Originally posted by subject x
I have no problem with people using CC works to make their own stuff, but when folks start making money off other people's works that just bugs me. I
know how much work is involved with making music or fim, and for others to profit off this work without sharing just sticks in my craw.
I
understand. It's a tough call for me as well. I'm acutely aware of copyright law (worked at Kinko's when I was working my way through college) and
as a content creator myself (internationally published photographer, musician on 5 albums, credits in IMDB and on DVDs you probably own, etc...). And
my own art lately IS derivative work, which is probably why I'm a little defensive on the subject. For me, the line I draw, or the question I ask
myself is "Is my new piece substantially transformative from the original?" 2 Live Crew vs Roy Orbison was a clear case, in my opinion, where the
new work was NOT transformative. Sure, they were rapping over it and to a degree made it their own, but the original was still too recognizable. It's
a fuzzy area, to be sure.
Although I'm not a big Disney fan, I don't recall him chopping up other people's films to construct his own. The retelling of traditional
stories is not the same thing, and I think you realize that.
Of course, I'm just taking Disney as an example because they're the ones who
keep pushing for copyright extensions and many of the works that built them up as a company were based on things they didn't own rights to.
Once again, not the same thing. Parody and commentary are not the issues here. The issue is people like "Girl Talk" pasting together other
people's work and profiting from it. He's not stealing riffs and melodies and re-performing them in his own framework, he's using other artist's
hard work to patch together his own drivel and profit from it. I'm sure you see the difference, but for some reason you're acting as if you
don't.
Legally I see a difference (though minor), procedurally there's a difference, but as far as the end results, I don't know if I'm
willing to make a judgment call and say that a musician playing someone else's riff (a la Jimmy Page vs Muddy Waters) is any better or worse than
someone sampling a recorded riff.
We're not talking about quotes. When quoting, credit is given to the quotee. (is that a word?) People generally don't paste together a bunch
of quotes and call it their own work.
Of course, William S. Burroughs and Brion Gysin were notable for doing exactly that. For that matter
Robert Rauschenberg and Jasper Johns if you're willing to extend the metaphor beyond words to other visual collage.
Besides, nothing you said about quoting has anything to do with my statement about the sad state of a public who will actually pay for
copy-and-paste "art".
Again, see Rauschenberg, Johns, Warhol, Duchamp, and any number of others who made their art sometimes literally
copying and pasting.
So basically, your responses here have nothing to do with the issue as I see it. I could be wrong, and feel free to clarify your connections
for me, as I might just be a little dense.
No need to apologize, we can keep this civil, and as I said, I'm coming at this from both a content
creator who's done original work and someone who's sampled, so my point of view on the matter has shifted over the years. (Not saying that I'm any
more right than you, just letting you know it's not a topic that I treat lightly... copyright and intellectual property rights are important issues
for me and my friends, so it's something we've debated long into the night for more than 15 years...)
[edit on 6/19/2009 by JoshNorton]