While I understand the obvious inability of some to think the unthinkable, nor even to consider the obvious implications of the growing evidence of the inevitable, the time is far past for catering to the delicate sensibilities of the squeamish proponents of the status quo; no matter their wishful thinking and verbal assaults on those who rock the boat of a peace filled illusion, the day of reckoning for America has arrived. There will not be another year pass from the date of this thread’s post before we will be locked in a life and death struggle with the New World Order for the national destiny and sovereignty of the United States.

While there are many who believe there are no plans for the conduct of the coming struggle, they and the ones who believe this will be a ‘French Style’ Revolution are equally wrong. So are the ones who protest the inability of the Patriots to over come high tech weapons and that any patriotic forces will face the full fury of the armed forces of this nation. Thus, for free speech informational purposes only, I intend to deal with many such topics in this thread, as those who would struggle for freedom need to be informed to be prepared.

I cannot take credit for the concept of this thread, as it belongs to my fellow SF soldier and friend ‘dooper’, well known on ATS for his expertise on all issues military and reasoned intellect. After an evening of soldier’s ‘old home week’ conversation, he suggested I author this thread to answer the very question posed in the title: “Then what?”

As some of the more astute may have noticed, my thread posting has been leading to a logical conclusion; there is a method to my madness, and a point that I am attempting to make. This thread is next in the sequential post in this series; and yes, to the moderators previewing this thread, I intend to get down in the dirt with educating those who would resist the tyranny of the NWO; the site owners can disavow me and throw me to the wolves, as it were, of the alphabet agencies if needed, as I know them and they certainly know me, and I have long prepared for our struggle part two. If this be rebellion, I intend to make the best of it.

Now, there of course there are some who wonder at the pretense of my sweeping assertions, goggling this thread as if I was protesting the arrival of the mother ship with Scotty ready to beam us up, I in refutation, present the following facts for your consideration:

1. With the failure of the Supreme Court to even review the Chrysler ‘arranged’ bankruptcy allowing Obama’s payoff to Union backers, private property rights, due process rights and contractual right guaranties are now finished under our current government.

2. Honorably discharged veterans, Constitutional rights proponents, Christians, third political party members (including ‘independents’) and militia members are now ‘enemies of the state’ as potential terrorist.

3. After protesting and refusing to release the ‘torture photographs’ as dangerous and having the potential of costing retaliatory strikes on American troops, President Obama quietly removed the photo release prohibition clause out of the ‘Continued Funding Resolution’ of American ground warfare operations to gain liberal democratic support for his 100 billion bail out of the foreign credit market under the IMF; for the first time valuing the blood of American men and women service personnel as of less concern then the United Nation’s New World Order operations. This is outright treason.

4. President Obama is quietly carrying the destruction of the American nuclear deterrent arsenal without Congressional approval or oversight, proceeding with unilateral disarmament and cutting off of our missile defense shield funding in the face of increased nuclear threats across the world. This is again treason.

5. Continued the unconstitutional decree of ‘prolonged detention’ with the suspension of ‘Habeas Corpus’ and the rights of due process and evidence procedural rights.

6. The creation of ‘Czars’ that circumvent the separation of powers clause and Congressional oversight, having started the institution of a fascist take over of our government.

With these examples of outright treason and total disregard of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, those of us who took the oath to support and defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights have only two choices: 1.) To remain mute and inactive, thereby being guilty of being the worst type of traitors and enablers of the enslavement of our nation and people. 2.) Remember our oath and take the stand of the men who faced the British on the Lexington Green.

We have no other choices as due process under the Constitution is now finished; we fight or kneel as slaves, there is no redress or middle ground; our appeal is to the God of heaven to remember those documents under which He granted us liberty, which gave us the right to throw off such government as which currently afflicts us.

To wit, the coming struggle will start at the end of September or into November with another ‘Black Flag op’ as to include or be the rapid collapse of the economy of the United States. Thereby granting the cover of reasonable authority to declare martial law in the midst of the resultant confusion and break down of social order. Region by region order will be enforced by United Nation Troops with the main purpose being the collection of firearms. For this reason, FEMA response will be slow, allowing roving gangs to rape, pillage, and plunder before the cities will be surrounded and ‘demilitarized’.

With the State controlled media portraying the disarming of the law bidding citizens as for their own good, any who resist will be demonized. Those who are rounded up or who come looking for help will be detained at FEMA Centers. While all of this is going on, the American version of the ‘Night of the Long Knives’ will be being conducted to round up known dissidents; application of irresistible force will be normal during this phase.

Those who were forewarned and heeded such will have evacuated the cities at the first signs of the collapse to areas with prepositioned supplies; such will have a rural ‘safe’ site to evacuate to. Their FIRST activities will be to secure their area; having at least three routes of covered escape and defensible positions along each mapped. The better prepared will have acquired The Anarchist Cookbook off the internet or from Paladin Press to learn how to make thermite and binary explosives for anti-armored vehicle defense, and prepared accordingly.

This includes dense overhead and sideways coverage from trees as cover from thermal sites. Best to also have limited viable vehicle entrances. Mountainous national park areas off the beaten path are adequate for those with no other options. The key being PREPLANNING.

Now, I open this thread up to others with ideas as to how, where and what is best. Please keep in mind this thread is for discussions as to how and what should be done when the SHTF at first, and NOT if it will.

[edit on 6/17/2009 by SGTChas]

If all that has passed does not open the eyes of the members that frequent the deep passages of conspirators, how can we?

I think your signature, "Dark Night Coming..." says it all really. You're not offering solutions, just inciting violence based on a subjective view that it's inevitable.

If things continue down the road they are in the only real solution is to go beyond government and military, not fight it. With the internet, with mass communication, with the information age the people of the nation have the power to stop government cold. Just stop paying taxes altogether, for example. If more than half of the population and corporations do this, which is an achievable goal, government will be paralised. Audit the FED, and if they, government or FED, refuse, make that refusal known. Civil disobedience. Keep talking, people are listening.

Another violent revolution will just continue the cycles of tyranny and opression, replacing one group of psychos with another. Break the cycle. Eat out the system from within. Find the others. Most people are unhappy, network with them. Otherwise you'll just find yourself shooting at family and firends, and that serves the elitist agenda fine. I'll leave you with a Rothschild quote, that has been popularised in cinema by Jodie Foster:

"When you see blood on the street, buy".

You're not saving the USA, you're putting it right where the elitist want it. I know it's an effort to ignore your testosterone, but give your brain a chance before you go all gung ho and things are done that cannot be undone.

You can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that got you into it. The solution for conflict is always peace, not more war, something you and you're supposed intelectual friend dooper, either fail to realise or try to fight.

I concur. It's about to be on. I note with dismay the ever accelerating march towards centralization and control, as well as the governmental deaf ear turned to the aggrieved. It's so out in the open and in your face now, that I don't see how any can miss it, but they do. Willful ignorance is the only explanation I can find.

Indeed, the cities will be death traps, urban free fire zones where none can be trusted, every man against every other. It matters not if they wear a SWAT uniform or gang colors, one has to assume that they will ALL be after the defenseless. Just because you see a cop shoot a gangsta, or vice versa, doesn't mean they won't shoot YOU too. There truly are some GOOD cops out there. I'm not betting my life that the next one I meet is one of them.

Rural retreat for eventual regrouping is the only viable option. Pre-positioned supplies are a must, since rural locals won't view kindly a sudden influx of outsiders, particularly so if said outsiders are planning to live off the locals. They won't live at all.

I might add that Kurt Saxon's "Weaponeer" series, in 3 volumes which include "The Poor Man's James Bond" are also valuable as source material for gadgeteers, but take care, as some of the formulas must be taken with a grain of salt, and others are downright dangerous, even to the manufacturers. As has been said, "A LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing". Mr Saxon also authored a "Survivor" series, which has a lot of valuable non-weapon related information on the more primitive side of living.

Overhead and side-looking cover can also be provided by caves, cliffs, rock-shelters, and overhangs, the downside of which is they tend to limit your mobility (hard to carry one with you). Mylar "rescue" blankets will assist in covering the heat signatures of individuals from thermal imaging. The down side is they show up on radar.

Just as airplanes use flares to defeat heat-seeking missiles, other things can be used to provide too many returns to opposition equipment, thus greatly increasing the signatures they have to check out, which buys one time to be elsewhere whenever they get around to checking where you were to begin with.

Starlight scopes, and other night vision devices of the light amplification variety are best defeated by using inclement weather, such as fog and rain. They only see what the eye sees, but in lower light levels. Anything that hides one from a pair of organic eyes will defeat NVDs.

Always keep in mind the deer hunter's and sniper's trick of hiding ABOVE your opposition. Deer, and people, rarely ever look up. That works both ways, so make sure you keep your eyes on YOUR overhead too. The bad guys might be there instead of you being there.

A little noise, or a little light, goes a long way, especially at night. Make sure you don't rattle when you walk, and keep fires, including cigarettes, to a minimum, like ZERO. A cold can of pork-and-beans beats a bullet in the head while eating a hot one, every time.

'Cover' and 'concealment' are two entirely different things. Of the two, concealment is a lot easier to find in a hurry. Cover protects you from bullets, concealment only protects you from having the opposition know where to put the bullets.

There's lots more to know, and just a little time to learn. The military and ex-military among us, particularly the SF and SpecOps types, already know these things I've mentioned, and a whole lot more. I wrote what I did mostly as an introduction to those poor souls who are soon going to find themselves in the unenviable position of not having a clue what to do, and yet decide they still want to live. I'll try and drop a little more of my pitiful smattering of knowledge in as we go along. Don't get huffy if I drop in an opinion or two here and there as well.

The main thing to know at this point is GET THE HECK OUT OF THE CITIES, and make some rural friends while you still can.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by Mindmelding
I think your signature, "Dark Night Coming..." says it all really. You're not offering solutions, just inciting violence based on a subjective view that it's inevitable.

If you think it isn't inevitable, it's probably best if you stay in the cities.

If things continue down the road they are in the only real solution is to go beyond government and military, not fight it. With the internet, with mass communication, with the information age the people of the nation have the power to stop government cold. Just stop paying taxes altogether, for example. If more than half of the population and corporations do this, which is an achievable goal, government will be paralised. Audit the FED, and if they, government or FED, refuse, make that refusal known. Civil disobedience. Keep talking, people are listening.

Let me know how having all that knowledge and information works out for you when a UN bullet is headed for your thinker. Ditto with 'spreading the word' on their abuses via all your vast technological comms systems. I hear you can tie two tin cans together with a piece of string when they cut your power off. Stop paying taxes to paralyze them. Go ahead, DO IT! How long do you think it will be before they just print up some more money for themselves? Go ahead and audit the FED. Get back to me when you have some results to show. Ditto on the results when they refuse, and you 'make that refusal known'. Let me know how many folks with enough power to do it your way care. who's listening? you said 'people' are. WHO?

Another violent revolution will just continue the cycles of tyranny and opression, replacing one group of psychos with another. Break the cycle. Eat out the system from within. Find the others. Most people are unhappy, network with them. Otherwise you'll just find yourself shooting at family and firends, and that serves the elitist agenda fine. I'll leave you with a Rothschild quote, that has been popularised in cinema by Jodie Foster:

"When you see blood on the street, buy".

Best to be in the winning bunch of psychos then. I AM networking with people. Just not the kind that are gonna try to whine to the government when the government kicks their door in at 4 am. If you think that'll work, I look forward to your progress reports. I promise you I won't be shooting at family or friends. All of those I have are smart enough to stay behind me, and just hand ammo forward. They won't be getting in my sights.

YOU buy when you see blood in the streets, I'll be too busy trying to make sure it ain't MY blood, or that of my friends or family.

You're not saving the USA, you're putting it right where the elitist want it. I know it's an effort to ignore your testosterone, but give your brain a chance before you go all gung ho and things are done that cannot be undone.

You can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that got you into it. The solution for conflict is always peace, not more war, something you and you're supposed intelectual friend dooper, either fail to realise or try to fight.

Have you looked around lately? The country is ALREADY where the elitists want it! This is NOT the 'same level of thinking' that got us in this problem. A combination of a LACK of thinking, a LACK of caring, and a LACK of action is what got us here.

The RESULT of conflict is peace, not the solution. When one views it as the SOLUTION, the implication is that individual is prepared to gain peace at any price, including the compromise of his own honor and dignity, and that of his children and grandchildren, to buy 'peace'. Any warrior knows that, and few who aren't warriors ever realize it. The PRIZE is peace, that's why warriors go to war. On the terms you dictate, there is no peace in the individual soul which has been sold out, so how can there be peace at all?

That's only an illusion of peace. I want none of it. I want my concerns and grievances to be addressed, one way or the other. Sure, I'd prefer peacefully, but I'm old enough to know that there are folks around who simply won't allow that. If they keep blowing it off as they have been, then they get what they get. People will only put up with so much.

Great thread, with excellent suggestions! The biggest thing I would add, would also be the simplest IMHO. Water.

Make sure you have an adequet and viable water source. Your body can function without food a LOT longer than without clean water. Think about procuring a RO filter for when you're on the move. I heard the Katydins are pretty good, and at least that's a starting point on google.

I'll add whatever else I think would be elementary as I come up with it, but so far I've seen great stuff.

As for books, there's a great survival list in Heinlein's "Farnham's Freehold". It's a bit antiquated, and admittedly isn't the best for a static group, but you'll get the point. It's also a great survival story with a fantastic sci fi and moral twist. Lighter reading than the aforementioned books from Sarge and Nenothtu.

I also recommend the "Foxfire" books. Look them up. There's no better primer for country living.

Enjoy!

Denying ignorance has huge potential ramifications for the average person. Being in a state of ignorance and denial may well cost you in the long run, a price you may pay with your life and lives of your family.

If you choose to entertain the possibility that there is a potential for armed revolt then you would have concluded that the political/economic system we currently labor under has overcome personal rights and privileges expected by citizens of the United States of America.

If you choose to entertain the possibility that there is potential to circumvent an armed revolt then you would have concluded that the political/economic system we currently labor under can still be overcome with peaceful, docile, means through the art of diplomacy.

Either way, we are in for a change. I hope this change occurs without violence and terror. The problem as I see it right at the moment is that people just don't know what to expect and therefore, cannot entertain the possibility that life as we know it will no longer exist. Life will become something else entirely, dependant upon the events that are now and soon will be unravelling.

Yesterday, I had the fortune to actually discuss these matters with real live people - face-to-face. I was stunned by the fact that my being interested in the "behind the scenes" details of current events was shared by several other people. Clandestinely researching by any and all means available, these people share the view that "something is very wrong".

Then later another stranger just walked over to our table (outdoor tavern) and announced that he lost his job today. The company was taken over 3 years ago, the business model changed and then the stock market crash wound up closing the business. It was computer monitors. Then he went on to speak of The Federal Reserve and its heinous, insidious beginnings. He went on an on. You know the drill by now.

So, yes things are ramping up and people are preparing the best they can. I finally received the sign I've been waiting for. My view is shared in secret by more than I had ever imagined. But what to do?

Act first, offensive action puts you in the driver's seat, so to speak. However, timing is everything. It's a very tricky situation. If you make the first move at the wrong time, everyting you've planned and prepared for will be for naught. If you wait too long to react, you will have drastically decreased your chances for survival and escape.

By the time things have reached critical mass, there will be so much confusion and terror that will make spontaneous escape impossible. Forget about leaving town in your car! You won't make it 10 blocks unless you are a loner, travelling at night on foot.

Remember, SILENCE will save your life when facing an enemy threat. Train ahead of time with sign language so that you can communicate without giving away your position. If you decide that digging in is the best plan, then get your supplies together now! Get them and have them ready to go.

I hope I'm like the majority of people in thinking that this potential can be circumvented. Yet, I'm a realist. I see the writing on the wall and know that once critical mass has been reached the explosion will affect everyone, good and bad. The effects of the explosion for those that live through it will further cull the crowd of the weak and injured.

If one continues on this line of thought for long it gets very depressing. But depressing or not, assuming the attitude of Just In Case is far superior to SOL!

Originally posted by nenothtu
The RESULT of conflict is peace, not the solution. When one views it as the SOLUTION, the implication is that individual is prepared to gain peace at any price, including the compromise of his own honor and dignity, and that of his children and grandchildren, to buy 'peace'. Any warrior knows that, and few who aren't warriors ever realize it. The PRIZE is peace, that's why warriors go to war. On the terms you dictate, there is no peace in the individual soul which has been sold out, so how can there be peace at all?

This statement speaks volumes. Fills libraries even. And yet here it sits entombed in a vast entanglement of thoughts on a website somewhere.

Peace has been granted in advance to government. When really, peace is something that must be EARNED by a government, daily. In thoughts, deeds, motives, agendas, and most importantly- ACTION. At least in this government. For so states our constitution. And we the people are given the RIGHT to abolish it when it no longer serves our needs.

abolish

1 : to end the observance or effect of : annul 2 : destroy

Now when the founding fathers chose that word, abolish, one would have to infer that they fully knew what that word meant. For if the first definition is not effective, then the second definition surely would be.

And the bottom line is that the current shadow government has done everything BUT address the real needs of its people in the US. The CIA is out of control. Totally. And it is one of the key reasons we are in the global mess that we find ourselves in. If it was just that, then maybe peaceful reform would be in order- and that would be on a good day- considering the outright murder those three letters represent.

But then there's the FBI, the NSA, NASA, DHS, FEMA, the Fed, and many others that also represent the antithesis of open, transparent government- with the needs of its people first and foremost in mind. And if it were just just those- then maybe peaceful reform would be in order.

The problem is, peaceful reform at this point is more of a pipe dream than violent revolution. Because look at what the American people are up against. A justice system that doesn't work, is corrupt at its top, and one that silently rewards those loyal to the pagan throne. Investigations are mere public appeasements, and have no teeth anymore.

Case in point: the 9/11 Commission, which had to make special agreements with the Bush administration on what could and could not be prosecuted. So much so, in fact, that the Commission had to agree to special administration "minders" who would be present for everything, and could immediately object to any witness testimony and other things that got anywhere near implicating the real culprits. The administration covered their asses first, and said "here, have a bone with the rest." Of COURSE they were set up to fail- thanks Hamilton/Kean- yes we kinda already knew that.

Lobbyists, banks, and corporate interest run this country. People are no longer the employers, but rather have become slaves to greed, corruption, murder, plunder, insane taxation, and ridiculous laws so complicated it takes hiring $500/hour lawyers to make any sense of anything. And sense that invariably favors the system, not the people. In fact, so insidious is this "system" that corruption infects the very prison system itself- providing incentives to keep them overfilled bursting at the seams. Is this the way to govern people? Maybe, if you're a Nazi.

Whatever the case, there is no question in my mind that the time is upon the American people to act with the powers granted to them by the Constitution. The time for negotiations is over- there has been ample chance given for that. What we have here is the classic case of DEAF EARS. I will not be made to feel guilty with some notion that peaceful reform is all that we have left. We tried that. Didn't work. With all the Ron Pauls, Cynthia McKinneys, and everyone else screaming at the top of their lungs, it DID NOT WORK. They continue to murder, steal and tax us into oblivion. Not to mention start foreign wars we have no business being in.

So what else is there left? I want you pacifists to please tell me. And this is coming from a natural pacifist, mind you. I hate war and conflict. I love (good) people, nature and good times.

To try and answer the OP question of "then what?," all I can say is this: at this time it's a pointless question. Because the task at hand is so monumental, the logical answer could only be "We'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it." Fortunately for us, we already have a guiding light in a document written 200 years ago. To me the answer is simple. Reinstate it from top to bottom. Through and through. No exceptions.

We are one day going to have to push the big, red, deadly, ominous reset button that will shed the blood of both patriots and tyrants. So prepare your networks silently. And be extremely aware of infiltrators.

Sarge You are right. No one in their right mind should live in an urban environment, unless they are fully skilled in that type of miltaristic lifestyle. It certainly will not be a place for those with families. I made sure me and mine left that scenario a few years back. We aren't truly rural but are far enough out that going farther will not be an issue.

Stocking up will not be enough. How are you going to move all those supplies, along with your family, when the opposing forces are bearing down on you? Can your family move with stealth? Howabout health care? I had to make some really unpleasant plans due to medicinal needs of certain people I would rather have with me.

Life as we are used to it will cease to exist. We will live a simpler plainer life. Those that are preparing need to avail themselves of the knowledge it will take to survive. It will be more than the primitive lifestyle movement, or the preparedness stockpiler to thrive. Tactical, trapping, medical, agricultural, political, and more skills will be needed.

The black market will thrive. Everything from guns to food will be traded bought and sold all without the need for cash. It is already a bigger economy than many think. Networking will be a key but must be done with caution.

There are those here that think it can be accomplished peacefully. I think that they need to relearn their history. It just isn't going to happen. Sure, quit paying taxes. How? Taxes are withheld from your payroll. Do you think those you work for will go along with not withholding. The PTB have gotten you by the short hairs and you don't even know it yet. To many people now rely on the government for their existence, people will be too reluctant to give that up. Are you in debt? Are you on medication? Retired disabled etc. and drawing S.S. Are your children in school? There are too many ways the PTB are controlling the lifestyle of Americans. Cut the strings.

It looks like it will not end peacefully, but one can always hope. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. The question is are you prepared?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

For those of you who speak of timing... I believe Thomas Jefferson gave us the exact and precise timing...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

When they try to take your second amendment away is the time for action; because if that happens you will lose the means by which to defend the rest of the constitution.



[edit on 17-6-2009 by Anonymous Avatar]