A Warning To All ATS Members, page 4
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 91 times


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 08:34 PM by Dukesy
reply to post by posterboy


Poster boy you are right about "W". Most people who voted for him would agree with you - not rocket science. But - two wrongs do not make a right. Talk about more massive useless spending at our expense. And not to mention the brain storm of turning over more power to the very same people that have us so much in debt that we can't pay the interest anymore - I mean what the H-E-double hockey sticks is he thinking. And of course everything is an emergency so it can be jammed down our throats with no protesting. Side thought - I guess we really don't need that stooge Geithner any more either.

I would suggest getting off of the "W" hate band wagon and start looking at the present facts. You want to talk about spreading the wealth? - you haven't seen anything yet if Obamas present decisions are any indicator. You can bet his administration is looking at Social Security also. They won't be able to keep thier hands off of it. They will dig into it for more "spreading the wealth". It would give them instant gatification for thier government programs.

"W" is the least of our worries now. Someday he may get his due, but right now there is a lot that needs to be attended to for survival. As far as Obama and his adminstration - it is a mess making a bigger mess. God help our helpless a#%es and I pray we survive his term.


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 09:11 PM by muzzleflash
reply to post by Tentickles


i do not even believe in any of this "paper economy" bs anymore lol

inflation deflation its all mumbo jumbo

the "real" economy is always growing, because more products are created and enter the market, and old products are resold in secondary markets like garage sales, ebay, or craigslist

the economy can only "shrink" if products are destroyed

bonds are simply pieces of paper that you trade to someone for more pieces of paper (or electronic bits)

anyone who "bought" these "bonds" just got ripped off big time

this is all going to the chipped/electronic money anyhow, global "credit" systems etc etc

its all by design...so i am not really going to lose any sleep over it at all

[edit on 18-6-2009 by muzzleflash]


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 09:29 PM by proximo
Originally posted by posterboy
Well, well, the economy won't tank. In fact, it is going to recover.

The "W' administration had 8 years to go from a budget surplus during the Clinton years to a devastating deficit under "W". The "W" crew did everything in their power (and that was a lot) to make as much money as they possibly could (that was a lot, too.).

It makes me sick to read all this anti-Obama stuff on here. All those critics, please post everything you would have done starting 01/09 to get the US out of the @#$-hole the "W" crew got us in.


You are correct nothing Obama could have done could stop the recession, but there is nothing anyone could have done that would. The debt load must be reduced by at least 50% before we have any chance of recovery and that will take years, there is no instant fix. If you look up the amount of debt as a % of gdp in our system it is the highest it has ever been, and guess when it was next highest right before the great depression.

Obama and his crew of financial 'gurus' have found a way to make the problem much worse by spending - (wasting is more accurate) far more money in a bogus effort to 'stimulate' the economy. They are attempting to get people to spend and borrow more, when the entire problem is people have spent and borrowed way too much. Any idiot can see this cannot possibly work for any amount time, but it is easier politically to throw more money into the system and buy some time than it is to be truthful with the American people and let them know we are going into a depression.

Obama in 6 months has already increased spending so much we are going to be running a deficit of 2 trillion dollars. The Bush administration's spending was outrageous yes, but you dare call out Bush with his spending when your hero is running 4 times the deficit of Bush's largest in his first year?

Here is what I would have done, although I fully admit this would not prevent a recession/depression only make it less painful. I would have cut defense spending to the bone, like 70%, all we really need is nukes and we are safe. I absolutely would not bail out anyone, shifting the losses onto the American citizens who are not responsible for their failures is criminal in my opinion. I would have done everything in my power to get the prescription drug entitlement removed. We cannot afford it, and in that bill we are paying as much as 10 times the going rate for drugs sold elsewhere because the lobbyists did such a good job writing the bill for the drug companies. I would make the FBI's chief job uncovering financial fraud, not mythical terrorist chasing. There is tons of fraud in the derivatives and other financial instruments that were created and we will not have a healthy economy until it is all flushed out in the open for everyone to see. I would also put limits on the amounts you can win from malpractice lawsuits and civil lawsuits in general, ban drug advertising, and encourage the use of generic drugs. There is no good reason we have to pay by far the highest prices for drugs of any nation in the world other than our government allowing it to happen.

Look the bottom line is the federal government cannot fix the economy, they can only hold it back. They have and continue to do this by not doing their job of regulating against fraud, lowering interest rates down too levels so low greedy citizens can't resist going into ridiculous levels of debt, and through forcing the citizens to pay for it's wasteful spending.


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 09:34 PM by hoghead cheese
reply to post by venividivici


Actually the Fed is buying Treasuries, Ben Bernanke said they would back in December and they have been buying this week. The Fed is going to do a monumental bond sale next week up to 105 billion dollars, and remember the fed needs at least 2 trillion before the end of the year. Now lets use logic, there are only a few countries in the world that can dish out on a weekly basis billions just to buy treasuries, and these countries would rather spend there money on commodities and mines of resources. The smaller countries don't have any excess money to buy at that amount, so who is buying the rest. It's the Fed so as to make sure a Treasury auction doesn't fail.

In essence we are monetizing the debt, thats it. Lets look at this as you or me owning a convenience store. Business is slow and we need to pay our loan on the building our power or water our clients that we have accounts with buying goods from to sell. So I say to you my partner that "hey, why don't you take this 5,000 dollars from the safe and buy a bunch of goods in this store so it looks like we are doing good on the books". So you do it and sure enough the store is looking like a goldmine. The problem is that at the backend of the deal I took 5,000 from the safe that was savings/profit to make a profit at the front end of the deal. We still have a problem of not making enough money, all we did was just shift what little amount of money that we had back and forth between each of us. We played make-believe, and the rest of the world knows the US is playing make believe also. See we can't print money, but the US can. The problem with printing money is the same with the above scenario I described, your not creating wealth your creating a false representation of your store/bank/state/country solvency.

And remember, Obama and partly Bush promised and loaned out 14 Trillion dollars. So where is that money coming from, the Treasury market. What country or countries have that much money to buy that much in treasuries, especially when they are complaining about the debasement of their investments and the mess up that came from the US in regard to this depression. China has close to 1.5 trillion combined in US dollar assets (money and treasuries), Japan may have less or just a tad more. And the rest of the world is way down from these amounts. What does it look like that they are going to buy another 1 trillion or 5 trillion or 14 trillion in treasuries, they won't and they can't. Where talking about crazy money know even for countries.

And to top it all off, countries are demanding their gold back from our vaults. They want physically be in control of it. Do you remember (you can find it on youtube or just google Germany demands its gold back) that special that NBC did inside the whitehouse full access. Well in one clip the camera crews where in the Oval office and Summers and another guy came in to talk with Obama. They made reference to the German phone call situation and Obama said hows it going and both of them said real good and whatever, and before Summers could say anymore he asks the camera crew to leave because one of the producers said what about the German situation.

Things are getting tough and they are not going to be pretty.


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 09:51 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by Tentickles


S&F

Yes I agree about September- November 2009 and also all hell will break lose in 2010! I have that same insight. The G20 is ready to act the last day of Sept. when the fiscal quarter ends. Scary.

I still enjoy watching the stock market bounce around. They cant even figure out if we will have a "W" recovery we're past the "V" recovery period and that theory Didnt work.

This hasnt happened before, including the crash of 1929. I'm worried about a double digit inflation per year. It wont take much much to sink the boat.

China only bought when we were the goose laying the golden eggs but when the eggs stopped look what they do! It will be severe.


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 09:55 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by truth/seeker


I read here today on ATS that children go first on the vaccines. I'm hoping they arent madatory as some have said.

Also stock up on food. It will dramitically increase.

April 2008 has been worse than the collapse in the Great Depression. One glance at the fall world output, trade, and stock prices puts the recent "green shoots" in perspective.


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 10:02 PM by N3krostatic
reply to post by Tentickles


See I think the economy is headed down but keep in mind that even though change is unlikely, it is possible. However as one said heads will probably roll for this change if it occurs.

But when you say at the beginning of this fall it will begin, I automatically file this away in my head where all other prophecies are stored. Anyone, anywhere that gives any kind of a date other than "in the future" are less likely to be believed, at least by me.

Don't get me wrong, I think eventually it will crash but please don't put a date on it, ever as we can only rarely predict things of this nature.

Either way time will tell.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by N3krostatic]


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 10:16 PM by FritosBBQTwist
Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by Tentickles


i do not even believe in any of this "paper economy" bs anymore lol

inflation deflation its all mumbo jumbo

the "real" economy is always growing, because more products are created and enter the market, and old products are resold in secondary markets like garage sales, ebay, or craigslist

the economy can only "shrink" if products are destroyed

bonds are simply pieces of paper that you trade to someone for more pieces of paper (or electronic bits)

anyone who "bought" these "bonds" just got ripped off big time

this is all going to the chipped/electronic money anyhow, global "credit" systems etc etc

its all by design...so i am not really going to lose any sleep over it at all

[edit on 18-6-2009 by muzzleflash]


I have no real experience in anything regarding economics, but that is how I *currently* see it. The whole printing money thing isn't literal, and it seems like some people see it that way.

If the government is going to fund a business (a failed one), they better get back on their tracks and make profit. If they continue going into debt, it was all useless. Now, I am not even equating fairness into this debate...we all know its not "fair" for million dollar CEO's to continue on failed policies, but the benefits could still be greater than them abandoning such companies.

What I am worried about is things that are just blatantly bad for the economy that Obama wants to push through with. His health care for example...

As you said, the economy is continually growing. IMO, the only *real* way for it to get better is if welfare is struck down in many ways, along with useless government regulatory agencies, and then force people to get jobs or die (of natural causes of course...).

There will be more people working, more money going around, less hand outs, less taxes (or taxes going to better used things such as education and city maintenance)...THE GOVERNMENT CAN NOT FIX THINGS, THEY CAN ONLY DELAY THEM. IT IS SOCIETIES JOB AS A WHOLE TO GET THINGS RUNNING SMOOTHLY.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]


reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 10:16 PM by SkepticPerhaps
reply to post by Doc Velocity


Just because you aren't feeling it doesn't mean it isn't happening, enjoy your comfort, but don't tell us that the economy isn't failing.
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>    ^^TOP^^



USDA Forces Whole Foods To Accept Monsanto
  Posted 9 days ago with 99 member flags
Greece wipes out Citizens Debt!! Tells Bankers to suck it
  Posted 10 days ago with 78 member flags
The Collapse of The American Dream Explained in Animation
  Posted 17 days ago with 53 member flags
Obama on the verge of a deal with the banks
  Posted 15 days ago with 23 member flags
EU financial dictatorship agreed to by EU ministers last night
  Posted 17 days ago with 17 member flags
Bankers requesting that Greece become their debt slaves
  Posted 13 days ago with 15 member flags