Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

There still seems to be several arguments being discussed at the same time.
I have never said being gay is right or wrong.
That is a personal choice that I am not arguing.

My argument is the facts are:
1. humans are not animals.
2.gays are not natural or normal.

The facts are there are many things that set humans apart from animals
though humans can ACT like animals at times does not make us animals.
The fact is animals can think and reason but not on the same level as humans. The fact is animals have feelings and emotions which are controlled through their instincts not logic.

reply to post by OLD HIPPIE DUDE


:-)

My argument is the facts are:
1. humans are not animals.
2.gays are not natural or normal.

and I'm still saying - humans are animals

and gays are natural and normal

Originally posted by OLD HIPPIE DUDE
The facts are there are many things that set humans apart from animals

There are likewise many simularities between man and animal. Splitting hairs here.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPIE DUDE
though humans can ACT like animals at times does not make us animals.

We have evolved from being animals, thats why we exhibit animal behaviour from time to time.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPIE DUDE
The fact is animals can think and reason but not on the same level as humans. The fact is animals have feelings and emotions which are controlled through their instincts not logic.

So are you asserting man always had the same level of intelligence? Have you never heard of instances where people have reacted on instinct without thinking? Thats our animal roots coming through in a moments of extreme stress or distress.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


yet you offer no facts to your argument

reply to post by OLD HIPPIE DUDE

:-)

yet you offer no facts to your argument

ditto

(actually - I have - several references just back a couple of posts)

if you read them you might be able to see that we all share many of the same things - in fact - we share mostly all the same things - us - and the "animals"

the different components of our shared biology pretty much prove - we is all critters

just some of us are smarter critters than others - but even that could just be a matter of opinion - or perspective


[edit on 6/26/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

deleted

[edit on 26-6-2009 by FreeSpeaker]

Cherry picking the facts does not prove you right.
Ignoring the facts I presented or totally dismissing them without discussing them also does not make you right.
The fact is there is no solid proof that man is an animal .
An opinion is not a fact.
The "natural" fact is it takes a male and a female to procreate and the "normal" result is the birth of a child.
Any further discussion on this thread is moot, and is only to justify gay behavior in their own minds and force acceptance from the rest of society.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your choices,actions
and beliefs, (as long as you don't hurt anyone or destroy anything), doesn't mean they don't accept you as a person.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


You can speak for yourself, as for me I know I did not evolve from an animal.

If the male animals who try to have sex with anothe male animal had the mental power and reasoning to understand that said sex will not produce an offspring, they would immediately lose interest.

reply to post by OLD HIPPIE DUDE

Cherry picking the facts does not prove you right.

LOL right now Hippie - dude - nothing is going to prove that either one of us is right

so, which facts were cherry picked exactly?

Ignoring the facts I presented or totally dismissing them without discussing them also does not make you right.

and what are these facts of which you speak? Dogs have no soul? Animals eat their young? Inbreeding has existed since the dawn of time?

The fact is there is no solid proof that man is an animal .

if we weren't animals, all the animal studies ever done to help figure out what's up with us - would be meaningless

An opinion is not a fact.

no getting around that one

The "natural" fact is it takes a male and a female to procreate and the "normal" result is the birth of a child.

again - no point arguing with you there - the normal result of male female procreation would be a child

what it does mean is that male/male or female/female attempts - are pretty likely NOT going to result in a child

:-)

still doesn't mean homosexuality isn't normal - all it means is don't expect the pitter-patter of happy little feet

Any further discussion on this thread is moot, and is only to justify gay behavior in their own minds and force acceptance from the rest of society.

says you

and by the way - I personally wouldn't force acceptance from anybody - even if I could

but - I will positively NOT shut up about it until everybody within earshot has at least thought about it all real good and hard

and then thought about it again

I got a real big mouth - and time to kill - and there is nothing to be lost by trying to get people to at least tolerate each other a little bit more

Just because someone doesn't agree with your choices,actions and beliefs, (as long as you don't hurt anyone or destroy anything), doesn't mean they don't accept you as a person.

now that was just beautiful - really - the only truly useful thing to come out of this entire chat

OK Hippie Dude - come clean now - you're just funnin' with us, really - aren't you?

please say yes

Was watching Big Cat Diaries a few nights ago and 3 brother juvenile cubs lined up and started humping each other. I looked for clip but couldn't find one, the mother's name was Serbia, Surbia, or something similar. The family perishes, I think, 5 mins later because the mom attacks a rather large antelope and lost.

So I guess incest is natural now too.

Hunka....exactly what natural process occurs as the result of homosexual sexual intercourse? The pandering I saw, the examples you mentioned I didn't. Not kissing I hope.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Staringintoinfinity]

Wait, nevermind. Ejaculation is a "natural process". I'll have need to come up with better wording. Everyone knows what I meant by the original statement but some will choose to play word games.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Staringintoinfinity]

Originally posted by OLD HIPPIE DUDE

My argument is the facts are:
1. humans are not animals.
2.gays are not natural or normal.

Wrong on both counts. We are one of the great apes.

en.wikipedia.org...

And anything that occurs in nature is by its very definition, natural. Homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, therefore it is natural.

Whether it's normal or not is a matter for debate

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

If the male animals who try to have sex with anothe male animal had the mental power and reasoning to understand that said sex will not produce an offspring, they would immediately lose interest.

I would partialy agree with you. In most cases yes, however that implies that gay men don't have the mental power to understand that they can't procreate, which of course they do. So once again where does that leave us?
I have been trying to get across that mankind has not always been a educated or moral form of life. Primitive man had basic instincts just as animals do. To find food, water, shelter, and to mate are our most basic instincts and have never left us. Humans however had many more things going for them such as thumbs and a larger brain that over time developed higher brain functions.

We are enlightend animals. The evidence of our animals roots is in our faces every day in the form of violence, rape, homosexuality, etc. All of these things can be found in nature.

I think Joe Rogan said it in a rather fine fashion during one of his shows. Something like " if I made you a sandwich out of 96%(reference to our level of shared DNA with chimps) poop and 4% ham, would you consider it a poop sandwich or a ham sandwich?".

reply to post by 0010110011101


I had a gay terrior named Barney, years ago. It was a bit awkward walking him in the park, especially when we crossed paths with others walking their male dogs.

Wonderworld I like your signature, but does ones choices come from passion or logic, or a balance of both.


To the rest, Darwinism has been disproven years ago, so I won't go there.

Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Sure, and dogs sniff each other's back end because they have scent glands back there. Still, you can't take that behavior and correlate that with human behavior even if some humans do that. Observing an animal behavior and a human who imitates the same behavior doesn't mean it's natural for a human to do so. As if someone jumping from a bridge can be equated to a bird flying. I know that's an extreme example, but just a point in case.

Oh ok, so you have made a distinction here... you are implying that it's not so much that it's not "natural" as it's not "natural for humans".

Well, I'd say that you are right about the Dog... complete different animal there...

However Bonobos engage in the same types of sexual behavior as humans do... Including missionary style sex and oral sex...

The difference is that they don't form marriages... And they use sex for a social function to release tension...


That seems like a pretty good use of sex if you ask me... kinda like the old make love not war speal...

Here's another bit about Bonobos and how close they are to us

Bonobos are capable of passing the mirror-recognition test for self-awareness. They communicate primarily through vocal means, although the meanings of their vocalizations are not currently known. However, most humans do understand their facial expressions[13] and some of their natural hand gestures, such as their invitation to play. Two Bonobos at the Great Ape Trust, Kanzi and Panbanisha, have been taught how to communicate using a keyboard labeled with lexigrams (geometric symbols) and they can respond to spoken sentences. Kanzi's vocabulary consists of more than 500 English words[33] and he has comprehension of around 3,000 spoken English words.[34] Some, such as philosopher and bioethicist Peter Singer, argue that these results qualify them for the "rights to survival and life," rights that humans theoretically accord to all persons.

There are instances in which non-human primates have been reported to have expressed joy. One study analyzed and recorded sounds made by human babies and Bonobos when they were tickled.[35] It found although the Bonobo's laugh was a higher frequency, the laugh followed a similar spectrographic pattern to human babies.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by bobbylove321
Being homosexual is a choice and nothing else.

For everyone that argues that there's a gay gene, then show some solid proof. As of today, there's no ACTUAL proof that says there's a gay gene.

Animals can do whatever they want because it's not important.

Humans being gay on the other hand is simply a choice, and it's their lifestyle, so it's NOT natural.

That is the most ignorant thing Ive read on ATS. Homosexuality is not a choice, its obviously a natural thing. I take it you don't know any gay people. Just in the same way you don't choose to be hetrosexual. You may not think there is a specific Gay gene, but there are many genes that effect sexual choices.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by woodwardjnr]

I used to believe you were right then as i got older i started meeting bi sexual both male and female. If there was a gene that made you gay or straight then what happened to these people? I believe this simply falls under attraction and some people handle dealing with there own gender better than others. My wife is friends with a woman that now considers herself gay we've talked she has had one bad experience after another from guys shes dated, and now has decided shes not going to deal with guys and cant stand even thinking about dating one. Kind of a shame because she is hot but thats another story.

reply to post by dragonridr


There are some who are that way from day 1 and there are others who acquire it after life experiences... either way, it's still very natural.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPIE DUDE
Wonderworld I like your signature, but does ones choices come from passion or logic, or a balance of both.


To the rest, Darwinism has been disproven years ago, so I won't go there.

If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins. Passion and prejudice govern the world, only under the name of reason. So yes to both.

Thank you!

I aslo dont believe in the Darwin theory. They cant find the missing link because it doesnt exist.

reply to post by dragonridr


Hi there,

I dont understand the gay issue to much. I know 2 men, friends of mine that were both molested by men when they were young. They are both gay. I never asked why their preference was men due to this traumatic experience.

Does anyone understand this. It was not something they enjoyed, when this first happened. It seems logical they would have hate towards this? Maybe they do but I dont understand? Not that you do, just curious.

Wonderworld your signature is very relevent to this topic and it seems to go over most heads here, animals don't have the option of choice where as humans do, animals have only their instinct. Animals don't know the difference from right or wrong, good or bad , humans do.
Animal instincts in humans is still controlled by choice and thats what seperates us from animals.