so they can experience more of life faster. So the spirits you see could be a part of that higher self reincarnating.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by supay

 

That is very interesting! What you say about the different ways people "move on" after dying. I can see exactly what you're saying. People who have been ingrained with religion not moving on because, well, in their minds (even after death), they're just not supposed to. I can see people being so attached to the physical world that, once they die, they refuse to let go of it, especially it's "sinful" pleasures.

Thank you so much for that perspective. I love hearing new things!

autowrench: I certainly agree with that, nunya13. A soul can, and sometimes does stay here around Third Dimension Earth and the things/people they loved or hated. And I also agree that each soul "moves on" in that particular soul's way, and to where that soul wants to go, for reflection, solace, study, and parties. Some of us are from other Star systems, most of us actually, because Earth in the Third Dimension is a school, a college, and place of contentment, and a prison. One could look at this as either Heaven or Hell, I have heard it called both many times.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I think that we all have a 'prime image' that exists in the spiritual rhelm always. This prime self always sees with a divine eye and helps set processes for the soul to learn.

autowrench: I agree with you about the "Prime Image," this would be the original image of the Divine Self, right? From that original design, we all travel and mutate, because in the scope of the universe all souls are trying to come together. I have met my "Higher Self," my "God within," and I can see what religions have such a hey day with fear and dogma. Mine were actually two, male and female, and were identical twins, only one was decidedly male, the other female. Both had beautiful wings, and didn't speak, but transferred thought instead.

Originally posted by LeoVirgoWhile in the flesh...we can only perceive and accept certain things. I believe in many dimensions and sometimes think these bleed together. My mate see's another me alot and I think this is another me that is bleeding through in some way with me here. I totally believe somehow someway...we are really in more then one place at one time in a consciousness way, quantum science kinda thinking.

autowrench: Again, I am in agreement with you. As human beings we are bound to third dimension physics and laws, plus we are trapped here, that is, prevented from a full escape, by a Matrix type software program. this mind controls, entertains, punishes, makes you flush or lean. And, the different dimensions, being alike only in some respects, and beginning to bleed over into each other, I myself have felt and experiences of a shift in dimensions from one day to the next. From reading posts in this forum, I have seen that others have felt this effect also. Also, anyone who knows about Montauk knows about the Time-Lines, and how one was recorded and fed back into the original to produce a clone dimension, the one we live in right now. We are no longer on the time-Line of Christ, and Abraham, and Solomon, we are on a new course, provided my those we like to call many names, and no one knows for certain who they are. At times, I have read every 20 years or so, the Time-Lines cross each other. I have to think that the men responsible for the Montauk Experiments are trying to repair what they have done, and perhaps they can, or maybe they would not wish to.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by ufoptics
Ok.....Lets get this straight...we reincarnate to basically better our souls, correct?

We do? Who told you that? And why would you believe it? Because it is so commonly accepted? Well the Bible is commonly accepted to by lots of people, doesn't make it true.

Assuming we are here to evolve and reincarnate into "better" beings is judgement, pure and simple. Not at all unlike the Christians that judge people will either go to heaven or hell. It is all BS.

I think reincarnation could quite possibly exist for some, but the whole silly judgement thing is just the same old human mind making up rules to empower itself.
[edit on 20-6-2009 by Sonya610]

Well, Sonya610, I also happen to think that at least some souls come here to advance themselves in a spiritual manner. Earth is a place of learning, and even now anything at all can be researched with the World Wide Web, and truth can easily be separated from tales.

Most humans think in a linear manner, straight on they go, when the human comes to an obstacle, bang! they hit it, and make up their "mind" that this is either true or false, this is either to be accepted, or denied. I have often said that the mind, or what we think of as that word, is more of a collective thing, not like a Borg system, but rather an Energy Stream that is always present for all of us. When we come into this world as a newborn, our collective memories are erased by the birth "waters." this is a direct connection, like a T-1 line, to the Source of divinity, call it what you like, it is all the same thing.

Some humans think in a completely different way. They think in a multi-dimensional way. That is, instead of just seeing one side of a thing/problem, they see it in all dimensions and ways. Has this ever happened to you, men? You wife/significant other makes a new friend of the opposite sex. You go into freak out mode, your mind conjuring up all different images of things going on, all in your own mind. Later you come to know it was all in your mind. I'm sure most will recognize this in themselves at one time or another. So we all do it some of the time, and some of us do it all the time. New connections are made, new contacts are formed. Back up comes from your children, which are being born.

I will leave you all with this thought. Telepathy is coming to us, folks. It is happening to me, and my contacts report like feelings, we are beginning to hear other people's thoughts on a massive level. Soon there will be no secrets, all will know. We will never know everything there is to know, only the parts we are allowed to access. Knowing everything would be pretty boring, anyway. I believe that soon, perhaps a few months from now, many people are going to die. I do not know how, and there are many theories. Anyway, there will be many people/personalities/souls that will enter a new dimension in a heartbeat, all together. I believe that beings from other dimensions will try to distract us, our Immortal Spirit, that is, and lead us down a dark path. Tell me America and the rest of the world isn't on a dark path right now, we kill each other and have great weapons of terror that can wipe out everything on Planet Earth several times over. We, the human race, have all but destroyed this planet with our sloth and greed, we have poisoned the air, the ground, and the waters.
We have ignored the signs the Ancients left for us, for our hidden masters have hidden this from us. The true history of Planet Earth has not yet been told to this cycle of humanity, and is known only to a few of the privileged class, the secret societies.

We are all on a journey through time and space. The cycle we are running on will soon come to an end, many agree on this, and as humans do, will attach names for it, many names exist already. Blessing for all, thanks for listening.

reply to post by chillpill


Idk about the two to three years thing, I think it all depends on each person/ soul group. Alot of people incarnate together/ remain on the other side to wait so they can incarnate together for several reasons:
1.) karmic debt to the surviving members of the family; this can mean either they owe the members a debt or the member owes them a debt which has not been paid in this lifetime.
2.)They have a very strong bond with others in their group and only feel comfortable with those incarnating with them.
or 3.) They still have lessons to learn/and/ or teach those remaining relatives.


This of course is IMHO, as nobody really knows for sure. If we did then there would be no mystery left to our existence and be a prettyt drab life, having no mystery.

Originally posted by Tayesin on page 1:
".... A soul will incarnate when it decides to ... In the end, there is no-one telling you that you must incarnate, or forcing you into the next life based on what you deserve after the last one. The Soul has all the power of choice and is not required by anyone to do and be anything. ...

Excuse me, but I have a very hard time to believe this. Please explain: who the heck would choose to incarnate as:
- a starving child in Africa?
- a child getting AIDS infected by his mother?
- a child pornography victim?
- even worse, as a pedophile?
- a real ugly person?
- a person with a severe physical or mental illness?
- a child of mentally disturbed parents, who's social life will be destroyed from the beginning?

"Lessons"? Yes BS-lessons! I agree SOME incarnate to learn - and to have fun ((edit: It is indeed fun to live on Earth if you have yourself incarnated into a rich, good looking, intelligent/socially evolved family. But billions obviously didn’t have that choice)). At least the majority of those - billions of - “lessons” were NOT voluntary chosen to "experience". At least the majority of souls on Earth were forced into their "container" somehow.

Insofar I agree with Sonya610: "Assuming we are here to evolve and reincarnate into "better" beings is judgement, pure and simple. ....It is all BS." (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

And I agree with ufoptics: "...So, why is there so much greed, distruction and mayhem in the world? You would think after being reincarnated several times we get it right." (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

[edit on 20-6-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole

Originally posted by Tayesin on page 1:
".... A soul will incarnate when it decides to ... In the end, there is no-one telling you that you must incarnate, or forcing you into the next life based on what you deserve after the last one. The Soul has all the power of choice and is not required by anyone to do and be anything. ...

Excuse me, but I have a very hard time to believe this. Please explain: who the heck would choose to incarnate as:
- a starving child in Africa?
- a child getting AIDS infected by his mother?
- a child pornography victim?
- even worse, as a pedophile?
- a real ugly person.
- a person with a severe a physical or mental illness
- a child of mentally disturbed parents, who's social life will be destroyed from the beginning.

I think all of these - billions of - “lessons” were NOT voluntary chosen "to experience" them. Hence the majority of souls on Earth must have been forced into their "container" somehow.

Insofar I agree with Sonya610: "Assuming we are here to evolve and reincarnate into "better" beings is judgement, pure and simple. ....It is all BS." (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

And I agree with ufoptics: "...So, why is there so much greed, distruction and mayhem in the world? You would think after being reincarnated several times we get it right." (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

[edit on 20-6-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

The problem with your outlook is you're understanding it from a physical existance, rather than a spiritual one...souls would choose all these situations, mostly just to learn what real pain is. Some people may keep reincarnating as rich, authoritarian, heads of state, but they would never understand enough pain to ever empathize with, or care for anybody else involved with the real human struggle. This is an important lesson, because without understanding this pain on a spiritual level(remember in that place there is no pain, and no struggle), experiencing it themselves, they will never learn what physical life really intails. I don't think any but the most strong parts of the collective conciousness incarnate into these situations, the particular soul in question would have to be ready for it, if they're not, I do not beleive they would ever be forced, they will just choose levels of lower degrees of pain.

One may very well enter a path of pain in order to awaken another with empathy.


Some come to show others something...some come to bring a darkness so future souls see the light more clearly...learning from and discerning from...the darkened soul.

Some come to bring catalysts to us.

But with someone like Hitler lets say....I do not think this soul would get a choice but instead have to come reap what he sown for himself...which would be a very ugly horrid life.

There may be a soul group that has chosen to keep incarnating into the lives of lets say the African children....waiting for our sorry arses to awaken to how we can change this situation...providing a opportunity for others to see our own greed and selfishness. Providing a path for empathy and teaching us it is time to run this world as a spiritual sphere, living a life for others.

Many things are possible if reincarnation is so. When you are living for a divine way, a will of one...then reincarnating into a painful experience just to awaken one more light is totally worth it.

In my personal opinion though...I do not believe souls always get to choose and that there is automatic rebooting for some. If this is so I really would not care to be rebooted....so there is a reasont o strive to 'do right'.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
The problem with your outlook is you're understanding it from a physical existance, rather than a spiritual one...souls would choose all these situations, mostly just to learn what real pain is. Some people may keep reincarnating as rich, authoritarian, heads of state, but they would never understand enough pain to ever empathize with, or care for anybody else involved with the real human struggle. This is an important lesson, because without understanding this pain on a spiritual level(remember in that place there is no pain, and no struggle), experiencing it themselves, they will never learn what physical life really intails. I don't think any but the most strong parts of the collective conciousness incarnate into these situations, the particular soul in question would have to be ready for it, if they're not, I do not beleive they would ever be forced, they will just choose levels of lower degrees of pain.

Thanks, but again, my point is: Most of those so called “lessons” are SO destructive most humans get literally swamped with problems, fears, disorientation … and in the end simply break down and totally lose themselves. No lessons are learned this way. Just look around. I have observed so many people totally lose control, totally break down, losing any spirituality in this ...ing world. Losing control and getting pushed over the edge is no lesson learned.

This is btw the “hidden hand” thread issue. He/she insinuated the (majority of) souls are here to “experience”, but at the same time his fine “family” are causing so many wars, greed, destruction, mayhem, turmoil, that actually no lessons can be learned (by the majority). And that’s also the exact reason why humanity doesn’t "evolve", as we see stated in so many threads.

So there's something seriously flawed with that "lesson" concept, at least here on Earth.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Excuse me, but I have a very hard time to believe this. Please explain: who the heck would choose to incarnate as:
- a starving child in Africa?
- a child getting AIDS infected by his mother?
- a child pornography victim?
- even worse, as a pedophile?
- a real ugly person?
- a person with a severe physical or mental illness?
- a child of mentally disturbed parents, who's social life will be destroyed from the beginning?

To help others learn lessons, such as compassion or to help them move forward in some way.

Also, the "choice" to reincarnate into a lifetime that experiences horrible things could probably be similar to how the choice is made to be depressed.

People will tell themselves that "Oh my life sucks, everything is terrible, blah blah blah, I am so depressed." They are feeding the depression with their own thoughts. It is a choice to be that way.

Originally posted by clint flint
Here's a question.

What do you think would happen to all our souls if planet earth was to suffer some sort of disaster that wiped out humanity?

No bodies to reincarnate into - what would happen?

As if billions of voices cried out at once, and were suddenly silenced, as it were?

Originally posted by watchtheashes
According to the truth of death, you have no conscious existence after you die.

Any apparition or reincarnation experience or whatever on those lines is nothing but a lie from the demons here on planet Earth. Some of them have physical bodies (IE: "alien" beings) while others are disembodied to walk the Earth as demons to tempt and mess with humanity, including "I saw the light" type experiences.

Isaiah 26:14 "They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish."

Isaiah 8:19 "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

There you have it. Most Churches (most are corrupt beyond normal Biblical teaching) teach that when we die we get to live in heaven and Paradise or go to Hell. When the reality is we won't be conscious of either one until Jesus Christ judges everyone who ever lived.

Isa 26:19 Your dead ones shall live, my dead body, they shall rise up. Awake and sing, dust dwellers; for the dew of lights is your dew; and the earth shall cast out departed spirits.

1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes. And he and two of the men with him went; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, I beg you, divine for me by necromancy, and bring up to me him whom I say to you.
1Sa 28:9 And the woman said to him, Behold, you know that which Saul has done, that he has cut off mediums, and the spirit-knowers, out of the land. And why are you laying a snare for my life, to kill me?
1Sa 28:10 And Saul swore to her by Jehovah, saying, As Jehovah lives, no evil shall happen to you because of this thing.
1Sa 28:11 And the woman said, Whom shall I bring up to you? And he said, Bring up Samuel to me.
1Sa 28:12 And the woman saw Samuel, and cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!
1Sa 28:13 And the king said to her, Do not be afraid. For what have you seen? And the woman said to Saul, I have seen a god coming up out of the earth.
1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his appearance? And she said, An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a robe. And Saul knew that he was Samuel. And he bowed his face to the earth, and prostrated himself.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel (He's Dead) said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up. And Saul said, I am grievously distressed. And the Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned from me and has not answered me any more, either by the hand of the prophets, or by dreams. And I called for you to make known to me what I should do.
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, And why do you ask me, since Jehovah has departed from you and is your foe?

I often think that its possible that I am the only one individual thought being and I get to inhabit everyone that has ever lived in parallel time to experience myself and what I am capable of or not ( The One ).

You reading this are in fact myself but due to your up bringing and experiences in life such as language, learning and exposure are a slightly different flavour of myself.

Ghost's are just my own latent memories floating around in the ether of my conscious that appear some times when something tragic has happened in a timeline I was on recently or close to.

Here is a quote from abnother poster who since this post has left this forum:

It's funny you mention they might trick me into believe they are a loved one. One of the reasons I am starting to feel that this is my purpose is an incident that happened a couple months ago. My grandfather's ghost has appeared to several members of my family at my grandmas house. Well, they thought it was him anyways. I had never seen him...until a few months ago. He appeared when I was there. Everyone else saw Grandpa, but I sure didn't. Nasty creature is what I saw. When it looked at me, I can only describe it as a shocked look on its face...I assume it could tell I could see it in its true form. Now for the 2nd strange part...it fled. I didn't do, or say anything. But it fled, and has never been seen again.

So dont assume stuff.

Belive noone.

Dont get into stuff based on some cocamamy stuff you heard about.

This is something i posted on another topic recently,,,

I believe that the 'spirit' / 'soul' resides in another dimension. Vibrating at higher energy, inextricably linked to our physical being.

I therefore believe that because our souls are always present in another dimension projecting physical reality from which we can have 'various' realities going on at the same time, reincarnation is just another reality on another dimension/time, just different facets of the same rough diamond, shining light out into different physical realities we call a life, forever polishing our souls/spirits.

reply to post by chillpill


Spirit exists outside time when unconnected to a body.

reply to post by nunya13


I googled this same question which is how I came across this site.
Out of all the replies here, I feel like yours sits best with me.. and it's something I have been trying to articulate for a while. I have a very strong faith in God, and my spirituality includes the belief of reincarnation. I preach about my spirituality a lot to people that I think it will help and one question I am always asked is usually along the lines of "so you are telling me my mother is in another persons body and I can't pray to her and she is not watching over me?" I usually reply with 'part of her is reincarnated, the other part is in heaven' - but it doesn't usually cut it. Can u think of a better way to articulate this?

About reincarnation:

If souls get reincarnated... where did they originate...... and if only some get reincarnated, where do all the new souls come from... and how do we determine which soul is 3 days old, which one is 600 years old and so forth?



[edit on 13/04/2009 by Psychdoc]

Originally posted by Psychdoc
About reincarnation:

If souls get reincarnated... where did they originate...... and if only some get reincarnated, where do all the new souls come from... and how do we determine which soul is 3 days old, which one is 600 years old and so forth?

My insight into the subject is that we all originate from the Divine Source, God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever name you give It. Souls reincarnate by choice into those they chose to learn whatever lesson is still necessary to continue their quest to return to the Source. New souls are those that are not chosen by those wishing to reincarnate. As to how to determine which is which, I personally find that it is in the eyes. Some people and/or infants have a deepness that you can perceive when looking into their eyes. Other ways to tell is the amount of maturity for the age of the child or adult. When someone seems "wise for their age", this is also usually and indication. Of course, there is no proof for this, it is just my perception and insight into the subject.

reply to post by chillpill


Hey there friend
Reading through your thread I found myself wondering if you had ever read Elsa Barker's 'letters from a dead man'? It is the writings of one who has passed over, dictated through the medium of automatic writing.

There are 3 ebooks in total, but the one I mentioned is the first one.
I read the first one with a skeptical mind, and was totally enthralled!
Have just started the second book which is called 'War letters from a living dead man' and the third is called the 'Barker last letters'.

Letters from a living dead man

Hope the link works (my first attempt at adding one to a reply)!

VA

I have questioned this very thing several times.. I have read a few books and was a member of several reincarnation groups. I have spoken to researchers and I've gotten the impression that it takes no more than five years to reincarnate based off children who recall past lives and were able to identify themselves.. However, I have come across people, one of whom claims to see the spirit of a man who died a very long time ago.. I didn't understand how that was possible. I've even read articles where people claim they've encountered my spirit and I've watched videos where paranormal experts claim to be talking to my spirit.. I couldn't dimiss the other persons claim but I knew the ones about me are fake.. However, the theory that our higher self can imprint a certain level of consciousness on the psychical plane that will remain.. That is honestly very intriguing and makes some sense.