Pedophile says 'two strikes' law will cause deaths

reply to post by silo13


That's not a contradiction. That's a distinction between punishment for an action taken, and a punishment levied for the way you were born/developed - which is out of your control. It was a distinction I had hoped to make clear - because some people often can't tell the difference between someone who's turned on by children, and someone who rapes children. While I personally agree that either form is grotesque in the highest degree, I cannot justify the persecution of someone for being born a certain way. Just like I find the act of cannibalism grotesque, I cannot justify the criminalization of someone behind their desk gettin it on to a fantasy picture - even if I also think Dahlmer got off easy with bludgeoning death for his crimes. (It should be noted he had severe mental issues. I believe it was reported that he got sexual gratification from his cannibalism, but it wasn't quite like a purely sexual fetish)

I don't have the statistics on hand, and I'd be much obliged if anyone feels like posting them - be they contradictory or confirming - but as I understand it, a large portion of the people convicted of pedophilia aren't really even pedophiles. They're adventure seekers, experimenters, etc. Many men experiment with homosexuality, though they are not homosexual themselves. Some are caught within rules - such as the poster above regarding the Arizona case where the sexual contact was consensual between persons of similar age - but outside of existing laws.

The issue is complex. It's not cut & dry, and cut & dry solutions aren't working. They won't work. Replacing a current cut & dry policy with a new (and more brutal) cut & dry policy isn't going to work either - and may make the situation even worse.

Because yeah... we've seen how well crackdowns and mandatory minimums other unrealistic, unjust, and oversimplified stuff works with the War on Drugs... having unforeseen consequences down the road, such as wasted tax dollars, dirtier drugs, terrorism funding... etc... amirite?

reply to post by Harlequin


Silly Harlequin... nobody cares about poor brown people half the world away.

... until they ram airliners into our skyscrapers. Hmm....

reply to post by Harlequin


Ye I'm cool with that, she's just as sick as any man that'd do it, if not worse for selling tickets. Woman want equal rights? Same crime, same punishment far as I'm concerned

Originally posted by MrAndy
I feel very disgusted after reading this thread. At this place of all places, you still believe in pure evil. Murder is not justice! Torture is not justice! Why do you think a pedophile cannot get help? It is not a "cold hard fact". "Evil" is an archaic term used to explain why someone can do a terrible act. We're smarter than this now, we know that these people aren't supernatural villains, these are human beings with warped cognition. We may as well begin witch hunts once again.

If it stops innocent kids losing their childhood and possibly the rest of their life then yeah we should have witchhunts again. Its about time some of the scumbags on this planet were worried about the implications of what would happen to them for such a heinous offence, not oh I'll get 4 years and I'll be out in 2. It's PATHETIC

^^

good , then as long as you include all the drunken teenage yobs in your crusade then society will be safe.


edit:

title for the law

`Conform or die`

[edit on 18/6/09 by Harlequin]

What are you on about?

My offence here seems to have developed from my hatred towards absolute sicko's who ruin several people's lives just to further their own disgusting game.

I apologize profusely.. I didn't realise some people just weren't that bothered about disturbed individuals who thinks its ok to have sex with kids.

As I said earlier, if no-one else is willing to stick 'em on the chopping block, worry not. I'll gladly do that for a living

reply to post by tezzajw


So, this person is allowed to speak? Was their victim allowed anything?


Kill child abusers right now. Also kill murderers.

The world needs decent people to cope.
One thing we do not need is death row. Just kill them right now or forget it. Even a killer deserves instant death, not to hang around.

reply to post by spellbound


Couldn't agree more..

Have a cigar, you deserve it

Seriousy, I hate pedophiles (almost) as much as the next guy, but the level of "righteous" hatred is totally unhealthy and to me, is just a haven for the hatred many people feel but can't express to people unless they are people as despised as pedophiles.

reply to post by ItsallCrazy


Hey, thanks, but , you know, I am at a loss here as to how to do anything - I mean, how do we get people together, to love each other, to stop war?

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Hi, Donny, how are you?

I am your friend, remember?

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Hi, Donny, how are you?

I am your friend, remember?

Of course I do.

I'm pretty good, yourself?

I hope I don't sound like I'm sticking up for the chomos ... I'm just a pacifist all-around and the hatred good people have towards these scum disturbs me because it is so intense and I don't understand it completely.

reply to post by ItsallCrazy


if your directing that to me then quite honestly you have the wrong end of the stick;

those who think of children` in that way` should be hung drawn and quatered then fed to pirahna , all whilst still alive.


all i was saying was , you should include the drunken teenage thugs who batter old ladies on a friday night in there hoodies,

reply to post by spellbound


I honestly don't know.. people need to go back to more spiritual roots in my honest opinion. People doing some soul searching as to what their actual purpose is. I don't want get into religious debates but I believe if people are going to follow such beliefs that they all need to be traced back to the initial grass roots stage, cos all religions no matter how varied came from one source originally as did everything else.
But everything on this entire planet is so contaminated with lies and crap that we may just have to start completely anew.

Donnie

I realise this hate may seem over the top that I'm expressing but I've always had a solid belief of whats right and wrong, this as far as I'm concerned is all human rights.

Where someone has infringed seriously (and this is about as serious as it gets) someone elses human rights, in my opinion they have instantly forfeited their own rights.

I know where my morals come from and my parents never pushed it upon me, all they taught me was manners and respect. It comes from within and I don't understand how any other human on this planet can do such things to such innocent and helpless people and not want to instantly jump off a building knowing what they've done.

It seems a contradiction in terms that I'm on about morals and then killing the offenders for what they've done but to do that to another person... they're no better than an animal, and when a dangerous animal comes lurking around what do you do?

You put it down

[edit on 18-6-2009 by ItsallCrazy]

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Hey, Donnie, I hope you are coping well - just keep smiling, ok?

How to cope with this world is just keep smiling. It may sound mad, but just do it.

there is no cure. there is no rehab. the only solution is to remove them from the gene pool.

is that somehow harsh?

we are not talking about politics or cultural differences here, we are talking about child rape and murder. if the cause of pedophilia could be tracked down during pregnancy it would be a strong argument for the pro-choice movement. i bet it wouldn't be a problem then. it would be a non-issue. (for both!)

until then, i say we allow the state to sanction human experimentation so that at least they may prove to be of some use.

everyone i know that was molested as a child is severely F'd up as an adult. this some how has a positive impact on society?

we go to war for far less. surely that amount of effort can be focused on something that plagues every nook and cranny of civilization. it transcends race, class, creed, religion... it can be found everywhere, yet we do not drag this enemy out into the street and blow it's brains out.

why the hell not? if science cannot provide an acceptable answer, a firing squad will do...

reply to post by Harlequin


Harlequin.. my honest apologies this time we seem to have some crossed wires, I took it that you meant I was being over the top and for me to take off like some kind of vigilante righting all wrongs lol.

I'm only 21 myself so I don't really think anything of kids other than that.. just kids.

And as far as the old ladies getting mugged thing goes.. the type of youths that do that have no balls whatsoever and need their asses kicked. I know for a fact that one day I'll see something like that going down and I will be the one handing out the beatings!


Just to add.. gravykraken if you could give posts multiple stars I'd give you a god damn universe

[edit on 18-6-2009 by ItsallCrazy]

i'm sorry but "removing them from the gene pool" sounds like Nazi-type eugenics to me. who even said it is a genetic thing anyway?

as for all victims of molestation being severely f'ed up ... wait, you're saying there's no hope for any of them? ellen degeneres and oprah winfrey were both molested as kids ... i wouldn't call them f'ed up!

reply to post by Lasheic

That's not a contradiction. That's a distinction between punishment for an action taken, and a punishment levied for the way you were born/developed - which is out of your control. It was a distinction I had hoped to make clear

I understood it as a contradiction over the behavior of pedophiles who couldn’t control their compulsions vs. couldn’t or wouldn’t control the behavior stemming from the compulsion.

because some people often can't tell the difference between someone who's turned on by children, and someone who rapes children.

I wont shake a stick at that seeing as I do understand the point your trying to make.

While I personally agree that either form is grotesque in the highest degree, I cannot justify the persecution of someone for being born a certain way. Just like I find the act of cannibalism grotesque, I cannot justify the criminalization of someone behind their desk gettin it on to a fantasy picture

Ok I want to avoid mixing apples and oranges here so Ill bypass the cannibalism reference, but I’ll address this.
I would not want to persecute anyone if they in fact were *born* the way they are. (Another debate I don’t want to get distracted by).
But.
I most definitely would (if I had the right to make the law) persecute those same people, with death, if they acted on their *compulsions* and raped a child.

I don't have the statistics on hand, and I'd be much obliged if anyone feels like posting them - be they contradictory or confirming - but as I understand it, a large portion of the people convicted of pedophilia aren't really even pedophiles.

If you’re convicted of an act of pedophilia - you’re a pedophile.
Sorry, there’s no *let me try it just once to find out* clause in my book.
Rape a child - you’ve forfeited your right to life.

They're adventure seekers, experimenters, etc.

Yes and the risk of adventure, even once, is death...
That first bungee jump cord just might snap.
That's in part what gives it the thrill.
The consequence for *jumping into pedophilia* even once, should be the same.
I can assure you, the *just once* argument makes no difference at all to a child who's been raped.

The issue is complex. It's not cut & dry, and cut & dry solutions aren't working. They won't work. Replacing a current cut & dry policy with a new (and more brutal) cut & dry policy isn't going to work either - and may make the situation even worse.

Well the so called solution now hasn’t worked for quite a long time.
Try capital punishment for child rapists and let’s see what happens

As you said, the issue is complex to some.
To me, it’s very cut and dried, no contest.
But, in saying that I respect your right to your opinion and I’ve enjoyed debating the point with someone who’s not only well spoken and (seemingly) well read, but in possession of courtesy and an open mind.

Thank you.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by silo13]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Techsnow
What's so wrong wth sex with a 12 yr old?

You sir, are morally deficient.

In all my years of involvement on the staff of ATS, I have never before felt compelled to ban someone solely on their stated opinion in a post... until now.

Bingo.

ATS doesn't have a two strike policy.

Sometimes people, big brother rocks!