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Jehovahs Witnesses Flip Flops

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posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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Jehovah's Witnesses Flip Flops
The WT Society claims to be Jehovah's organization and God's only channel of spiritual instruction for today.21
It stresses that the Bible is an "organizational book" and cannot be understood by individuals no matter how sincere they are. But how can we trust our eternal destiny to an organization that during its brief time in existence has accumulated such a woeful history of doctrinal contradictions and flip-flops? Consider the following examples of ever-changing Watchtower theology.
In 1975 the WTB&TS taught that the man who sows the seed in the parable of the mustard seed (Matthew 13) is Satan. Later that same year the WT Society taught that this sower was Jesus.22
21. The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 590.
22. Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress. . . (1975), p. 208; The Watchtower, October 1, 1975, p. 600.

The Watchtower Society's failure to correctly interpret the Bible is most clearly seen in their doctrinal flip-flops. First they teach position A, then they change to position B, claiming God has given them "new light." Later on, however, they revert back to their old teaching (position A) and in some cases change once again to position B. Here are some examples.

Resurrection of the Men of Sodom
1879 - They will be resurrected.
1952 - They will not be resurrected.
1965 - They will be resurrected.
1988 - They will not be resurrected.24
24. Zion's Watch Tower Reprints, July 1879, p. 7; The Watchtower, June 1, 1952, p. 338; August 1, 1965, p. 479; June 1, 1988, pp. 30-31.

'Higher Powers' of Romans 13:1
1916 - 'Higher powers' refers to governments.
1943 - 'Higher powers' refers to Jehovah God & Jesus Christ.
1964 - 'Higher powers' refers to governments.26

Separating 'sheep and goats' (Matt. 25:31-46)
1919 - will take place after the time of tribulation.
1923 - is taking place now, before the tribulation.
1995 - will take place after the tribulation.27
26. Watch Tower Reprints, September 1, 1916, p. 5952; The Truth Shall Make You Free, [1943 ed.], p. 312; The Watchtower, June 15, 1964, p. 20. The WT Society admitted this change in doctrine cost many Jehovah's Witnesses their lives (The Watchtower, November 15, 1950, p. 441).
27. The Watchtower, August 1, 1919, p. 238; Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993, pp. 163-164; The Watchtower, October 15, 1995, p. 19, 22-23.

Conclusion
In light of the preceding facts, do we dare trust the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society? It has falsely prophesied the end of the world at least 6 times and used these predictions to intimidate its followers. The Bible warns us that many false prophets will come claiming to speak for God (Matthew 7:15; 1 John 4:1). Thankfully, it also provides a practical test for identifying false prophets. In Deuteronomy 18:21-22 we are told that anyone who claims to speak as a prophet of God and predicts something that does not come true is a false prophet.

You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. (NIV)

According to the Bible, one false prophecy makes the speaker a false prophet. By this test, the Watchtower Society's failed prophecies concerning 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925 and 1975 prove beyond a doubt it is a false prophet.

This group has also repeatedly changed its doctrines and contradicted previously held beliefs, all while claiming that it alone has the truth. Is this consistent with God's perfection and holiness?

We do not intend to ridicule or belittle individual Jehovah's Witnesses; they are generally sincere, dedicated people. In one sense they are more like lost sheep than ravenous wolves, for they have been deceived by an organization with a history of false prophecies and false doctrines.

[edit on 6/19/2009 by texastig]




posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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seriously texas... how old are you? This seems like a childish obsession of yours. You just keep cutting and pasting and spewing out really tired accusations and half truths. Miriam and I have asked you some tough questions, and because you can't honestly answer them, your response is to keep throwing punches in the air.

You obviously don't like JW's... and that's OK!!!

Go ahead... have the last word, you won't quite until you do



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by holywar
seriously texas... how old are you? This seems like a childish obsession of yours. You just keep cutting and pasting and spewing out really tired accusations and half truths. Miriam and I have asked you some tough questions, and because you can't honestly answer them, your response is to keep throwing punches in the air.

You obviously don't like JW's... and that's OK!!!

Go ahead... have the last word, you won't quite until you do


I'm am over 39 years old. I've been a believer for over 20 years. All I did was reply to the "Debunking false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses. 1-14"
and you all start having a cow. There is nothing wrong with questioning the JW doctrine.
I just pulled out the JW's stuff and proved that they flip flop. I've responded to your questions and I have honestly tried to answer them.

The premier Greek Scholar of the 20th Century, Julius Mantey, says that the JW's are wrong about John 1:1.

Please don't accuse me of not liking JW's. I love people but not their false doctrines.
One of the the many problems the JW's have is that they think they are the only ones going to Heaven and that's not true. Do you believe that or do you not believe that?

Thanks,
TT



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by texastig
 






One of the the many problems the JW's have is that they think they are the only ones going to Heaven and that's not true.


Well, certain ones throughout history have been chosen, and you are correct some weren't JW's, all of the New Testament writers for example they all go to heaven and they weren't JW's, certain ones through the middle ages that got as close to the truth as was available to them at the time, some of them were chosen too. I think where you are getting mixed up is the 144,000 part, there are over 7 million JW's, very few have ever thought they were going to heaven. Lot's of non JW's are going to heaven that lived before the 20th century. Based on my research most of the 144,000 in fact weren't Jehovah's Witnesses. But they did serve God with spirit and truth to the best of there ability.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by texastig
 


Why anyone would stay in it after being lied to that many times with date setting is incredible.



The premier Greek Scholar of the 20th Century, Julius Mantey, says that the JW's are wrong about John 1:1.




Learning a lot about this JW cult by reading these false doctrines these guys are slinging and then listening to Walter shoot them down
I'm glad John Ankerberg posted them.



I wonder what happens at the JW convention when more than 144,000 people show up?



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 

But then what happened to:

" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"?

According to Jesus, that is all you need to inherit eternal life.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


"Love the Lord" requires that you know who the Lord is. The god of Watchtower society is not the God Jesus was referring to. Cults preach a false Gospel about a false god. The god they created in their own image. That's why they are so dangerous.

[edit on 6/20/2009 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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hello there

I personally do not hold the beliefs of The J.Ws however I feel that people should be careful when dubunking the watchtowers changes.

The reason is thus.

This only serves to alienate the JW members against you and it gives non Christians the wrong impression of what a christian should be.

Doctrine should be discussed by use of the Bible only this way everyone learns. Without doubt the J.Ws know where scripture is and are very good at recalling it. Myself, i have learnt a lot by reading the scripture that they quote and i thank the Lord for that. I just see it very differently to them.



david



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by texastig
I just pulled out the JW's stuff and proved that they flip flop.


anyone honestly looking for truth will at times adjust the way they see things.

if you were someone seeking truth as opposed to pushing your dogmatic viewpoint, then you would realize that this is not flip flopping. its making sure they get it right


[edit on 24-6-2009 by miriam0566]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Learning a lot about this JW cult by reading these false doctrines these guys are slinging and then listening to Walter shoot them down


again with walter? the guy doesnt even know how to read.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by texastig
I just pulled out the JW's stuff and proved that they flip flop.


anyone honestly looking for truth will at times adjust the way they see things.

if you were someone seeking truth as opposed to pushing your dogmatic viewpoint, then you would realize that this is not flip flopping. its making sure they get it right




If someone has to adjust the way they see things, it appears there was a probelm from the get-go. With Jesus we don't adjust to anything, we know things for a fact because he is the Messiah/Christ, that teaches us through the Holy Spirit, these very simplistic things.

You can study the Bible until the cows come home and still not be a part of the kingdom of God. You must open your heart and mind, to the fact, that God's kingdom is right now and by doing so, you will start to hear his words anew.

When he spoke the words "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock" is a personal invite for you alone, to put away your preconceived notions of what you think you know and allow him to take up residence within you. Because it really is all about perception, when dealing with things of a spiritual nature and how we apply our senses; seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling.

The Messiah is always right, for he is the truth, so there is no need for him to ever have to flip flop on any issue. He is the way, the truth and the life. He is the light of the world. He is the bread that came from heaven. He's the good shepard and he's the gate.

And he is the resurrection. God has made it possible, for the Son of Man to resurrect himself inside of you, so that you know for certain, that with him ALL THINGS are possible - and that includes you having a spiritual life, with him here and now, as well as, after your fleshly body dies and decays, your spirit will go on. And the truth will set you free. God Bless.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
If someone has to adjust the way they see things, it appears there was a probelm from the get-go. With Jesus we don't adjust to anything, we know things for a fact because he is the Messiah/Christ, that teaches us through the Holy Spirit, these very simplistic things.


jesus was the son of god. of course he didnt need to adjust anything.

but his apostles did. many times through-out the scriptures they had to reason from the scriptures to discern what direction they had to take. sometimes, the holy spirit would make it obvious, but sometimes it wouldnt

christians cannot expect the holy spirit to just "pop" things into their heads. the bible was written to be read and referenced.


When he spoke the words "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock" is a personal invite for you alone, to put away your preconceived notions of what you think you know and allow him to take up residence within you. Because it really is all about perception, when dealing with things of a spiritual nature and how we apply our senses; seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling.


exactly, use your senses to determine the truth. the truth is more than a "feeling"


after your fleshly body dies and decays, your spirit will go on. And the truth will set you free.


did the holy spirit share that with you? because it disagrees with god's word.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
If someone has to adjust the way they see things, it appears there was a probelm from the get-go. With Jesus we don't adjust to anything, we know things for a fact because he is the Messiah/Christ, that teaches us through the Holy Spirit, these very simplistic things.


jesus was the son of god. of course he didnt need to adjust anything.

but his apostles did. many times through-out the scriptures they had to reason from the scriptures to discern what direction they had to take. sometimes, the holy spirit would make it obvious, but sometimes it wouldnt

christians cannot expect the holy spirit to just "pop" things into their heads. the bible was written to be read and referenced.


When he spoke the words "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock" is a personal invite for you alone, to put away your preconceived notions of what you think you know and allow him to take up residence within you. Because it really is all about perception, when dealing with things of a spiritual nature and how we apply our senses; seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling.


exactly, use your senses to determine the truth. the truth is more than a "feeling"


after your fleshly body dies and decays, your spirit will go on. And the truth will set you free.


did the holy spirit share that with you? because it disagrees with god's word.


First off - Jesus IS the Son of God - not was the Son of God. By speaking of him in past tense you're basically saying he was the Messiah at some point and often times when people do this it's a dead give away, that they really don't have a clear picture of what the exact functions of the Messiah are.

The disciples who became the apostles only began discerning after Jesus blew on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

'christians cannot expect the holy spirit to just "pop" things into their heads.'...........

The truth is stranger than fiction. It's actually a bit more complex than something just popping into your head but that's really a cute way of looking at it, when I think about it. Do you remember, right before Jesus was arrested and he prayed for himself, then his disciples and then for everyone? Right at the end of his prayer for Everyone he said this:

"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." Joh17:25-26

Even though he knew he was returning back to God, his function as teacher remains through the Holy Spirit. It's more like the Holy Spirit is this fantastic mechanism (for lack of a better word) that enables the Messiah to work in us and bring us into all truths. The Messiah from God is the Son of God. The Messiah that resurrects in us is known as the Son of Man.

King David sums it up quite nicely in Psalm 110:1 "The Lord said to my Lord....."

And in Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Your flesh will return to dust but your spirit will return to God and the place of the root of Jesse's rest is glorious and we will be aware to enjoy that glory.









[edit on 25-6-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 

Even though he knew he was returning back to God, his function as teacher remains through the Holy Spirit. It's more like the Holy Spirit is this fantastic mechanism (for lack of a better word) that enables the Messiah to work in us and bring us into all truths. The Messiah from God is the Son of God. The Messiah that resurrects in us is known as the Son of Man.
You quote John 17:26 where Jesus says, "And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it:. . ." The Greek word for "will declare" is gnwrisw. It only occures this once in the New Testament. It shows up twice in the Greek Old Testament:
Daniel 5:17 But Daniel replied to the king, “Keep your gifts, and give your rewards to someone else! However, I will read the writing for the king and make known its interpretation."
1 Samuel 10:8 You will go down to Gilgal before me. I am going to join you there to offer burnt offerings and to make peace offerings. You should wait for seven days, until I arrive and tell you what to do.”

It seems like Jesus is saying that he is still in the process of revealing God. I do not see any reason to think that he meant that anything any different was going to happen, than what he had been doing.


[edit on 25-6-2009 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


And what name did Jesus love to declare? Father. He even tells us not to call our earthly Dad's by this name because there is really only one true Father.

You can choose to look at it anyway you want, but in all three cases the underlying tone is one of intamacy with God. Daniel can only make things known because of his relationship to God and the same with Samuel. Samuel is the one who anointed Saul and David. If you back up a few verses to 1Sam10:6 - "The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power, and you will prophecy with them; and be changed into a different person."

Samuel, Daniel and Jesus all were anointed and all had the gift of prophecy. We learn in Revelations that Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.

Jesus came to reveal God and anointments still take place. God does nothing without reason. Prophecy is not just limited to a dreaded future event. People can actually stray off the narrow path and need reminded of truths. His love is so great, that he sent His Son to show you that things will now be done on earth as they are in heaven.

You know what? I know this sounds like a strange teaching, at this moment but you have to remember, that Jesus came to earth during a period of time, that God had to put words in his mouth, in a certain way, so that the messages of truth could even get out. When the messages started to become clear they killed him. But it's done. Jesus told us that one day he would be able to speak plain and clear about the Father.......... that day is now.



[edit on 25-6-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 

Samuel, Daniel and Jesus all were anointed and all had the gift of prophecy. We learn in Revelations that Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.
It is somewhat interesting that the only place in the New Testament where this exact spelling of this "to show" word is in the Septuagint where Samuel is talking to Saul about him showing him something. Saul ran across these prophets and began prophesying among them. Some of the people who witnessed it said, "But who is their father?"
Jesus may have been inspired to use this particular phraseology to have this verse come to mind in the hearers of his prayer, as a comparison to what he had been doing. Jesus was going through the process of providing his disciples with the answer. God is their father.


[edit on 25-6-2009 by jmdewey60]




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