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Masonry= The True Christianity!!!!

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posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Hey Kriskali777,
Its funny you posted this, cause I would actually disagree and say the closest thing to True Xtianity is Christian Mysticism.

Things is, every system of thought, including Masonry, is teaching it's members that what they teach is the closest to the truth. that is everywhere in every path in every teaching.

Difference in Xtian Mysticism is that you directly experience the truth, enlightenment, God directly yourself. So instead of a person with an Ego telling you how it is, you surpass all intellect/logic/reason and see transcendence and God for yourself.

One thing I still can't wrap my head around, since I have a few Mason friends, is that Masons only read/go by the Old Testament. The New Testament is completely disregarded according to my masonic friends.

Personally, I still feel the OT is bogus and represents the Demiurge, whereas the NT represents the True God as Jesus taught.

Plus all my enlightenments came from reading the NT and getting Baptized. I completely disregarded the OT during all that time because of all the killings in the name of God and other stuff.

Basically, just go within, meditate, self inquiry, gnosticism, gospel of thomas, NT, advaita, Vasistha, Tao, dzogchen, these are all connected. Just find yourself a mystic teacher. You don't need masonry or to belong to some Xtian church. The kingdom of heaven is within. Best ritual is meditation.

I still Love you Kriskali, no offense buddy.




posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Hi ATSers,
no matter if Chritianity accepts it or not; Masonry is more inline with the correct conveyance of the original and spiritual/occult ideals represented within the biblical mysteries; as can be deduced by the symbolic context of biblical stories and the close relationship of these stories to Masonic ritual.


I completely agree.

I came to know this in a completely reverse manner though.
through research into the occult and esoteric schools of thought and philosophy of ancient Egypt and Greece, The Kabbala, Gnostic teachings, I found bit by bit correlations that have already been all amalgamated into a concise and refined practice in Masonry.

So all of the tid-bits of truth in philosophy and practical relegia that I've come across in all my years of research... I see Masonry has already brought together.

Too bad that I seem to have found out all too late.

I think I would have been a great Mason. All the mystery all the realization of the great dream...
I went through life being one who dreams...
with MUCH OPPOSITION to those dreams...
and equally as much negation from others for even thinking them.
I have also been someone who has an insatiable urge to realize those dreams..
And i see the Masons realizing those dreams.

Sometimes I wish I had been introduced to it earlier in life.. and I wouldn't have had to find all the knowledge on my own... but I guess that's what's made it so much more authentic for me.. the fact that I had logically come up with these ideas in my own mind already... and researched them.. and found direct parallels in ancient books of knowledge.. then found that the brightest minds in history were following these same paths all along through Masonry.

But yes.. it's saddening to me to see the children's-book version of christianity being the commonly held absolute perception of the mythology...
and if we all hold a common collective-unconscious field of existence here on earth..
then that children's book version of percieving reality is, in my opinion...indeed poisoning the collective mind of mankind in a very twisted way where it seems as a gleaming fuzzy warm illusion.

Viewing the bible through these my own lenses of understanding reveals to me it's absolute ingenious nature.. all the hidden knowledge.. all the allegorical instructional passages...
the physiological mappings..
phenomenal.
I can say this for the Torah as well.

so when the end days of the apocalypse is pushed through.. and the bible is "over"...

is there any use for a bible at that point? is there any use for "old-christianity" at that point?

seems once you get to the end of a book...
it's time to write another one.
but this time the book doesn' t have an ending............

-

[edit on 24-6-2009 by prevenge]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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There is a huge difference between Christianity and Masonry. Us Christians do not believe that we are God expressed in many forms. We believe that we are created beings with God abiding within us. We are not God but created by God. We need God and God does not need us.

Masonry at it's higher levels is based on the lie told in the Garden of Eden. It is in complete opposition with Christianity.

God bless!



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Tir_McDohl
There is a huge difference between Christianity and Masonry. Us Christians do not believe that we are God expressed in many forms. We believe that we are created beings with God abiding within us. We are not God but created by God. We need God and God does not need us.
The first requirement in becoming a Mason is belief in God the creator. Masons don't believe that they are God, they worship He who created them in His image, just like you do.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

The first requirement in becoming a Mason is belief in God the creator. Masons don't believe that they are God, they worship He who created them in His image, just like you do.



Im not a mason basher, I think they mean well, my contention is that men dont join the masons for Godly reasons or unGodly reasons. Would that be a fair comment? Do they really worship God persay. Most clubs or organisations have requirements for membership, generally they are agreed to in order to become a member so as to receive certain benefits of being a member. Thats often as far as it goes.

It would appear that one can not even be considered to be a president of the United states with out being a member of certain Masonic orders. In other words, certain positions and levels of achievement are closed unless one is a member, hence one joins so as to have an open door for political financial asperations Ie it's a means to another end. Can you see what I'm getting at.

Im not saying all who join churches join for Godly reasons, many join up to be able to marry the woman or man they love etc.

I just want a straight forward honest answer from a mason on this straight forward question. Anyone??

This thread has started with the premise that Masons are more Christian than Christians. And we all know that the Church endures immense scrutiny and immense criticism for hypocrisy, and rightly so. How then can a mason make such claims, when they are in effect a secret hidden society with no real accountability as to what goes on behind closed doors. Not to mention the fact that I have Masonic family members and friends who did not join up to seek God they where seeking mamon. You cannot worship God and mamon.


In response to another poster: The closest thing to true Christianity is Biblical Christianity which is where the name comes from. Christianity is from the bible.

Mystic Christianity is counterfeit resembling pagan new age beliefs, all stolen from the bible and basicallly twisted and perverted.

God gave us His word so that we can clearly identify any counterfeit.

Sticking the word Christain into a name doesn't make it Christian.

Having said that "mystic" or Gnostic "Christianity" is the same as or very close to Masonic teachings. The G in the masonic logo stands for Gnosticism.




[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Imago Dei
Im not a mason basher, I think they mean well, my contention is that men dont join the masons for Godly reasons or unGodly reasons. Would that be a fair comment?
I suppose that's fair enough. Masonry's party line is "to make good men better". It's not about worship, it's not explicitly religious, but many of its foundations, morals, etc are based on the Old Testament.


It would appear that one can not even be considered to be a president of the United states with out being a member of certain Masonic orders. In other words, certain positions and levels of achievement are closed unless one is a member, hence one joins so as to have an open door for political financial asperations Ie it's a means to another end. Can you see what I'm getting at.
Only 14 of 44 US Presidents have been Masons, so I'm not sure you can really draw a correlation. As a matter of fact, the number of men who are Masons has dropped significantly and steadily over the last 40 years (starting to come back now, but the numbers are not nearly what they were in, say, the 1950s). Proportionally, the number of people who happen to be in positions of power who are also Masons has dropped as well. To the best of my knowledge there are only 2 or 3 Masons currently in congress, if that. I think maybe one state governor is currently a Mason. People assume anyone in a position of power is a Mason, but it's simply not true.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Imago Dei
Im not a mason basher, I think they mean well, my contention is that men dont join the masons for Godly reasons or unGodly reasons. Would that be a fair comment?
I suppose that's fair enough. Masonry's party line is "to make good men better". It's not about worship, it's not explicitly religious, but many of its foundations, morals, etc are based on the Old Testament.


It would appear that one can not even be considered to be a president of the United states with out being a member of certain Masonic orders. In other words, certain positions and levels of achievement are closed unless one is a member, hence one joins so as to have an open door for political financial asperations Ie it's a means to another end. Can you see what I'm getting at.
Only 14 of 44 US Presidents have been Masons, so I'm not sure you can really draw a correlation. As a matter of fact, the number of men who are Masons has dropped significantly and steadily over the last 40 years (starting to come back now, but the numbers are not nearly what they were in, say, the 1950s). Proportionally, the number of people who happen to be in positions of power who are also Masons has dropped as well. To the best of my knowledge there are only 2 or 3 Masons currently in congress, if that. I think maybe one state governor is currently a Mason. People assume anyone in a position of power is a Mason, but it's simply not true.


Thanks for the response. Ok point taken about the president = mason. You have been able to evade the question and point I was making because of my wrong assumption however, the point I was making as to real motivation as to why men join the masons is because they think they will get a head in life financially becuase of the network, not because of any spiritual motivation, can you verify or refute that please? I dont have an issue or a problem with this motivation, there is nothing wrong with trying to network to get ahead. I have a problem with people claiming it's true Christianity and super spritual, because that's utter bilge.

I met a mason the other day, he was out front about it, very proud to be a one, also in the rotary and local community board , into restoring old buildings for posterity, works is arse off in real estate aswell very proud of his antigue funriture and the bigggest house in the street, holiday home by the sea he was proud of too and what have you in is late 60 or 70s. Lovely bloke. Good on him. But the premis of this thread is ludicrous in the extreme. If anything masonry is open to people of all faiths and religions arent they? It would appera his connectyion in teh rotary and the coucnil and the masons havenot hindered his financial properity, did it help? Who knows? Wouldnt hurt. Again no problem with that. You mention the old testament, is it a required reading for all mason?











[edit on 25-6-2009 by Imago Dei]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 



Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Although the Christian Concept was 'high-jacked' by Emperor Constantine on 20th May AD325, when the creation of what we now call 'the chuch' took place with his announcement of the Council Of Nicea; Masonic ritual carries a heritage that has been traced back to the Hermetic practices of the High-priests of ancient Egypt.

Why should anyone listen to your “expertise” on Christianity, when you have taken your (quite incorrect) facts from the fictional “Da Vinci Code”?

Don’t try and come back here an tell me that is not where you got this from either, because that is the only source information that attributes the formation of the Church to anything that occurred at the Council of Nicaea. In reality, the Council had nothing to do with the formation of Christianity, or the choosing of scriptural books as alleged in the “Da Vinci Code”, but rather was to deal with the Arian Heresy.

The Christian Church had already been around for close to 300 years at the time of the Council of Nicaea.

Oh, BTW, why can I state that I am a Satanists, and be accepted as a Freemason, since its “True Christianity”?


[edit on 6/25/2009 by defcon5]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Imago Dei
You have been able to evade the question and point I was making because of my wrong assumption however, the point I was making as to real motivation as to why men join the masons is because they think they will get a head in life financially becuase of the network, not because of any spiritual motivation, can you verify or refute that please?
I guess the reason I evaded that is because there's not an easy answer. Do SOME people join it hoping to get ahead in life? Sure. And I'm sure a lot who do probably go away disappointed, because it just doesn't work like that. But there are any number of other reasons why someone might join. When I became a Mason, I did so more thinking of it as a self-help class with philosophical and spiritual underpinnings which used universal allegory to allow me to re-examine my own life and place in the world. But that's just me.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry can be a great way to contribute both financially and in deed and service to your community. The Shiners burn hospitals, Scottish Rite learning centers for people with dyslexia, and various other local and national programs are in place that could be really appealing to someone who feels philanthropy is the key to happiness.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry allows them to explore esoteric teachings, a wide variety of symbolisms, philosophies, etc. This could be really appealing to someone who feels that learning is a lifelong quest, and drinking from that bottomless well is the key to happiness.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry allows them to practice ritual that has gone mostly unchanged for more than 300 years. These people live for order, memorization, the perfect display of precision. To them, being able to carry on this age-old tradition is the key to happiness.

And still others become Masons because Masonry offers them fraternity—a sense of brotherhood, camaraderie and belonging that they might not have been able to find elsewhere. To them, having a network of friends who have their back through thick and thin. Brothers to celebrate with during the best of times, and commiserate with during the worst of times. Such belonging, to them, is the key to happiness.

And no, I don't begrudge any of the above their motivations for joining Masonry, because it is all of that and more. In truth, it's what YOU bring to it that makes it special to YOU. And somehow, we all manage to get along.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Imago Dei
You have been able to evade the question and point I was making because of my wrong assumption however, the point I was making as to real motivation as to why men join the masons is because they think they will get a head in life financially becuase of the network, not because of any spiritual motivation, can you verify or refute that please?
I guess the reason I evaded that is because there's not an easy answer. Do SOME people join it hoping to get ahead in life? Sure. And I'm sure a lot who do probably go away disappointed, because it just doesn't work like that. But there are any number of other reasons why someone might join. When I became a Mason, I did so more thinking of it as a self-help class with philosophical and spiritual underpinnings which used universal allegory to allow me to re-examine my own life and place in the world. But that's just me.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry can be a great way to contribute both financially and in deed and service to your community. The Shiners burn hospitals, Scottish Rite learning centers for people with dyslexia, and various other local and national programs are in place that could be really appealing to someone who feels philanthropy is the key to happiness.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry allows them to explore esoteric teachings, a wide variety of symbolisms, philosophies, etc. This could be really appealing to someone who feels that learning is a lifelong quest, and drinking from that bottomless well is the key to happiness.

There are some people who become Masons because Masonry allows them to practice ritual that has gone mostly unchanged for more than 300 years. These people live for order, memorization, the perfect display of precision. To them, being able to carry on this age-old tradition is the key to happiness.

And still others become Masons because Masonry offers them fraternity—a sense of brotherhood, camaraderie and belonging that they might not have been able to find elsewhere. To them, having a network of friends who have their back through thick and thin. Brothers to celebrate with during the best of times, and commiserate with during the worst of times. Such belonging, to them, is the key to happiness.

And no, I don't begrudge any of the above their motivations for joining Masonry, because it is all of that and more. In truth, it's what YOU bring to it that makes it special to YOU. And somehow, we all manage to get along.


The camaraderie would attract me, it's hard to find that in the world. I used to have it in my young sporting days. Never found it in the church sadly which I never quite figured out.

Great answer, thanks for the effort. All the best to you.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Imago Dei]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Rather than being narky, and upset you should be overjoyed by anytalk of Christianity- or did you just throw Satanism in the mix for a few Ohhhs and Ahhhs?

You see 'Satan is the best friend the church has ever had' (I won't tell you who quoted that; because you obviously already know)!And alternatively, any church talk gives creedence to Satanism- but alas, they are both entities entwinded within the same cycle-just opposites.

The question you may ask yourself is: Why on Earth would a Satanist wish to become a Mason???
Not really sure of your beliefs

I doubt if you even know the first thing about Satanism



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by randomguy
masons: take oaths that if they betray the secrets emparted to them they will die

but Jesus said:

Matthew 5:34 “But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING. 36 “Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 “But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.



That oaths are permissible to Christians is shown by the example of Our Lord (Mat. 26:63) and of Paul; (11 Cor. 1:23; Gal. 1:20) and even God Himself (Heb. 6:13-18). Consequently when Christ said "Swear not at all" (Mat. 5:34), He was laying down the principle that the Christian must not have two standards of truth, but that his ordinary speech must be as sacredly true as his oath. In the kingdom of God, where the principles hold sway, oaths become unnecessary.
'The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia' (1949), Vol.4, p.2173



It is one thing to swear, and another to swear on something.

Masons swear on their bodys (that their throats will be slit, etc), in direct contradiction to this verse:

36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.

And dont forget this verse:

37 “But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.

So Jesus says swearing on your head is from evil, but you say those who swear on their heads are true christians ?




masons have a hierarchical power structure

Luke 22:25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.


So having a manager at work is bad? Great for self-employed people, damnation for the rest of us?

[edit on 6/24/2009 by JoshNorton]


hahaha, more spin.

Jesus was talking about the "kingdom of God", which is what the christian church is suposed to be like (to bad it isnt), and not about your work place.

Jesus washed the feet of his disciples and said he who wants to be greater in his "organization" must be a servant.

He also said give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar and to God what belongs to God.

He didnt say that if you join a hierarchical organization as a work place it is bad, he said to his disciples to not let their organization become hierarchical.

42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
43 Not so with you.Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20)


Now you say: "Masonry = The true christianity"


And I havent even gotten into the real serious stuff:


The HOLY SPIRIT:


16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” (Mark 16)


Love your enemy.

Turn the other cheek.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by dominicus


Plus all my enlightenments came from reading the NT and getting Baptized. I completely disregarded the OT during all that time because of all the killings in the name of God and other stuff.

Basically, just go within, meditate, self inquiry, gnosticism, gospel of thomas, NT, advaita, Vasistha, Tao, dzogchen, these are all connected. Just find yourself a mystic teacher. You don't need masonry or to belong to some Xtian church. The kingdom of heaven is within. Best ritual is meditation.

I still Love you Kriskali, no offense buddy.


That is a contradiction. Nowhere in th NT it says to go inside yourself and meditate.

John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

Galatians 6:2 "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.


John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”


Isaiah 53:

5.[...] Do you really think this will please the LORD?

6 "No, the kind of fasting I want calls you to free those who are wrongly imprisoned and to stop oppressing those who work for you. Treat them fairly and give them what they earn.

7 I want you to share your food with the hungry and to welcome poor wanderers into your homes. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help.

8 "If you do these things, your salvation will come like the dawn. Yes, your healing will come quickly. Your godliness will lead you forward, and the glory of the LORD will protect you from behind.

Notice the last verse: "If you do these things, your salvation will come like the dawn. Yes, your healing will come quickly."



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by prevenge
 


I`ll skip over the occult intro if you dont mind...




So all of the tid-bits of truth in philosophy and practical relegia that I've come across in all my years of research... I see Masonry has already brought together.


So according to you, all the occult stuff that you know of, is also found in masonry... Hahaha Yea, I wont disagree with you there.

What I disagree with is that you claim that the occult poison is christianity.




Too bad that I seem to have found out all too late.


No demon summoning for you...

Its not fair man... I tell you its not fair !




[......] And i see the Masons realizing those dreams.


Man you are promoting the # out of theese masons...




[...] more masonic promotion





and if we all hold a common collective-unconscious field of existence here on earth..


say what you will man, but thiss isnt christianity. You are misrepresenting occult # and pushing it under the label of christianity.

Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

This wolf doesnt even hide he`s into occult stuff.

You talk about the bible and the Torah. You forget to mention in your seduction alure to acultism that BOTH prohibit occult practices and call them abominations in the eyes of God.

In the bible, practicing occult stuff is described as one of the surest ways that you can make God want to kick your ass. I dont mean he will withdraw his love or something, I mean he will want to kick your ass, BAD.

Here are some biblical "masons":




Ezekiel 8: 9 And he said to me, “Go in and see the wicked and detestable things they are doing here.” 10 So I went in and looked, and I saw portrayed all over the walls all kinds of crawling things and detestable animals and all the idols of the house of Israel. 11 In front of them stood seventy elders of the house of Israel,[...] Each had a censer in his hand, and a fragrant cloud of incense was rising. 12 He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each at the shrine of his own idol? They say, ‘The Lord does not see us; the Lord has forsaken the land.’” 13 Again, he said, “You will see them doing things that are even more detestable.” 14 Then he brought me to the entrance to the north gate of the house of the Lord, and I saw women sitting there, mourning for Tammuz. 15 He said to me, “Do you see this, son of man? You will see things that are even more detestable than this.” 16 He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east. 17 He said to me, “Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the house of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually provoke me to anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! 18 Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them.”



They say, ‘The Lord does not see us; the Lord has forsaken the land.’”

You have just rephrased it alittle: "and if we all hold a common collective-unconscious field of existence here on earth.. "




so when the end days of the apocalypse is pushed through.. and the bible is "over"... is there any use for a bible at that point?


First you like the book, then you dont... Cmon dude, I thought it had all the occult # you like in it.


[edit on 28-6-2009 by randomguy]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Tir_McDohl
Masonry at it's higher levels is based on the lie told in the Garden of Eden. It is in complete opposition with Christianity.

God bless!


You should try reading the rest of the chapter, as God repeats the "lie" himself.

Such was not and is not the deception of the serpent. The deception of the serpent has to do with the loss of free will, and being subjected to the evil of this world. In order to be subjected to the evil and such, then we are born into this world ignorant, as if we were born knowing the truth we would never allow the evil to take place.



Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


As you are currently on the earth, then you have already eaten from the tree of knowledge. The tree of knowledge will make one wise, but it's a tough road to that wisdom.

In order to understand good, you must experience evil. No different than in order to understand hot, you must understand cold and vice versa. Thus, why the tree makes one 'wise'.

I'm not posting this in defense of Masons, but just because people always quote these things as the "lie of the serpent", but they never seem to realize or mention the fact that god repeats the same thing in the same chapter.

You took from that tree to learn both good and evil, you are quarantined on earth as a result to protect all life that is not evil. You will remain quarantined until you gain knowledge of good vs evil and then have the wisdom to make the correct judgments. At which point you will no longer be quarantined on this planet as you are not harmful to others. This of course means following the commandments.

Men got the commandments and misunderstood them, became hypocrites and so forth. Thus, Jesus comes and fulfills the laws and brings understanding on the proper way of following them. So that hopefully you would believe and follow in his correct path, thus being saved from this world.

As you are already here now, then to remain ignorant on purpose is to basically accept evil. If you were still in the garden, then it would be 1 thing. But you are not in the garden, you are here and we know who's kingdom this is.

Check out Proverbs 8.



1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.


Wisdom and understanding stands in the top of high places, along the path and so forth. Meaning, you will need these things to make the journey "back".

Entire chapter is good, but I'm going to skip a bit. I recommend reading it all.



10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.


Wisdom, understanding and knowledge are the true riches of the father, more valuable than any material possession.



17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.


And if you find the father early, he will fill your treasures with those riches.




[edit on 6/28/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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I disagree with you on your thought of having to experience evil to understand good. That is stated nowhere in the Bible and therefore a mere assumption. The angels appear to have a firm grasp of good and evil.. yet the Bible does not ever state that they were once infected by sin as we are.. In fact the Bible states that Lucifer was created perfect..

Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Angels were created perfect yet know good from evil. They have the choice to obey or disobey (sin) the will of God.

Due to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit.. we now have to learn the hard way. God in His mercy did not take away our opportunity for eternal life.. He has given us another way to receive it as a workaround. This is why we must remain humble and thankful.

Therefore.. I strongly disagree with your assumption that to know good.. you must experience evil. I believe that to be a lie. The Bible states this nowhere.. The angels were created as perfect beings yet know.. Therefore that idea is pure assumption.



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Tir_McDohl
In fact the Bible states that Lucifer was created perfect..

Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
And where exactly in the Bible does it say Lucifer was ever an angel? Oh, right. It doesn't. That was Milton, a 17th century poet, who wrote that. Not the word of God.



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Tir_McDohl
I disagree with you on your thought of having to experience evil to understand good. That is stated nowhere in the Bible and therefore a mere assumption. The angels appear to have a firm grasp of good and evil.. yet the Bible does not ever state that they were once infected by sin as we are.. In fact the Bible states that Lucifer was created perfect..

Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Angels were created perfect yet know good from evil. They have the choice to obey or disobey (sin) the will of God.

Due to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit.. we now have to learn the hard way. God in His mercy did not take away our opportunity for eternal life.. He has given us another way to receive it as a workaround. This is why we must remain humble and thankful.

Therefore.. I strongly disagree with your assumption that to know good.. you must experience evil. I believe that to be a lie. The Bible states this nowhere.. The angels were created as perfect beings yet know.. Therefore that idea is pure assumption.



It's a matter of understanding. You could not understand good without knowing evil.



Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


www.answers.com...



The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.


Now, you could always be good and that is how they were before they ate from the fruit. They were just naturally good, and had no clue of evil.

But in order to gain that wisdom, and the ability to know right from wrong, and good from evil, then one must experience and know them both.

So basically, in the end we have to experience this, only to end up choosing to do what we did naturally and without thought/struggle in the garden to begin with. The only difference is after, we will just understand it and have a bit more wisdom.

Either way you want to slice it, we've already eaten from the fruit, and the only thing we can do now is to try and gain that wisdom, learn the lessons and fix our mistakes(repent for our sins).


[edit on 7/4/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Tir_McDohl
In fact the Bible states that Lucifer was created perfect..

Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
And where exactly in the Bible does it say Lucifer was ever an angel? Oh, right. It doesn't. That was Milton, a 17th century poet, who wrote that. Not the word of God.



“You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.

(Ezekiel 28)



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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“You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.

(Ezekiel 28)
I would have to say that a cherub is an angel.
I have one word only, and it's the name of the god the free masons are later encouraged to worship when they reach the level of Royal Arch Masonry, or the 7th degree.

Anyway,
jahbuhlun. (jah-baal-on)
The name jahbuhlun has three syllables representing a composite God made up of three subordiante deities. The masonic material later identifies the three as Yah (or Yahweh), baal, and osiris. Logically, the name should be spelled yah-baal-on, but Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor admits that over the years the spelling has been "corrupted" by freemasonry until it reached it's current form.

PHILLIPPIANS 2: 9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exhalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Tell me the significance,
when my husband goes to work and talks to a freemasonic individual who happens to go out of town once a month, come back, and tell him of the explicit sexual stories he experienced in a very mysterious way. He said, as he looked behind him and side to side, "we know where King Solomon's gold is" and compared freemasonry not to Christianity but, " More like the Skulls" a fraternity at Yale University George Bush and George W. Bush are alumni of.
put this into perspective.
1 of the seven deadly sins happens to be premarrital sex. They're not deadly sins because you will go to hell, but naturally because you will die an early death, and if you look around at the increase in vinerial disease, it's well over 200% within the last 50 years! Even though God will forgive you, you still reap consequences. Another source of information is the movie with Tom Cruz "Eyes wide shut". It emphasizes on the illuminati as satanists and their secret monthly meetings consisting of orgies and murders. The director of this move died 4 days later after his final cut was submitted. Can anyone other than me make a real life connection between this freemason and this movie? This material is brought to my husband at his workplace as a sort of marketing scam to join the masonic fraternity. How is that Christian?
Her's another point,
This person referred freemasonry not to christianity but to the "Skulls" fraternity at Yale unversity. 2+2=4 right?
well, the symbol of a skull in itself represents a dead human, and if a fraternity is using that as a sybolic front for their organization, what can I assume they stand for? And why in the world is baphomet carved into stone in the entryway at Yale unversity? It's safe to say I think, alot of freemasons happen to be architects right? The same architects that constructed Yale? The Yale where the horned god baphomet is carved in stone??
freemasonry in itself, regrdless of what they stand for cannot be Christian, because Christians who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed in the Holy Bible can't belong to a secret society. It IS disrespectful and BLASPHEMIC to God to hide anything from him.
BTW don't freemasons often make secret hand signs that would mean harm to someone who tell's their secrets? Like the fist below the chin? How does that work with Christanity? God says, if you are not with me you are against me. So it doesn't matter what you believe, If it's not in Jesus you will go to hell. There's only black and white



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