Originally posted by JesusBorba
The empaty comment in the other post was related to the guy saying that killing was a #ing perk of that job.

I'm talking about the big picture here and you come with experience acquired by this bs war on terror? you give me a brake, because as long as you don't understand that you are really clueless, and nobody talked about any natural disaster here, unless you consider a bomb to be an act of god, some people do.

Well I apologize then for reading into your comment.

One thing to remember, the war on terror was not create by the military and we never wanted it, also we seem to focus on that only when the military does so much more in a completely positive manor all over the world. My first 12 years in the service I did mainly humanitarian missions then Desert Storm for a short while followed by another 10 years of humanitarian mission until the Iraq war and though I fought in it I did many more further humanitarian mission than combat missions.

I understand where you are coming from in that the big picture of the war over there has been very bad for both sides and we can blame our politicians and the Iraqi people mainly for that. Without our politicians we never would have gone there in the firest place and if the Iraqi people embraced freedom after Saddam fell and not kill each other in sectarian fighting we would not still be there.

In the end it was all a mess no matter how well the military performed...

I honestly cant understand why someone born on this planet would join a military (specially the US military) and spend their life there, have a career there etc. For what? So you can go off killing farmers and civilians somewhere (because lets face it, the last time you actually had some resistance you lost, remember Vietnam?) so the American empire can grow bigger?

There is no threat to the United States and everybody knows it, but you guys like to point your finger at some farm boys overseas and call them terrorists so you can go over there with airplanes and tanks and wipe them out so your can motivate your yearly "defense" budget. It makes me sick. And your media is spinning the threat propaganda like there is no tomorrow. It seems to work. Dont forget to be afraid today.

Sigh.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by JesusBorba

Originally posted by shiman
upon reading further, this thread turned into a military-bashing area. not even close to what the op was saying.

I clearly stated that the OP is at the "root of the problem", the recruiters are necessary to keep the war machine going, how can you debate this issue without adressing the consequences of his job.

You are pinning this on the OP as if he is the person causing the problem. he is merely somebody doing their job, like anybody else in his position. there may be those corrupt people, but saying he is the root of the problem himself is a little... ignorant. Address the issue of his job and his employer, instead of bashing on him. He is just trying to make a living, not control the world, like his employer.

Originally posted by Copernicus

I honestly cant understand why someone born on this planet would join a military (specially the US military) and spend their life there, have a career there etc. For what? So you can go off killing farmers and civilians somewhere (because lets face it, the last time you actually had some resistance you lost, remember Vietnam?) so the American empire can grow bigger?

There is no threat to the United States and everybody knows it, but you guys like to point your finger at some farm boys overseas and call them terrorists so you can go over there with airplanes and tanks and wipe them out so your can motivate your yearly "defense" budget. It makes me sick. And your media is spinning the threat propaganda like there is no tomorrow. It seems to work. Dont forget to be afraid today.

Sigh.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Copernicus]

Sigh................

And where the hell are you from Mr. Knowitall. Yours post is just as uneducated, uninformed, and completely devoid of facts, of anything I've seen. I'm not surprised. This world is full of all knowing ignorance. Much of it here on ATS.

Believe me when I say you, and your kind, are the reason I'd like to see a complete pull-back of all US ground forces to the continental 48 and let you whiners and America haters deal with the evil in this world by yourselves. It's what folks like you deserve. A real dose of reality.

Besides, we may need our our ground forces here in the US for protection from "all enemies foreign and domestic, so help me God".

I served in the US Army from 1968-1970 so I may have a completely different perspective, which is why I consider you to be clueless to the n'th degree. I've been shot at by "farmers and civilians" and some are not as innocent as you make them out to be. Farmers/civilians by day, warriors by night.

Sounds like a taste of military service is exactly what you need after spouting your military ignorance on the boards. In the future why don't you keep your crap to yourself because we who have "walked the walk" know the truth and are quite tired of hearing this BULL.

Your post is Pure Poppycock.

(Sorry Mods)

Seriously I dont believe the OP deserved half the treatment he recieved here even though it was in a somewhat civil manner. Without recruiters we would have even less soldiers in our standing army and nowadays we need as many as we can get because we are on the verge of shtf especially with Pakistan and North Korea.

Hey Original Poster, will you tell us when you start to hear the draft rumors? Is Obama going to finally do something to clean up this latest pathetic generation of total idiots?

Originally posted by THX-1138
Hey Original Poster, will you tell us when you start to hear the draft rumors? Is Obama going to finally do something to clean up this latest pathetic generation of total idiots?

If it wasn't for the fact I'd have to serve with them, watching all the hippies that vote for Obama get drafted would be a hoot.

Originally posted by shiman
You are pinning this on the OP as if he is the person causing the problem. he is merely somebody doing their job, like anybody else in his position. there may be those corrupt people, but saying he is the root of the problem himself is a little... ignorant. Address the issue of his job and his employer, instead of bashing on him. He is just trying to make a living, not control the world, like his employer.

This is called Yuppie Nuremberg Defense, he's just doing his job, following orders and paying the mortgage right?

I never bashed him, i simply described the consequences of his job, never made any personal attacks, and if you cannot see that he is literally at the root of the problem you are the ignorant one.
He's the first one to talk to the future soldiers, the first one to convince them the military is the right way to go, and as so many have stated here the recruiter do lie to get his quota, even though the OP stated that he doesn't (and i have no reason to believe he's lying), since no recruiter will tell the teens the grim truth about his job in the war, i'm guessing here they all "sugar coat" the proposition to get them to join.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by JesusBorba]

deleted double post sorry

[edit on 29-6-2009 by JesusBorba]

All I will say is that you (the OP) has guts, to come on ATS and try and uphold your position.

Either you are very proud of your job and have good morals or you love your job and are trying to sway opinion.

It's like any other job in my eyes, you have people who believe in doing the right thing and people who want to benefit themselves.

I do have to say I think you are legit.

Originally posted by Oldnslo
I served in the US Army from 1968-1970 so I may have a completely different perspective, which is why I consider you to be clueless to the n'th degree. I've been shot at by "farmers and civilians" and some are not as innocent as you make them out to be. Farmers/civilians by day, warriors by night.

You mean those farmers and civilians whose country you invaded and then bombed, napalmed, orange gased, and finally left after 3 to 4 million people had died? yeah how dare they, and they only shot you at night?

Originally posted by JesusBorba

Originally posted by shiman
You are pinning this on the OP as if he is the person causing the problem. he is merely somebody doing their job, like anybody else in his position. there may be those corrupt people, but saying he is the root of the problem himself is a little... ignorant. Address the issue of his job and his employer, instead of bashing on him. He is just trying to make a living, not control the world, like his employer.

This is called Yuppie Nuremberg Defense, he's just doing his job, following orders and paying the mortgage right?

I never bashed him, i simply described the consequences of his job, never made any personal attacks, and if you cannot see that he is literally at the root of the problem you are the ignorant one.
He's the first one to talk to the future soldiers, the first one to convince them the military is the right way to go, and as so many have stated here the recruiter do lie to get his quota, even though the OP stated that he doesn't (and i have no reason to believe he's lying), since no recruiter will tell the teens the grim truth about his job in the war, i'm guessing here they all "sugar coat" the proposition to get them to join.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by JesusBorba]

You didnt bash him, im sorry if i implied that. Others did though, and it was pointed at them.

So as it turns out, there are more than one types of military, and each of them has their own secret going-ons. Sorry, op, but over a certain intelligence level and you cannot get into the military as a private, or, if you are even smarter, you cannot get into the regular military at all, without a college degree or something. The op is in the navy, and he obviously isnt told alot. It isnt his fault that he doesnt know what is going on, because the military likes to keep things secret. Most recruiters, if they know what the military really is doing, they would quit.

op is just posting what he knows, and most of what he knows is what he is allowed to know.

Recruiters dont have to do anything to get teens to join, video game companies like Electronic Arts and such already have that covered. Demoralizing killing through high-definition graphics and expertly coded game engines make killing look like its not real.

Originally posted by blind.face
What the hell else is war but grim? The military is trained for just that.. if you don't know that.. well (..fill in the blank..) is the ignorant one.

That is coming from someone that served but is against every military action that has been taken by this country since the Civil War.

What the hell else does a military train to do? Right or wrong?

Right, i agree with you that most people know what the military is all about, what war is all about is another issue, certanly not about bringing freedom or democracy to another country.
My point is better illustrated with that catch frase used by the military, "Join the Navy, See the World". The teen mind is a tricky thing, it's like selling toys to children, they use marketing techniques to make the military sound more appealing.

I again reiterate the need for you guys to see the movie "The Wave (1982)" or the german remake "Die Welle (2008)", the remake is much better imho, it's based on a true experiment by Prof.Ron Jones that took place in Cubberley High School history class in Palo Alto, California.
It really shows how malleable the teen mind is, and what can be accomplished just by giving them a group that they can belong too, like the military.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by JesusBorba]