independence day 2009 - revolution!, page 1

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Topic started on 17-6-2009 @ 09:21 AM by dannyfal

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 09:54 AM by network dude

the problem is less than 10% of America even knows they are loosing their rights. I would wager it is the part of the population that watches a bunch of TV. The only way to get any sort of resolution to our current problem is to inform people of the problems that exist without sounding like a conspiracy wack job. (I am one, so don't blame me for that comment) TV commercials with real facts about what is happening. Telling people things like 90% of us did not want any bailouts, but they still happened. Why? I didn't vote for them. Nobody will bail me out.

Unfortunately I have no money so I can't afford a TV commercial, and I am also not smart enough to get these points across. I do know some who are. If we can find a financier to put these things together, there might be a chance.

I think I just got bumped up on the list. (bad boy list)

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:24 AM by dannyfal

i don't think tv is the appropriate medium... i think ATS forum where all the wackjobs are located is the best place to round people up. u think u can just go puttin out anti american commercials on tv? not in this nazi state

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:31 AM by network dude

reply to post by dannyfal

the problem is there are only a limited number of us whack jobs from the US here. We wouldn't even make a dent. Inform first, then take action. The action needs to be diplomatic first as with any endeavor. (IMHO) But the people who have no idea need to know the real deal.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:36 AM by serendipitynow

I've been pointing the Iran protest comparison to our country, where it is supposedly our right to speak out against what we want to change to many people lately. Just compare what is going on in Iran and how the people are reacting, regardless of consequences to the US and how we do nothing. It is truly bewildering to me.

There was one man who came screaming into the camera shouting "They tampered our election!!!"

Do you think ABC would allow a citizen that in the US?

I get the same response from everyone. "Yeah, but we know if we do that we will probably get killed or thrown in prison."
Many people, regardless of what they believe in, are just too complacent or frightened to risk anything. They would rather just go with the flow and deal with whatever they are handed, even if it is against what they believe and know, than risk being hurt, killed, or imprisoned.

They know they are losing their rights. Some even care. But not enough to risk their lives or go to prison, no matter how bad it gets.

Heck, last month I actually saw a group of about 20 well-dressed people in business suits peacefully marching along the empty sidewalk, sign in hand, in front of BOA. And I was pleased to see this! 5 mins. later, the cops showed up and made them stop.

The authorities either make them disperse, they allow it and make it look like the people are a bunch of extremist loons, or they set it up to look like it is an illegal activity and arrest people on trumped up charges.

The people just need to start standing up for what they want and believe in. Peacefully, in a civil manner, legally. They need to get rid of the silly group name and just start asserting their rights. That is how this country was set up to run.

No one feels like they have any power in any aspect of their life. Right down to the products they buy. They aren't even strong enough to say "NO" to the products the buy even though they aren't what they want. Fuel prices skyrocket - there was a time when protesting meant that the people just wouldn't pay those prices and go without. The American people aren't even strong enough to do that! They will pay whatever outrageous prices are charged and be thankful that they live in America and have so much freedom.
So, how is anyone going to change such a wide-spread mind-set???
Even if you had the amount of money they charge to run ads on a major network, you've gotta know that whatever ad you wanted to run would not be allowed due to breaking some sort of rule or guideline. You would have to have just as much money as the PTB to play with to get your message aired, and then I imagine there would be someone paying more to make sure it didn't.
You could probably do it on some of the smaller local stations. But really, how many people watch those stations? They air stuff like that all of the time on the local public access stations on various cable systems. How many people actually watch those stations?

Maybe a newspaper ad - done properly? And even then, you would probably run into opposition trying to get it published.

You could print up a mass-mailing. Again, it would have to be done properly. It definitely would be less expensive than the other options.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:49 AM by BetweenMyths

I came across this a few months ago. Don't know how organised/advanced it's become.
www.indymedia.org.uk...

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:55 AM by dariousg

Problem is, you have done what everyone else speaking of revolution has done. Simply said, "Let's DO IT!" without providing any logical means. What your method will ensure is a lot of arrests or beatings happening.

A revolution is done with movements and organized groups. Not randomly running around demanding your rights. What you will find is that your rights will be presented to you. The right to stay in a prison as the cost of us tax payers or in a mental institution at the same expense.

Come up with a plan. Post it. If it sounds like it would work then you may actually get some people to listen. Then it's a ton of work from there.

I don't think that 99% of the people that start links like this honestly think it through. The Iran protests won't amount to anything. Why? Because it is just people walking around and getting killed. It will die out because there is no organization. No plan.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 11:15 AM by dannyfal

Originally posted by serendipitynow

I get the same response from everyone. "Yeah, but we know if we do that we will probably get killed or thrown in prison."
Many people, regardless of what they believe in, are just too complacent or frightened to risk anything. They would rather just go with the flow and deal with whatever they are handed, even if it is against what they believe and know, than risk being hurt, killed, or imprisoned.

Couldn't agree more... i think its gotten to the point that nothing will work other than non peaceful means. i am not an advocate of violence so there is no ideal way to revolt if you ask me. i think passing out flyers and putting up banners is not a very effective way to do anyhting. and i think if you just inform people of whats going on its not gonna make a difference because lots of people know and still dont do anything.

if we all hit the streets on july 04, 2009 it will be beautiful. its just a fantasy of mine. i dunno i know there are other people out there like me that simply do not want to continue living like this. this is not living. not by any means.

i'm still waiting on somebody as crazy as me to be like hell yeah lets do this thing

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:02 PM by Soldat401

For anyone here to be comparing their life in the US to the struggles that Iranians are going through right now is an insult to them. They are rebeling against an oppressive theocracy who has just held a fraudulent election. The people in Iran who are now protesting are an obvious majority. (And even if it turns out that there is some sort of CIA involvment helping behind the scenes, is that a bad thing? It is still the will of the majority in that country.)

Does anyone living in the US honestly feel like they live in a Nazi state? The people on this site who believe that are a very small minority in America. I don't agree with every move the government has made recently, but it's gotten to the point in this forum where ANY decision the government makes has to hide some larger NWO/Antichrist/Repltilian conspiracy.

It's getting ridiculous, and it's the reason why nobody takes conspiracy theorists seriously. Sometimes things really are what they seem.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:07 PM by Soldat401

I just wanted to add one more thing.

I think there's a good chance that the way the US is heading, a revolution may be necessary someday, but we're not there yet. For anyone to seriously be thinking this way right now is just dangerous and crazy. You'd only serve have yourselves further demonized in the media, which would really just serve the government's agenda of labeling you as terrorists.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Soldat401]

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:33 PM by dannyfal

Originally posted by Soldat401
For anyone here to be comparing their life in the US to the struggles that Iranians are going through right now is an insult to them. They are rebeling against an oppressive theocracy who has just held a fraudulent election.

Soldat... you make many good points. But you just said "They are rebeling against an oppressive theocracy who has just held a fraudulent election. " Does that not ring a bell to you? My point was we should've revolted when we learned that Bush's election was a fraud. This is not a democracy and it would be appreciated if the government stopped throwing that word around. We may not live in a theocrazy (whoa subconcious typo?) like Iran but we definately live in a Christian country with christian values. We are not as different from Iran as you'd think. I myself am an Iranian and have been there twice. I hope that brings a little bit credibility to what i am saying, then again i am only speaking of my opinions.

I like how you post again that we should have a revolution later... lol. If you know things are gonna get worst why would you wait til it got to that point? Freedom is a very subjective term and that is what the government fails to notice when they throw statements into their documents such as "pursuit of happiness"

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:41 PM by Soldat401

reply to post by dannyfal

You did make a good point about Bush's election, and I think that was a fraud as well. The problem is that it was such a tight race, that it wasn't as if Gore had won with 60% of the vote and denied the presidency.

The American people also had no idea what Bush was capable of doing to this country in 2000, and unfortunately in 2004, John Kerry was just a horrible second choice.

I like how you post again that we should have a revolution later... lol. If you know things are gonna get worst why would you wait til it got to that point? Freedom is a very subjective term and that is what the government fails to notice when they throw statements into their documents such as "pursuit of happiness"

Edit added: Because there is not a sizable amount of the population that thinks a revolution is necessary. Things have not really gotten bad enough in this country yet(and I hope they don't) to warrant a revolution.

Protesting is one thing, which I certainly endorse, but to be talking about revolution implies something else entirely. For now, we need to work within the system, by protesting injustice, and supporting like-minded individuals who chose to run for elected office.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Soldat401]

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Soldat401]

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:44 PM by dannyfal

reply to post by Soldat401

A rigged election is a rigged election though... that is spitting on the American flag and raping the idea of democracy. If that isn't enough to get people to come together and do something then I don't know what is

reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 11:42 AM by serendipitynow

reply to post by dannyfal

Personally, I'd like to see the American people wake up and use what rights we have left, and speak up to our government. I'm not talking a revolution, or even protesting-though protesting could be helpful. I'm talking about using their rights to address the government legally and respectfully, demanding they be heard. Some do so now, but they are few and far between. Government officials attempt to, and they do so to empty rooms and they just get brushed aside.

If ENOUGH people come forth and approach their government, using legal means, to demand that their rights be respected and their voices heard, there is a chance that someone will have to listen.

But it hasn't and won't work if just a few concerned citizens and politicians who aren't playing the game are the only ones.

Just like anything else in the legal system, there is a procedure to follow.

We need a large amount of American citizens to request a hearing. So many that they will be lined up down the street.

I just don't see this happening. People won't even question unethical/illegal business practices that they personally are victim to - they just pay the money and give away their personal freedom and power. Even if the business is doing something illegal. Because...what if...they shut off my cable and I can't ever get cable again...or...what if they raise my rates even more...what if they cancel my card and I can't get another one???

That and it is a lot of work...a lot of thinking things through...and most people don't put that kind of energy into anything these days.

Anyways, that is what I'd like to see happen - the American people standing up and speaking up for their rights - making their voices heard, using the legal methods outlined for us by our Government/legal system.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 11:32 AM by dannyfal

reply to post by serendipitynow

isn't the legal system part of the problem?

i truthfully believe that things HAVE gotten bad enough for us to revolt. the whole point of government has been taken and twisted into whatever they want it to be.

i think the original ideas of taxes was that we pay the government and in return we get services in return. problems arise when the government doesn't ask us what they do with our money. its like if you are born a US citizen, you have no choice but to pay for the wars, pay for the highways, pay for the crooked cops... when none of us citizens actually agreed to any of these things.

i don't understand how the tax system is legal. i've heard some people say that the tax system is in fact illegal but i don't think that would ever hold up in any court.

how bad does it have to get if we need to revolt? do we have to wait for people to get killed? because the government has been doing that for years? do we have to wait for our rights to be stolen? been there done that. i'm not really sure what exactly we are waiting for to happen.

reply posted on 22-6-2009 @ 10:58 AM by serendipitynow

reply to post by dannyfal

The legal system worked much better when it was the justice system.

I understand all that you are saying, but realistically, the system is set up for the people to step up and have their say. It is tougher now because of the Corporations. But the procedures are still there, and it is a matter of having enough people to follow the procedures to the letter, just like any other court procedure. One mistake and it gets thrown out.

I haven't seen very many people put forth any effort at all to have their voices heard in that manner. It takes a lot more than a phone call, letter or email to your Senator. It takes a lot more effort than signing a petition that is never presented according to the law. I have seen even fewer stop funding the Corporations that control all we do. People won't stop buying on credit, people won't stop buying fuel at astronomical prices, though they "can't afford" to go off the grid or even green. They won't stop being glued to their televisions. They have to have the newest cellphone every month. They still eat the garbage they sell to us. Their services get huge rate increases and instead of cancelling they just pay it. The people are too complacent for anything to change, and the ones who aren't are just "waiting for the revolution". Those are the ones who are willing to go down fighting for what they supposedly believe in, but they aren't willing to do the legwork/paperwork to avoid a revolution to begin with, and maybe even get what they want in the process. After writing this, I'm wondering if it even has anything to do with what they believe in, and not more that they are just waiting to do battle with anyone who comes and tries to take what is theirs.

A revolution could probably be avoided if enough people stood up and followed the guidelines set up for us to change things. And nobody can be bothered.

Yeah, we all know how the tax system works. Yes, supposedly it is illegal to begin with. I don't believe that anyone has ever taken it to court and won, though. The few cases I've looked into appear to, again, not have followed the set guidelines for appealing such matters.

Another example...I know people who have gotten huge tax increases or missed out on refunds because of a little extra paper-work that they can't be bothered with. I also know people who have similar experiences using corporate tax preparation companies, and even when you show them the tax law, they won't follow through because so-and-so Block knows what they are doing. Yes they do! The people are conditioned to be taken care of. They don't have to think. They don't have to question. They don't have to do any paperwork or research. They just pay the bills and all is well, no matter what happens.

And I have no idea how to change that. I don't think even a revolution would change that. If that ever happened, I think most of the sheep would just believe whatever the msm told them and go about their bill paying until something happened to stop them. Then they'd let whoever step in and take care of them.

During the American Revolution, the people STOPPED paying taxes, and STOPPED buying goods that were heavily taxed. That is just ONE way to have your voice heard. The problem is that MANY voices need to be heard, and they just aren't talking. Which, basically means that they are talking and supporting what is happening.

reply posted on 22-6-2009 @ 11:52 AM by Darthorious

Originally posted by dariousg
The Iran protests won't amount to anything. Why? Because it is just people walking around and getting killed. It will die out because there is no organization. No plan.

Well Actually there's an Iranian that would debate that assuming it's not just some type of propaganda or set up by the US to invade which it very well could be as I have a hard time believing some school kid on the street knows what should be done sanction wise to their leaders.

Link

But have to agree with the fact the US would have to have an organized movement starting diplomatically.

reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 10:26 AM by dannyfal

so no ones hittin the streets with me huh...

reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 10:34 AM by warrenb

reply to post by dannyfal

something is coming down the pipes

cross your fingers it end sup in the "people's" favor and not that of those who rule

the propaganda that will be coming will overwhelm most