A Warning To All ATS Members

reply to post by PullThePin


Ah... but the economy DID crash.. and that was very much predicted.

How do you think the collapse of the American economy will affect smaller nations like New Zealand??? My first post..... hi everyone!

reply to post by RawKiwi


Depends on the "type" of economy.

Service Economies are the first to collapse in the wake of a severe economic recession/depression.

Iceland was a service economy.

Ireland was a service economy.

Luxembourg was a service economy.

You get the idea, these economies have tanked. Some have collapsed (Ireland all but collapsed anyways)

The difference between these and NZ is that NZ is not a Service per se.

It's not developing either, like most of Eastern Europe, Poland, Romania, Lithuania etc.. hit very hard.

NZ has manufacturing, which got hit, tourism, which got hit, but agriculture and commodity price increases have stabilized the country.

Not to mention NZ is not as leveraged in debt as many Euro countries, or the US. Still, just like everyone else, deflation and high unemployment. Overall I would say it's a very safe place to be at the moment.

This isn't exactly news. The economy has been crashing for years. It accelerated within the past year, and it wouldn't be surprising if it took another, steeper dive before it turned around.

I wouldn't sweat it, though. There's really not a whole lot you can do about it, other than to try to protect any savings you might have. No clue what would be safe, though...

Just stock up on food and water, meds if you need them, just in case things turn really bad but past history suggests that we'll all be able to eat, even if we enter another Great Depression.

Personally, this whole episode looks like an "adjustment" or "correction" for the years of wildly irresponsible spending and credit we've been through. Much of the "profits" shown during those years were what I call 'J-Dollars' (9maginary money). It looked good on paper, but it was without substance, without any backing. It was all castles in the air, pipe dreams, and now it's time to wake up and face reality. Wild growth beyond what is sustainable is followed by a hard crash.

We haven't learned much from history. Now we're repeating it.

The key word in "economy" is CON. If you say it a bit slower and slurred it sounds like "He-Con-Me".

Regardless of how you say/spell it, come this November every person thinking that this game of smoke and mirrors will turn around will be saying "He Con Me, That bastard.. He Con Me again..".

You silly fools.. How can anyone even look at the stock market when there is a working group called "The Plunge Protection Team", that are spending billions on propping up bad stock. Once they run out of money the house of cards comes tumbling down. "HE CON ME.... AGAIN.. I was soooo smart this time though.."

This is my analogy for TARP's "Plunge Protection Team"

You run a restaurant, its been doing steady business for 8 years. This summer your city is hosting a big expo, tons of tourists are expected to come. Being a restaurant owner you're much too busy to stay up to date with the news. You have no idea about the expo but you are very glad about the recent uptick in customers.

You realize that you need to hire a new waiter as well as build an addition onto your restaurant to cater to the new patrons.

The expo is over. The tourists leave. You are one unhappy restaurant owner.. "Where did everyone go"? You're going to have to shut the restaurant down, you over-extended yourself and cant pay your debts..

A nicely dressed gentleman walks into your restaurant. He sees your crying into your hands.. "I see you're closing" he says... He says hes with the government and that he is here to fix all your problems.

His plan is to serve the meals that those customers from the expo would've had, anyway.. Just go right ahead and serve empty tables from breakfast through supper.

Pretty soon he assures you, the fake business will equal real business.

------------------------------------

That's pretty much the stage of the game were at right now. Myself, when I look into an empty restaurant and see every table plated with food, I'm smart enough to realize that "Everyone can't be going to the bathroom at the same time".

HE CON ME

[edit on 19-6-2009 by dj410]

Good grief...

I enjoy my money allot, But I don't base my life around it...

WE have food, we have rail, we have roads...

God forbid we have to eat less skip a years vacation work harder, be inventive...

You know what was here when we got to this Country? NOTHING... we have an infrastructure, Bankruptcy wont take it away, most of us have arms and legs and brains with which to use them

so we might be poor and struggle... so what, that's how a person get's rich, high time we remembered how to make money again... rather than waste it



Put your damn guns away and stop being idiots... get working on something, remember how small businesses are made..

stop being fools and start doing something other than spreading panic...

reply to post by Rockpuck


It's not mine. (obviously, lol)

It was given by a group that forecasts GDP that historically has a 95% clip of being correct within 1% variance.


I was given this information at a conference I attended for CFP's that was put on by my fathers employer. These people were also involved in lobbying and they predicted the Obama tax plan 6 months in advance (January of this year.. so I totally believe them yes.)


Lets add it to the list of "green shoots" hahahaha



[edit on 19-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Well, since I don't know the name of these people, I will choose to ignore them

I worked for a big company, F500, not on any index, it was Mutually Owned, but it had amazing profits. Allllll the way up till .... 2008.

We sat in front of the CEO, and he assured us, oh the profits where big, the money was plenty, the plans were ideal.

Mmm.... invested to much in real estate, turns out the money wasn't so plenty.

So I went to work for Citi .. well those guys have to be able to get it right, hell every economic pun is from Citi, Jp, or Goldman.

Watching 50k loose their jobs was.. insightful.

All in all ..

I think I have been hardened to despise anyone who proclaims themselves an economist while being associated with any major financial institution, any institution that connects them selves to said institutions, or any proclaimed economist who does not display detailed research or reasoning behind said remarks. Because, call me cold and distant to these bastards, most are paid to say what they say. While CEO's and investment funds tell you everything is peachy they are stuffing their suits with cash with one foot out the door hailing their drivers with tickets to the Caribbean in hand.

Maybe the economy will turn around. Maybe we will see a new era of prosperity with Obama's green jobs. Maybe unemployment really is easing. God knows we all want recovery, we have already suffered the worst recession in known memory.

But I just have that nagging feeling... that rational, calculated logical voice in my head that's whispering ".....they're liiiieeeeiinnnnggg"

July 18th, 2008

Bush says economy is fine as inflation reaches historic levels

"I think the system basically is sound, I truly do," Bush said. "And I understand there’s a lot of nervousness. . . . But the economy is growing, productivity is high, trade is up, people are working. It’s not as good as we’d like, but . . . to the extent that we find weakness, we’ll move." Bush joked that he had now heard of $4.00 per gallon gas, after he notoriously denied any knowledge of those forecasts in a press briefing in March.

October 8th, 2008

Bush says "Economy will be Just Fine"

"I believe that in the long run, this economy is going to be just fine," Bush said. In the short term, he said the Treasury Department must go about enacting its plan to buy up troubled assets from financial firms so that credit will start flowing again to consumers.

September 19th, 2008

Bush says "Economy is Fine!"



See... and that was to easy.

All the way till the crash "It's all good you ignorant fools the economy is fine!" Have not heard of the Bush's suffering any severe economic down turn due to being so heavily invested..... oh wait.... those lines where just for us, were they not?

Greenbicmac: Don't listen to shills. That includes anyone with any form of "official" title, name, association, institution, fund, what ever. Listen to the Independents.. because the one thing they will never take from us is this....... We were right all along!

Kind of makes sense that the American economy has to collapse. If they are intending to bring about a One World Govt and a One World monetary system, the almighty U.S dollar must first be done away with.

You can bank on it happening.

WARNING! I haven't read all the comments, but this is the real issue....the federal reserve gaining more control over the financial system through Obama's so-called reforms. THIS IS BIG TROUBLE, AND IF NOT STOPPED WILL BE THE DEMISE OF THE USA. Once again, this is part of their plans...plans that have been in the works for decades now. Folks, distribute this video to everyone you know (and wished you knew). It is vital that this does not happen.

www.youtube.com...

If there was true concern by the Government to get thru this thing, it would about getting back to the basics.
The food stores are at very low levels, this would be time to make sure food water would be in abundance, so we could weather the storm.
Nothing is being done to address this problem. I thought it was a joke when they said in Germany you need a wheel barrow of money to buy a loaf of bread before WWII, this was no joke. At least with abundance of cheap food we could make it thru when the system breaks down.
This is the basics, food,water. you wear your old clothes, drive you old car, work help fix things for the change. People will kill for food, water, so what if I wear old clothes, drive old car.
Food and water supply is the main thing the Government should be addressing right now, let the people know things may get bad for a time but you and your childern will have substanace, so everyone be calm everything is under control.
What is going to happen once the system break down completly it will be everyone trying to save self and loved ones. Once things do get bad it will become a killing field, and you will see the worst of human nature come out, self preservation screw the other guy I got to live.
I don't know if this is master plan, but the U.S. will never be the same, all the technology will still be there just not as many people.
As for the Zeiltergist Movement notice you don't see to many people.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

It was given by a group that forecasts GDP that historically has a 95% clip of being correct within 1% variance.


I was given this information at a conference I attended for CFP's that was put on by my fathers employer. These people were also involved in lobbying and they predicted the Obama tax plan 6 months in advance (January of this year.. so I totally believe them yes.)


Lets add it to the list of "green shoots" hahahaha



[edit on 19-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

Salesmen are salesmen....Mad Money, Mad Men, Boiler Room, Greenspan, Paulson, Summers, Geithner, Bush, Clinton, Bush Obama...etc...

Been there and done that...

Some of us are sick and tired of being "sold", and we see right through it..

Not gonna buy it...wouldn't be prudent at this juncture...

We all must learn our own lessons, good luck to you!


[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

reply to post by mopusvindictus



Can I say I agree with your post???

It's not what you "make",it's what you "save" and honestly,as someone who's owned more than one successful small biz,it IS the way to insure that you and yours have what you need!!!

I am big on education but it comes in all forms and not all of them revolve around years of a pricey private school: learn a trade,a skill,something you enjoy and really become GOOD at it!!!

You'd be amazed at how "non-hard" (noticed I didn't say "easy",LOL!) it is to begin to create a biz simply based on the fact that you're passionate and skilled at "something..."

Too many are locked in boxes: I hear everyday,"I can't find a job IN MY FIELD..."
So...go to another damn FIELD and try something else!!!

It IS probably going to get MUCH harder for many but honestly,many have been complacent and spoiled,sorry.

I see people everyday (I live very rural) working with their hands,laboring at skilled trades,and honestly they are doing just fine and will CONTINUE to do so!

ALWAYS work and success if you can do something with your heart,hands,and head!!!

reply to post by irishchic


LOTS of wisdom in your post

Do not let others determine your fate....

Education (in all of it's manifestations) combined with determination and passion, will see you through!

Originally posted by Angelsoftheapocalypse
if the economy collapses and we are no longer able to get onto ATS...(due to internet collapse, or nwo control of resources, news, ect) maybe we should have a sign or something that would show we are friendly, and are of the same ideas.. or maybe a network to keep the word coming out. like the resistance to ignorance. something to where we can keep getting the truth out...

I like this idea! How about the ATS logo? Seems as good a sign as any to me.

Being a little sheltered here in rural Ireland I have to say is it really as bad as it seems from this thread? I have always objected to the stock markets as unreal. It never seemed fair to me that a company could be brought down and it's employees thrown out of work, by people buying and selling shares - trading bits of paper. Same goes for money - it is only paper.

The vegetables in your plot, the roof over your head, and the fruits of your labours are the only true currency. The barter system was good.

Originally posted by contemplator
Economy in collapse? Down the street from me there is a doggie day spa with Ferraris parked out front

Egggggsactly!!!


It's a geographic thing right now... many areas are doing better than ever, some of them urban, some of them rural.


Everything is going to be fine.... bumpy.... but fine...

As I've been saying since last fall, I think the reality of Great Depression Number Two will hit America in 2010 and last for several years.

Here's just one of the main problems...

For years now, corporate America have been bloated at the top and middle of corporations with highly paid "managers" who a) do not think of, contribute, or implement enough cost-savings or efficiency measures to pay for their own salaries and b) do not produce or generate enough actual, marketable product themselves to pay for their own salaries.

Companies are very top heavy with these so-called "managers" and "executives" whose salaries, as Ross Perot might say, make "a big sucking sound" on the profitability of companies.

To compound the fact that the ranks of these overpaid actually do more harm than good, they make bad decisions and misdirect companies into overall poor performances.

Yet, these are the very people companies reward lavishly and seem desperate to keep on the gravy train.

Yes, corporations have been and continue to waste millions of dollars on the Peter Principle... if the person talks the talk well, promote him and pay him handsomely, regardless of the fact that he does not save the company enough or produce enough to pay for himself. This way, companies can have legions of "smart" individuals who can speak in the vernacular, use buzzwords, and smooth over their performance reviews.

Great to have those smartly spoken people sitting in offices all over America, but not so great the fact that they are sucking their companies and the country down. Look at GM in the years leading to their bankruptcy. Full to the gills with very highly paid "managers" and "executives" who were not worth having around.

Are there "executives" in the company you work for who are very highly paid and you wonder... does that person really contribute enough to our company to pay for himself? What does that person do all day? When you have a conference room full of highly paid "executives", how much is that meeting costing the company per hour to have all those people sitting around chatting? What tangible results come out of the meeting that will actually profit the company?

Leeches in every corporation in America. Time to clean house at the top third of corporate America instead of the working class.

Just my 2 cents worth on what's wrong with corporate America.

I live in NY, just about 30 minutes from Manhattan. I, nor anyone I know has seen any evidence of any economic trouble, at all.

This is strange because weren't we already having an economic crash?

Last summer we knew a couple of people who lost their jobs, one guy worked for DHL and the other for Bear Sterns. But they both quickly and seamlessly found other work.

Everyone we know has money, are still buying things and no one has lost their homes. Where was this crash? And now there's going to be another invisible economic crash?

Here you go, from Wikipedia...

"The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence."

While formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1968 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of Hierarchiology", "inadvertently founded" by Peter, the principle has real validity[citation needed].

It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further promotions. Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".