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Everything About the Holocaust

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posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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The Holocaust is still an extremely sensitive subject (obviously).

Questioning what happened is a big no-no. It's like questioning the acts of Mother Teresa (which actually, is a very legit thing to do, but that's another topic). You just don't go there.

IMO, anyone who denies the Holocaust actually happened has an agenda. That's not to say there is nothing to question though!

One reason some people are upset about the attention the Holocaust gets, relative to other genocides, is because Jews were the main victims, but not the only victims of Hitler's regime.

I also think there is a legitimate reason to question the motive of the Holocaust. While the idea of a vast "Jewish conspiracy" is ridiculous, I definitely think it's possible the Israeli elite have connections to the global elite, and this would mean deals with the Nazis.

What I'm saying, is just because it's ridiculous to say the Holocaust didn't happen, just like it's absurd to say there weren't planes in the 9/11 attacks, you shouldn't toss everything out.




posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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um. alright. any ideas or something about what "actually" happened?

or even reasons why people should doubt the story about the holocaust?



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
um. alright. any ideas or something about what "actually" happened?

or even reasons why people should doubt the story about the holocaust?


Well I'm just saying while it's quite obvious millions of Jews died, there are still unanswered questions about it.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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ya there is nothing wrong with questioning aspects of it, that is how we learn new things about it

i do agree holocaust deniers have an agenda, because it is obvious that it did happen to some extent

it is like denying that the Nanjing (Nanking) massacre ever happened (and it did there is alot of proof)
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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I doubt that the so called holocaust happened in any fashion like it has been presented.

Stating that anyone who denies it has an agenda, is a good way to poison the well. Anyone who raises any facts that contradict it - well they have an agenda and you simply can't trust any evidence they might present - no matter how compelling. That is purely close mindedness - and filtering out opposing views simply because you personally don't like them.

Evidence should be examined wherever it leads - and to assemble objective evidence into a meaningful explanation of historical events should imply that someone wants to understand history.

There was a lot to gain by hyping the loss to the jews - but there seems little evidence that the jews were more discriminated against than gypsies, or other minorities.

The entire assertion regarding gas chambers seems to have so many holes its hardly credible.

Even calling it 'the holocaust' is a scam - it was just Hitler being Hitler - and imprisoning and killing people he didn't like.

The number of people imprisoned and killed is wildly overstated - and even if it was true - then the hundreds of millions that died under Stalin dwarf it in scope - but many people have no idea that hundreds of millions were killed in Stalins Russia - and it doesn't rate a snazzy name like " HOLOCAUST!!" Wow - flashing lights and scary music - what a media/historical hype job.

While certainly jewish peoples suffered under Hitler, were incarcerated and killed - so were a lot of others.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by Amagnon]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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I have no reason to doubt that the holocaust happened.

I have EVERY reason to object to laws that make the simple act of "questioning" ANY aspect of history (or, for that matter, anything else) illegal.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


There were millions of non-jews killed in the Holocaust as well. Hitlers agenda did include ridding the continent of Europe of Jewish people. It just so happened that many others got in the way. Too many to list. Did the OP have a specific question about the Holocaust?



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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I still think the Allies showcased their racism by the dropping THE BOMB on Japan first instead of Europe!

And they had to do it twice!! And to think that Japan is much further away!



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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How can anyone deny that the holocaust occurred?! There is hardcore evidence that millions of people were brutally murdered (e.g. film, pictures, journals, articles, paintings, etc...)

Sure, their might be a few anecdotal evidence that side tracks from the main evidence, but you still cannot deny that millions of innocent people were brutally murdered and tortured!

If anyone has evidence refuting the holocaust, then by all means please post a link to this supposed evidence! If you don't believe mine then I can certainly post a link to evidence to support my point.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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Well.. to throw some ammo on the fire...

www.wintersonnenwende.com...

About the Jewish declaration of war on Germany, prior to the holocaust.

news.ronatvan.com...

This link is about the international red cross report released which showed a staggeringly lower death toll than the 6 million number, and for mostly disease. The IRC is an independent orginisation whos purpose is to investigate war deaths and conditions of POWs etc. If you do research into the subject of death toll you will see many varied numbers, as high as 9 million and down to 100-200 thousand.

groups.google.com...

A google group discussing the subject. Interesting reading, especially about reported deaths and numbers.


This subject is 'untouchable'. It's just like the '9/11' disinfo response - 'you are defiling the families of the victims with your theories' rubbish.
The anti semitic/racist tag will no doubt be used on this thread at some stage - default response to shut you up.

If there's supposedly no conspiracy then why would it be so bad to question events, no matter how sensitive they are? Wouldn't knowing the truth be the most important thing there is, to be better informed of world history and what really happened?

I personally have not researched enough into this to form an accurate or detailed opinion of what occured. From what evidence I have seen and the MSM holocaust/anti semite branding of people who question the holocaust, I believe something is up - possibly numbers or facts are not entirely accurate or completely fabricated.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Maybe holocaust isnt the right word for it either ?
I mean, how many of the jews were burnt as offerings ??


Holocaust
The most common meaning nowadays is the Nazi genocide of the Jews. Sometimes other victims who were murdered by the Nazis on the basis of their group identity are included, in particular, the gypsies (Roma).

Answer
The word Holocaust means great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life by fire.

Answer
In its original Middle English form, derived from Greek, it was used to mean a burnt offering. This later broadened to any major destruction due to fire, and broadened further to mean any mass destruction. When used in capitalized form, it is specifically referring to the mass destruction of Jewish and other people by the Nazi Party during World War Two.

Answer
It comes from the Greek word "holokaustos", which means "burned whole". It has been used in English for a long time in the sense of disaster involving many deaths (especially by fire).

Answer
Holocaust means burning by fire, because innocent people were gassed and then their corpses were burned in crematoria. Also many people were shot, beaten, or starved to death, and then burned or gassed.


I mean, geting cremated after you are dead doesnt count as an 'offering', the subject is already dead ...



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


WTF are you talking about, germany surrendered 3 months before the bomb was ready



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
I have no reason to doubt that the holocaust happened.

I have EVERY reason to object to laws that make the simple act of "questioning" ANY aspect of history (or, for that matter, anything else) illegal.


Definitely. It's just how the topic's been made holy and untouchable that annoys me and many other people, and really just ends up fueling racist people.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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Israeli Jews prefer the term "Shoah" to describe the crimes of Hitler's regime against the Jewish people.

I think the Shoah/Holocaust should include ALL the civilians that died under Hitler's regime, and people should also recognize the genocides that happened in Asia that were just as bad or worse during World War 2.

You can't blame the Jews for this, it's just a historical error that makes people care more about the Jewish deaths than the other deaths. I'm sure plenty of Jews also think the non-Jewish victims should get more press.

Hitler did hate the Jews more than anyone else (though Gypsies would be a close second), but trust me, if he had his way, he would have killed everyone who wasn't German or at least close (ie, English, Czech, Norse, etc).



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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In my honest opinion i think the holocaust is a lie, these are some extracts from a good book 'Did 6 million really die'. I apologise if my opinion is wrong but alot of the evidence point that it is, and if it is a lie then it would be the biggest most grotesque lie ever perpetrated, costing millions their lives.


Of course, atrocity propaganda is nothing new. It has accompanied every conflict of the 20th century and doubtless will continue to do so. During the First World War, the Germans were actually accused of eating Belgian babies, as well as delighting to throw them in the air and transfix them on bayonets. The British also alleged that the German forces were operating a “Corpse Factory”, in which they boiled down the bodies of their own dead in order to obtain glycerin and other commodities, a calculated insult to the honour of an Imperial army. After the war, however, came the retractions; indeed, a public statement was made by the Foreign Secretary in the House of Commons apologizing for the insults to German honour, which were admitted to be war-time propaganda.





No such statements have been made after the Second World War. In fact, rather than diminish with the passage of years, the atrocity propaganda concerning the German occupation, and in particular their treatment of the Jews, has done nothing but increase its virulence, and elaborate its catalogue of horrors. Gruesome paperback books with lurid covers continue to roll from the presses, adding continuously to a growing mythology of the concentration camps and especially to the story that no less than Six Million Jews were exterminated in them.





What has rendered the atrocity stories of the Second World War so uniquely different from those of the First? Why were the latter retracted while the former are reiterated louder than ever? Is it possible that the story of the Six Million Jews is serving a political purpose, even that it is a form of political blackmail?





So far as the Jewish people themselves are concerned, the deception has been an incalculable benefit. Every conceivable race and nationality had its share of suffering in the Second World War, but none has so successfully elaborated it and turned it to such great advantage. The alleged extent of their persecution quickly aroused sympathy for the Jewish national homeland they had sought for so long; after the War the British Government did little to prevent Jewish emigration to Palestine which they had declared illegal, and it was not long afterwards that the Zionists wrested from the Government the land of Palestine and created their haven from persecution, the State of Israel. Indeed, it is a remarkable fact that the Jewish people emerged from the Second World War as nothing less than a triumphant minority. Dr. Max Nussbaum, the former chief rabbi of the Jewish community in Berlin, stated on April 11, 1953: “The position the Jewish people occupy today in the world—despite the enormous losses—is ten times stronger than what it was twenty years ago.” It should be added, if one is to be honest, that this strength has been much consolidated financially by the supposed massacre of the Six Million, undoubtedly the most profitable atrocity allegation of all time. To date, the staggering figure of six thousand million pounds has been paid out in compensation by the Federal Government of West Germany, mostly to the State of Israel (which did not even exist during the Second World War), as well as to individual Jewish claimants


Ernst Zündel " www.zundelsite.org... "

There are also countless video's on the internet which backup the claim.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:07 AM
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Cmon dude, this guy is a Neo-Nazi.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Cmon dude, this guy is a Neo-Nazi.

en.wikipedia.org...


Thats right - label him, then you can discount every bit of evidence he might bring up.

God I want to shoot myself in the head sometimes .. who is the writer for wikipedia?

Who might want to label anyone who contradicts the holocaust as an anti-Semitic neo-nazi extremist.

I could label you a pedophile - put your name on wiki and make up any old story I wanted. If I paid a few people to keep it happening - then you would live the brand name.

Wikipedia makes truth a commodity - people are paying, and have been paying for a long time for people to edit wiki in certain ways.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:37 AM
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Within a few years it began disseminating Nazi sympathizer literature, including Zündel's The Hitler We Loved and Why,


Please .... it's a fair label.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by Donnie Darko]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:37 AM
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The fact of the matter is, if u deny or question whether or not the holocaust truely exists you will be labled a neo-nazi.
Here is a video from a jewish student.
Part 1


Part 2


Part 3


Part 4


Part 5


Part 6


Part 7



If the holocaust was real then why is it illegal to question it in so many countries ? If you want to prove something is right then you allow the questions to be asked and you prove them wrong.




In 1951 Léon Poliakov wrote on the subject of the “programme to exterminate the Jews of Europe”: “No document remains, perhaps none has ever existed” (Bréviaire de la haine, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1974 [1951], p. 171; English version: Harvest of Hate, New York, Holocaust Library, 1979, revised and expanded edition).





In 1960 Martin Broszat, member of the Institute of Contemporary History in Munich, wrote: “Neither at Dachau, nor at Bergen-Belsen, nor at Buchenwald were any Jews or other detainees gassed” (“Keine Vergasung in Dachau”, Die Zeit, August 19, 1960, p. 16). However, at the Nuremberg trial, a film showing the alleged Dachau gas chamber was projected and there are numerous testimonies of alleged homicidal gassings in the three aforementioned camps. Today, at Dachau, a sign indicates in five languages that the “gas chamber” was never used. It is impossible to know on what criteria the decision was taken, in 1960, thus to revise the history of those camps and not to revise, on the precise point of the gas chamber, the history of the other camps.
Remark : what right can there be to forbid the questioning of such a fluctuating, arbitrary history?





In 1968 Olga Wormser-Migot, in her thesis on Le Système concentrationnaire nazi, 1933-1945, (Paris, Presses universitaires de France), gave an ample exposition of what she called “the problem of the gas chambers” (p. 541-544). She voiced her scepticism as to the worth of some well-known witnesses’ accounts attesting to the existence of gas chambers in camps such as Mauthausen or Ravensbrück. On Auschwitz-I she was certain: that camp where, still today, tourists visit an alleged gas chamber “had no gas chamber”.
Remark: in light of the fact that the testimonies about other camps are no different from the testimonies about these three camps, one may well ask: what right can there be to have forbidden, since 1990, a questioning that was still allowed in 1968?





In 1979 thirty-four French historians signed a lengthy declaration in reply to my technical arguments aiming to demonstrate that the allegation of the existence and functioning of the Nazi gas chambers ran up against some radical material impossibilities (notably, the impossibility for a group of men to enter, “whilst smoking and eating”, a room that was flooded with hydrogen cyanide and touch, handle and take out, using all their strength, thousands of bodies suffused with that poison). Drafted by Léon Poliakov and Pierre Vidal-Naquet, that declaration concluded: “It must not be asked how, technically, such a mass-murder was possible. It was technically possible, since it happened” (Le Monde, February 21, 1979, p. 23).
Remark: if thirty-four historians have found themselves unable to explain how a crime of this dimension was perpetrated, why should anyone not have the right to question the very reality of that crime?


The list goes on and on.
There are also alot of cases of hypocracy perpetrated by Israel such as the case of Solomon Morel.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by fapython
 


Zuendl is a well known nazi. He agreed to make a documentary about him called "Beruf: Neonazi" in Engl"Occupation: Neo Nazi". So no question about it. The other fact that troubles me with the so called history revisionism is on the one hand they denie the holocaust happend but behind closed doors they are proud of it.



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