Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

reply to post by Hazelnut


I help in the local Baha'i' childrens class here. We have kids from all over the planet and of many different religions and we always stress what we call the common morality and ethics that all faiths share and it shows in those kids... they are so much better than we are.

I am a big advocate of teaching ethics in schools... just so long as it is non sectarian or non denominational.

I mean seriously... if we don't teach them... who will?

And the gist of all moral and ethical teachings is as its said in the Talmud...

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary."

Would you want to be treated the way many homophobes treat gays?

No.

Then don't treat them that way.


[edit on 18-6-2009 by grover]

I love it when people who try to justify their opinions that gay relationships are ok, they seem to use animals as the qualifier. Ok if you want to be an animal go right ahead and be with the same sex. There are lots of things that animal’s do that I think would be wrong for humans. Just because animals are doing "it" with other same sex animals aren't we above all that? We aren't mere animals, we are humans. Aren't we supposed to be "evolved" above other animals? Wouldn't that then include our behaviors and dare I say it passions? When did self discipline go right out the window? Just because someone wants to engage in same sex relationships, does that make it right? If so then I guess those who engage in such relationships are simply putting themselves on the same level as animals. I didn't say it...studies like these and those who use them to prove their points do.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

We are animals don't you know?

I mean you're not a rock or a vegetable are you?...

Don't you understand? For us sex is far more than simple reproduction... if it were that simple we would have estrus and breed only then... but we don't... in fact there is only one other animal that has sex simply for the fun of it and that is our closest living relative... the Bonobo.

For us sex means so much more including bonding, social status and indeed it is seen spiritually as well and if a person for whatever the reason finds that in a member of his own sex...

Really who are we to gainsay that?

reply to post by grover


You just proved my point exactly but for some reason missed the point yourself. For us it is spiritual, intimate and more than merely physical... that’s my whole point, we aren't doing "it" to merely reproduce, and to use the animal world as a justifier of a certain type of "behavior" is to demean mankind to mere animals. To answer your question of am I an animal? No, I'm a man, I am above an animal.

I would like to think that we are above the animals too but... NAH. Our own behavior proves otherwise...

Indeed it sometimes seems that the animals are better.

My point in this whole thread is that love transcends mere biology and if 2 people find that love in a relationship with a member of the same sex who are we to gainsay it?

reply to post by grover


Im sure your a very kind person, that is clear from your postings. But I'm afraid that so many with kind hearts these days are also misguided on issues of right and wrong. Even the greek philosophers realised that "gay" relationships are fruitless and only satisfy the lusts of the flesh, and remember these people lived in greece, lol the gay capitol of the world lol, just kidding. There is a love that two of the same sex can share that doesnt have to decend into the realm of the sexual. When sex comes into the mix, then its simply lust nothing more. If our relationships then are degraged to mere lust then when does it become wrong? What if a person finds a "connection" with a horse? Thats happened before, yet society finds that wrong. What makes that wrong? Is it because its a horse and not another human? What if the horse and the person find something wonderful in eachother? Who are we then to say that is wrong? I know that statement will piss off many but the point is that just because something like sex with another of the same gender can be done, should it be done? When does something like sex become wrong? There has to be clear boundries in every society inorder for chaos to be controled. Certian acts need to be discouraged and others encouraged. Homosexuallity isnt a genetic thing or a species thing, its a choice that one makes, either to persuit or not.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


The problem with this animal comparison is, animals cannot reason the way a human can. A male animal does not look at another male animal and think "I know that is another male, and I want to have sex with him" -- animals are merely reacting to a thoughtless reproduction blueprint instinct which urges them to reproduce. If the male animal had reasoning powers and was able to understand that no offspring would be produced with such a mating, he would go on his way and find a female. Many times they just have dumb luck and offspring are the result.

reply to post by Bombeni


Well the argument then is "who are we to say that animals cant reason?" There are many in the scientific community who would beg to differ. So we cant line of reasoning either.

Again my premis is that we are human beings and it shouldnt matter what the animal kingdom does sexually we must control our passions with reason, morality, and humanity.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by grover

 

Im sure your a very kind person, that is clear from your postings. But I'm afraid that so many with kind hearts these days are also misguided on issues of right and wrong.

Right and wrong exist only in your mind....

There are only goals, and conducive methods to reaching those goals...

Everything else is simply bias...

For example, in the Celtic pagan religions there were no sins, other than coming to a standstill in life. All other morality was between humans, not between humans and a diety.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by Bombeni

 

Well the argument then is "who are we to say that animals cant reason?" There are many in the scientific community who would beg to differ. So we cant line of reasoning either.

Again my premis is that we are human beings and it shouldnt matter what the animal kingdom does sexually we must control our passions with reason, morality, and humanity.

lol... As if we are not part of the animal kingdom....

The bottom line is this:

What is important is that we love... not the gender of who we love.

also maybe a little off topic, but the whole miss america scandal.. She spoke her feelings, expressing her right to do so, and gay people fighting for their rights want to surpress her freedom? And now it turns out the pagent director is gay? Its as bad as blacks hiding behind their skin.

Originally posted by Mailman
also maybe a little off topic, but the whole miss america scandal.. She spoke her feelings, expressing her right to do so, and gay people fighting for their rights want to surpress her freedom? And now it turns out the pagent director is gay? Its as bad as blacks hiding behind their skin.

Well actually no, your racist overtones are probably worse...

You see she was fired not because of what she said. She was fired because she stopped doing the schedule she was supposed to follow of appearances, interviews, fundraisers etc.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Its not being racist, just saying how things are. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy.
Whats is the agenda here anyway? Do we want young "straight" kids having homosexual awareness before they even hit puberty?

If its natural, ok we dont need to show gay penguins on the news to confuse millions of children.

If I sounded racist, I can assure you it has only transpired over the past year or two of my 30 year existence.

Originally posted by OKCBtard
Does perversion mean you are hurting someone? Also there are atleast a million rape victims that would disagree with you on the whole homosexuality not hurting anyone!

Also, this is for you
en.wikipedia.org...
homosexuality is a perversion. Thank you!

Obviously, going by your argument, we must ban heterosexual marriage.

You are suggesting gay marriage is bad because some gays are rapists.
The bulk of rapes are carried out by heterosexuals.
By your logic, that makes heterosexuals perverts and allowing them to marry would debase the whole concept of marriage.

By the way, your link does not support your opinion.
It points out that homosexuality is currently not regarded by psychiatry as a perversion or even a disorder.

Thank you for proving your own ignorance.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by grover

 

Im sure your a very kind person, that is clear from your postings. But I'm afraid that so many with kind hearts these days are also misguided on issues of right and wrong.

I find it amusing that you state this as if you are the authority on what is right and wrong. The idea that homosexuality is wrong is rooted in only one place : religion. In my view, using a 2000 year old book that mentions burning bushes and talking snakes as the only source for your moral compass is both wrong and illogical.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by Rockstrongo37

 

The problem with this animal comparison is, animals cannot reason the way a human can.

You know I think you make an excellent point here. And I would like to expand just a bit on it... While Bible believing Christians get criticized for having strict high moral standards that are dictated by a transcendent supernatural God. So high that even we can not always live up to them. At least we make an effort and confess pour sin when we fail.

BUT... isn't it quite revealing of how utterly depraved people are when they have to stoop down into the animal kingdom to define their morality!

Christian/bigot: "Homosexuality is unnatural. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."

Gay: "It can't be unnatural because animals do it in the wild."

Christian/bigot: "If you do things just because they are natural you will rape and murder and throw faeces."



Christian/bigot: "God says in the Bible being gay is an abomination!"

Gay: "God says in the Bible you should burn witches, stone disobedient children, and never work on Saturday, eat lobsters or oysters, or wear cloth made of two different fibres. Are you following all that?

Christian/bigot: "You just don't understand My Bible! You can't have read it. They never taught me those bits in Bible study!"



Christian/bigot: "Those flaming queens bring trouble on themselves by shoving their perverted homosexual agenda in people's faces."

Gay: "Before we started speaking up and staging gay mardi-gras, far more gays were being attacked and murdered."

Christian/bigot: "So now you hold hands in the street and make me uncomfortable. I'd rather you were back in your closets getting attacked and murdered."



Christian/bigot: "Gays are disgustingly promiscuous."

Gay: "I'd like to marry the man I love and be with him for life."

Christian/bigot: "No way! That would defile the failing marriages of all adulterous Christians!"

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Bombeni
The problem with this animal comparison is, animals cannot reason the way a human can.

You know I think you make an excellent point here. And I would like to expand just a bit on it... While Bible believing Christians get criticized for having strict high moral standards that are dictated by a transcendent supernatural God. So high that even we can not always live up to them. At least we make an effort and confess pour sin when we fail.

BUT... isn't it quite revealing of how utterly depraved people are when they have to stoop down into the animal kingdom to define their morality!

Luke 18

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

it's a shame this thread started with an article on a scientific study and has since devolved into a morality war. when sexual reproduction isn't required for the propagation of a species, does it really matter what the sexual orientation is of the members of that species? natural parthenogenesis has been a reality since before humans existed and we are now making artificial parthenogenesis a reality.

my two cents on why people are so quick to bring up studies regarding homosexual behavior in animals? about fifteen years ago, i stood in my kitchen and listened to a friend explain that homosexuality was a human invention and completely unnatural, that it simply didn't exist in the animal world. that argument has been refuted. their argument is now, "well, why would i want to be like an animal anyway."