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SETI Pioneer Fails To Debunk Crop Circles As ET Messages.

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posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 03:47 AM
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Courtesy:The Tribal Messenger

Is Radio The Optimal Method For Inter Stellar Communications?

Remember Frank Drake, the American astronomer and astrophysicist famous for founding SETI and creating the Drake equation?


In a recently recorded interview, Dr Frank Drake responded to questions concerning the scientific detection of extraterrestrial intelligence. He stated his view that radio signals are the optimal way in which extraterrestrials would communicate with humanity. He gave NASA communications with satellites and space missions as an example of the appropriateness of radio signals. He said that the Search for Extraterrestrials Intelligence (SETI) should focus on those parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that are the most appropriate for radio signals from extraterrestrials.

He couldn’t be farther than the truth! Drake needs to shed his old world paradigms within which he has been constrained to think and has not even attempted to look beyond his nose. Does he for a moment believe that advanced ET civilizations would depend or use the same outmoded technology as radio waves to communicate? They could be thousands if not millions of years ahead of us in technology. It’s not that all habitable star systems came into existence suddenly in a short span of time. There could be systems that supported advanced ETs even before the birth of our Solar System!
And then he goes on to say…


Dr Drake said that the "universe has made it so that radio is the preferred method for interstellar communication."


And how does he know that radio communication is the preferred method used by advanced ET races? Would they still rely on communication through radio signals? For them, this technology would have been passé and so outdated that they probably don’t even have the necessary equipment for radio transmissions! Do we know how to respond to those smoke signals from the Red Indians? How many of us have got the time and inclination to re-learn this antique mode of communication?

And thus Drake’s take on the crop circle phenomena is that since radio is the preferred universal method of communication (Sic), ETs would not be the ones making these CCs, implying that ALL CCs are made by man! (In other words, you could make a sophisticated CC like the one shown above, with a couple of wooden planks, a rope, torch, and some chicken sandwiches!)


Colin Andrews (Of CPRI) said: "I don’t believe there will be a signal of any kind because ET is already here, right under SETI's noses and are interacting and influencing earth events, by means of some crop circles." The idea that Crop Circles are the means by which extraterrestrials communicate with humanity is very plausible. A possible clue is hidden in the very name “crop circle” - that is the swirling clockwise or counterclockwise patterns of the stalks used to make crop circles. Could the principle of rotation be somehow used in both making crop circles and how extraterrestrial communications occur for interstellar distances?


Torsion Field Physics

A Torsion Field is basically the quantum spin of empty space; the large-scale coherent effects of the spin of the particles in the virtual sea. Initial work in this field was performed by Einstein and Cartan in the 1920's, now known as ECT (Einstein-Cartan-theory.) It is said that spin waves have real physical consequences, and that useful technology can be based on "torsion fields" that can be used for communication. Though most of the recent work has been done in Russia, but now this science is gaining ground in the US as well.


Torsion fields have been studied by several groups of Russian scientists for at least three decades and most of that time in secret. What are torsion fields? According to A. Akimov, these fields come in at least three types: E-fields, S-fields, and G-fields. The E, S, and G stand for Electric, Spin, and Gravity fields. The torsion field and its emanations are subtle energy fields. They are separate and distinct from classical Electric, Magnetic, and Gravity fields. Generators for these fields can be shielded against electro-magnetic fields and the torsion field still manifests itself through such shielding.

Torsion fields can be generated, detected, switched on and off (such as for communication purposes), and are a distinct type of energy field heretofore not included in today's classical physics. Torsion field emanations can travel at velocities at least as high as 109 times the speed of light. .


According to Kozyrev and other scientists torsion fields may be an optimal means for extraterrestrials to communicate over the vast interstellar distances. If torsion field communication devices are the standard means of extraterrestrial communications, then do we have an answer to how crop circles are formed? Using some kind of torsion field generator, a crop circle could probably be created at great distances, even interstellar, by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations.

And what of Quantum Gravity Antennas for near instantaneous interstellar communications? A paper by Fran De Aquino of LANL, last revised in Jan 2008 titled, Gravity Control By Means of Electromagnetic Field Through Gas or Plasma at Ultra-Low Pressure includes QGAs (Quantum Gravity Antennas) for near instantaneous interstellar communications by Virtual Gravitational Radiation


The GCC (Gravity Control Cell) antenna radiates graviphotons and gravitational waves simultaneously. Thus it is not only a gravitational antenna, but a Quantum gravitational antenna because it can also emit and detect gravitational Virtual quanta (graviphotons) which in turn can transmit information instantaneously from any distance in the universe without scattering.



Well, we know the theory. Applying this to produce workable systems for near instantaneous interstellar communications isn’t too far away. Now think of an ET civilization, a conservative million years ahead of us in technology……

So where does radio communication figure in all this? It doesn't! It looks like Drake is too far off course. His ideas and concepts seem outdated and he needs to look out of the proverbial box. So is SETI barking up the wrong tree? If he thinks his SETI will some day receive ET signals through radio, I’m afraid that may never happen! Perhaps he needs a re-look at crop circles as a mode of communication with ETs?

Cheers!


Instantaneous Interstellar Communications And Gravity Shielding For Spacecraft!
www.examiner.com...
www.padrak.com...
lanl.arxiv.org...
lanl.arxiv.org...
users.elo.com.br...




posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:18 AM
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Nice post - there's a few things in there I really want to find more about.

I think crop circles are possibly ET generated - some decent science was done regarding the phenomenon, and it seems there's evidence that suggests they are not all manmade - though some certainly have been.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


Why would an ET civ carve graffiti in our wheat and make the messages as vague & ambiguous as possible?

Also your guy there contradicts himself. He says ET are here making crop circles then says its done over interstellar distances? so which is it? I suppose either will do for you as long as it involves ETs, right?

Why do you think circlemakers.org openly ridicules people who think crop circles are made by ET?

I think this just shows how far gone some people who beleive in ufos are tbh



[edit on 18-6-2009 by yeti101]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


hi mike..do you know anything about this criticism of some of the science you linked too?

torsionfraud.narod.ru...



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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If a civilisation is old enough, or advanced enough to travel here, either across the galaxy or universe, then surely they would have a more effective PR department by now.

What exactly is being communicated in these rather attractive designs? Nothing.

If they want to bypass any censorship by our world leaders and "speak to the people" then they are doing are very poor job.

Hypothetically aliens may have a different means of communication and culture, but if they have been able to monitor our communication output, then they should have realised by now, that making mathematically correct polygons and circles in agricultural crops is not the way to go.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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wow! I like the idea of torsion fields being brought up. I think not only could this be a great explanation for Crop Circles, it could also be a means of very quick transportation by these ET's. I read a book about orbs called "The Orb Project Book" by Micael Ledwith and Torsion fields are talked of extensively. Very good book for anyone interested in the subject.

Its funny i never thought of torsion fields to be applied to the UFO phenomenon - Its almost perfect. No, i dont believe ET's are responsible for making ALL Crop Circles, but the intricacy (sp) of them are becoming incredible and the fact that some of these fields are locked up and have security makes me wonder even more! Good thread!



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


It's up to the claimants to prove their case. In other words, those that claim that crop circles are of extraterrestrial origin really need to prove it. This 'failed to debunk' stuff is really getting old, and it's childish. If the believers were honest they would say "this is what we think it is, but we don't have any proof" instead of "this is what is is, prove us wrong"



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by alienesque
 

The Wright brothers, Goddard, Edison, Pons & Fleischmann and many others had two things in common: First, they were leaders in their fields (they had few, if any, peers) and second, they had detractors. Not only detractors, but highly-educated, professional detractors.

These critics were experts anxious to demonstrate their superior knowledge that heavier-than-air craft were impractical, that rocket ships could not fly in a vacuum ("nothing to push against"); light bulbs were not practical; and low-energy nuclear reactions were not possible. Now come Torsion Fields and the skeptics and the detractors are having a field day!

And oh yeah, some scientist did 'prove' during the late 19th century that it was impossible for a human being to move at speeds greater than 50 mph!

If torsion physics is nonsense because it's not been proved, then so is quantum gravity, supersymmetry, dark matter, Higgs particle, cosmic inflation and so on. But why is all this considered the holy grail of science when none of it has been proved so far? - just as torsion fields?

Cheers!



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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Oooops! Double post! How the dickens did that happen?


[edit on 18-6-2009 by mikesingh]

[edit on 18-6-2009 by mikesingh]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
These critics were experts anxious to demonstrate their superior knowledge that heavier-than-air craft were impractical, that rocket ships could not fly in a vacuum ("nothing to push against"); light bulbs were not practical; and low-energy nuclear reactions were not possible. Now come Torsion Fields and the skeptics and the detractors are having a field day!


Wright brothers PROVED flight was possibe
Rockets flying in a vacuum were PROVED correct
Lightbulbs were PROVED practical (eventually)
Nuclear reactors were PROVED possible

Right, just need to prove that a Torsion Field generator can be used to create complex patterns in a field in Wiltshire for the full set. Has anyone got one available?
Has one even been invented yet?

Quantum Gravity Antennas for near instantaneous interstellar communications? Sadly I don't think that's left the Enterprise stage yet

Until we have one of the above available, what other choice do we have? Sit twiddling our fingers until we find its possible or not to even create one? How about lets carry on listening for radio waves until one of these comes along? Sounds like a plan!


[edit on 18/6/09 by Daisy-Lola]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Daisy-Lola
 



Exactly!!!! Excellent plan. Ahh good stuff



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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The title of this article (and post) is very misleading. Dr. Drake was not attempting to debunk crop-circles as ET messages. He was asked a question about a specific crop-circle (the Chilbolton "reply) and gave his opinion on it.

And perhaps most important, Dr. Salla makes a number of logical fallacies common among the UFO community. First, Dr. Salla, et al. have not proven crop circles are the work of aliens trying to send us a message. Instead, he makes a negative-proof fallacy; because Drake did not prove the claim wrong (at least to Salla, thereby making an argument from personal belief fallacy) it must therefore be true. Then the rest of the article is one long special-pleading fallacy and speculation.


Originally posted by mikesingh
And how does he know that radio communication is the preferred method used by advanced ET races?


Says Dr. Drake in the interview:


...in space there are natural sources of what we call noise or static that interfere with our communication systems. When that noise and static is very intense it takes a much larger, much more powerful telescope to make a communication link. Well, it turns out the universe is darkest and quietest at the radio wavelengths we call microwaves. We know this, the extraterrestrials will know this. It is not hard to know this. And they, like us, will exploit these frequencies for very long distance communications...First we can detect the signals they use for their own purposes more easily there because the universe is dark and doesn't interfere. Secondly, if they are purposefully sending us a signal, because they know those are the bands where their signals will be most detectable and where we are most likely to be searching.




Originally posted by mikesingh
Would they still rely on communication through radio signals? For them, this technology would have been passé and so outdated that they probably don’t even have the necessary equipment for radio transmissions!


The question is, how do you know they wouldn't? What is that based on? Yes, there may be more advanced techniques but we do not know if there are.

Even if your speculation proves to be correct, you are still making a common fallacy among UFOs fans; that is, if we are not alone then the aliens en mass are older and more advanced than us. Our galaxy alone is a huge place, there are bound to be civilizations around the same age and around the same technologically. So even if there are civilizations more advanced than our own, SETI is not wrong in looking for signals in the microwave length.

And one has to ask the question; do you really think SETI should just give up looking because other civilizations may have more advance communications techniques. Or do you think we should keep looking, refining our search as our own techniques advance?


Originally posted by mikesingh
And thus Drake’s take on the crop circle phenomena is that since radio is the preferred universal method of communication, ETs would not be the ones making these CCs, implying that ALL CCs are made by man! (In other words, you could make a sophisticated CC like the one shown above, with a couple of wooden planks, a rope, torch, and some chicken sandwiches!)


*GASP* How dare he suggest such a thing!?!

There is nothing about the Chilbolton circle that is outside the range of human capabilities. It is not even symmetrical.


Originally posted by mikesingh
Torsion Field Physics


The article is right in that the Russians did conduct research in to torsion field physics. It was during the Cold War. However, the researcher A. Akimov, was found to be a fraud, wasting state money and fired from his position. Akimov seems to be in the business of promising fantastic advances via torsion field physics, from super weapons to clean energy, "soon," always "soon" and never follows through. It seems torsion field experiments have a hard time standing up to peer review. Source, Source, Source


Originally posted by mikesingh
So where does radio communication figure in all this? It doesn't! It looks like Drake is too far off course. His ideas and concepts seem outdated and he needs to look out of the proverbial box. So is SETI barking up the wrong tree?


Salla, et al., have not proven that torsion field physics created crop circles, and is basing his argument on complete and total speculation. Yet he declares Drake and SETI ignorant and closed-minded for working within our current understanding of the universe.

One has to ask the question; do you really think SETI should just give up looking because other civilizations may have more advance communications techniques. Or do you think we should keep looking, refining our search as our own techniques advance?



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
The Wright brothers, Goddard, Edison, Pons & Fleischmann and many others had two things in common: First, they were leaders in their fields (they had few, if any, peers) and second, they had detractors. Not only detractors, but highly-educated, professional detractors.


So what?

The experience of those cited above those not lend any credence to those promoting ideas outside of the mainstream. It does not make them any more right or wrong. And you have to remember for every example you cited above, there are hundreds now forgotten by history who were hucksters, buffoons or just plain wrong.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


Great thread



You know I have thought this many times before, that advanced ETs likely do not use our primitive communication techniques anymore. I have always postulated that an advanced ET civilization would use some type of 'subspace' EM transmission, specifically in the quantum realm. With the postulate of a spacetime foam(which is where this Torsion Field occurs) and all the possibilities in entails one would think that with enough time to advance in understanding of advanced physics a species would be able to utilize it. I read your older thread about the quantum gravity antenna and I think that is the best theory for FTL navigation. So in essence we could have an alien scientist sitting at his computer, designing a formation, then simply pressing 'send' and it is instantly transmitted multiple light years away on a specific place in space. Seems highly plausible really, IMHO. Although most crop circles are manmade, the 10% or so that remain are likely (IMHO) ET in origin. But you would also think that these ETs would still be able to detect 'ancient' radio band emissions, I mean they still would need to be able to for scientific research. IMO, it doesn't matter because I believe humans long ago made radio contact with ETs, of course it was covered up but that is how it goes apparently,lol.


[edit on 6/18/2009 by jkrog08]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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Nice.

I wonder, is it possible that the crop circles we are seeing (that can't be proven man-made) are actually transmissions with the aim of finding a civilization with relatively similiar technology?

Could the crop circles be transmissions that have gone undetected and the effect they have is leaving the imprint on the fields?

Could it be possible the source of the transmissions are assuming that we have a device capable of receiving the transmissions?

Maybe they are beaming these crop circles here to give us motivation to study different aspects of technology, kind of like leading a horse to water.

Maybe we need to do more research and develop a device like what is described at the end of the OP.

I could imagine, when the device is first turned on, a wave of transmissions would be received explaining many of the questions we ask everyday about E.T.s and UFOs - and probably many other things.

So could a missed transmission, because of it's power and design, be the cause of the crop circles?

Nice mind vice.



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 05:23 AM
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slightly off topic but got to say it:
Scientists lining up in front of the wright brothers shed to tell them that powered flight is impossible?
That's a myth.
an engineer named Lovell stated that powered flight with steam engines wouldn't work. That is the only quote you are going to find on the impossibility of powered flight. And guess what: He was even right. Steam engines still don't produce enough power to lift them off the ground.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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