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Muslim Call To Prayer In Your Hometown

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posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 

From Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...


Adhan is called out by the muezzin in the mosque, sometimes from a minaret, five times a day summoning Muslims for mandatory (fard) prayers (salah). There is a second call known as iqama (set up) that summons Muslims to line up for the beginning of the prayers. The main purpose behind the loud pronouncement of adhan five times a day in every mosque is to make available to everyone an easily intelligible summary of Islamic belief. It is intended to bring to the mind of every believer and non-believer the substance of Islamic beliefs, or its spiritual ideology. Loudspeakers are sometimes installed on minarets for the purpose.


And as for what the Adhan says:



God is the greatest
I bear witness that there is no deity except God
I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God
Make haste towards worship
come to the true success
Prayer is better than sleep
God is the greatest
There is no deity except God


Now me personally as a person who tries to find the truth in all Religions I have no problem with any of that... indeed I am reminded of this:


NINTH BRAHMANA

Then Vidagdha Sakalya asked him, 'How many gods are
there, O Yagnavalkya?

He replied: 'As many as are mentioned in the hymn of praise
addressed to the Visvedevas,
three and three hundred, three and three thousand.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
Thirty-three,' he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
Six,' he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
Three,' he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
Two,' he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
One and a half, he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked again: 'How many gods are there really?
One,' he said.
Yes,' he said, and asked: 'Who are these three and three hundred, three and three thousand?'
Yagnavalkya replied: In reality,They are only the various aspects of the one.

from The Upanishads

In that light... How many Gods are there?

ONE.... And God is far bigger than any names we might give to it.



[edit on 17-6-2009 by grover]




posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by triplesod
I think it sounds great, especially when sung by an elder in a very acoustic area.

What annoys you about it? That it is in a language you don't understand? That it is something you don't understand? From a culture you don't understand?

But we're not discussing it being sung by an elder in a very acoustic area.

This thread is about it being broadcast over the city by multiple loudspeakers.

- At 6 every morning, 7 days a week, then broadcast regularly all day long, with the last one at 10 pm.

There's already too much noise in this world.
One doesn't have to be a bigot to dislike discordant daily deafening.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by grover
 



End of Days: It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days. In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth. Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision. I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory. Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians. The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.


www.freerepublic.com...

Maybe this is an extremist website? I dont know. Allot of them say the same thing. Oh and that tax you were talking about.


In a letter, seen by Worthy News Monday, June 15, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) said non-Muslims should “embrace Islam”, or pay an Islamic tax known as 'Jaziva Tax' to Muslim rulers, or leave Pakistan “forever”, if they don't want to be harmed. “If the infidels rejected this suggestion they, would be killed and they would be responsible for it”, wrote TTP leader Muslim Khan. And, "The women of these disobedient infidels would be enslaved and raped according to [an Islamic ritual] Mut’a," he said. Under Mut’a a Muslim man can, in theory, marry a woman for several hours and after having sexual intercourse can divorce again by saying three times "I divorce you". The children conceived would be converted to Islam, enslaved and forced to work for TTP, the group added in the letter. The letter was received May 27, by residents in the Jafferia Colony neighborhood of Lahore, the capital of the Pakistani province of Punjab.


www.worthynews.com...


Pakistan Christian Leaders Call for an End to Islamic Tax By John Beita Christian Post Reporter Mon, Jun. 08 2009 11:44 AM EDT


www.christianpost.com...


You see I have a healthy fear of this unknown. I know my God has the situation in hand and I am protected. I am afraid for those who are ignorant. Just thought I'd share my homophobic thing with you.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Rook,


The millionaire is one man, the religious collective is a group within the community.


It’s still an issue of a minority doing something against the wishes of the majority. It’s also still a case of one party’s desires having a disproportionate effect on another for little justifiable reason.

I agree with you if the community doesn’t mind it then there’s nothing to argue, however I’m discussing the right of people to object more than I am arguing about this specific case.

Debunky,


The "cultural accepted" argument boils down to "I am used to it" no matter if you like it or not.


It doesn’t. “Used to it” implies a background noise that is incidental but church bells in many communities do make up part of the character, culture and tradition of the area.

The fact is it is accepted, whether it’s useful or not, whether it’s loud or not, it’s accepted. Who is anyone to force people to accept something they don’t want because someone else has an imaginary friend in the sky?

At the end of the day the call to prayer is intrusive and those on whose lives it intrudes have the right to say they don’t want it; even if they say they’re happy to have church bells. You may say it’s hypocritical but they have the right to be hypocrites.


Get's even emptier if one considers other things that have been or are "culturally accepted" or not at one time or other.
Women wearing trousers
having different parkbenches for blacks and whites
wearing a star on your coat


You’re setting up a logical fallacy by comparing this to racial segregation and the prelude to the holocaust. Those were cases where others were being persecuted; no one is being persecuted by denying them right to play a religious recording to an entire community. They are still free to practice there religion without it and there is no commandment or scripture threatening dire consequences if they don’t hear it.

If you read all of my posts you would see that I have mentioned aspects of culture that have changed due to outside influence or the influences of a minority (i.e. women wearing trousers). I have no problem with these, it is however the method by which the change comes about that is the important aspect of my argument; natural cultural evolution driven by the collective through there acceptance or rejection is how it should happen. It should not happen by one party using religion as an excuse to over rule the wishes of a majority.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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It's EXACTLY like hearing church bells. The call to prayer is not unsufferable.

I'm glad that this sort of thing is being done instead of outlawing bell towers at Christian churches, or banning Santa from schools.

This is coexistence. In the USA, we make an effort to tolerate nonviolent demonstrations of faith.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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is it any different than the 3-4 Jehova Witnesses we get on our door every day?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


Yes it is a little different. Check this out.


Conversion, Subjugation, or Death: The Qur'an contains detailed instructions and examples of how to meet unbelievers. The first instruction is that they should be called to Islam; in fact, the Qur'an says you cannot wage war against unbelievers until you have preached to them. The second instruction is that if they do not convert to Islam, then, they must be fought. The third instruction is that if they surrender, or convert, then you must stop waging war. The final instruction is that if they do not convert or surrender, then they must be killed. This is the optimum route for Islamist expansion: A tidal wave of war, subjugation and conversion.


Did you get that one part? The first instruction being that unbelievers should be called to Islam and preached to. They want loudspeakers broadcasting who knows what five times a day. Can't say we weren't preached to that way.


There is another provision in the Qur'an though, because sometimes Muslims aren't in a position to wage war. In this occasion, the examples and teachings of the Qur'an are that Muslims may make deals with their enemies, with unbelievers, engage in truces and the like in order to recuperate and gain strength. The overriding concern is the fight against unbelievers; if this can't be achieved then it is ok to strategically lay low. To achieve more sneaky victories, it is acceptable to deceive, double-cross and break deals. Deals with unbelievers are not real deals, anyway, and are to be broken as soon as more aggressive moves can be made. Robert Spencer, author of "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" points out that there are over 100 verses in the Qur'an that exhort Muslims to fight unbelievers; this includes 'chopping their .s off' (Qur'an 47:4). The verse says that Allah forgives only those who have the right beliefs, and non-believers' actions will 'come to nothing'.


Do you see what I mean? This is much different than someone offering you a watchtower pamphlet.


Not all Muslims, however, know the Quran very well. Many do not read it; many cannot read it (many Muslims are not Arabs). But in a general environment where the afterlife becomes such a cultural totem, and the way to get there is to 'be a Muslim', it only takes a general anti-Muslim slant in Islam before many pick up on the violent vibes, and take up the sword in order to ascertain their own accession.


www.vexen.co.uk...


Someone tell me my concerns are unfounded. Someone tell me that this isn't what Islam is about. We should not be entertaining the idea that we should be tolerant and let them have their religion in our country.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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Wow, some of you guys are ridiculous. I have seen comments floating around about "foreigners coming to our country", and how we are "one nation under God." You do realize that we all started off as outsiders to this country, right? If we all shut each other off from the rest of the world, what would happen? We're one people, on this planet, and we've gotta work together, not isolate ourselves. What is it that it says on the Statue of Liberty?


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!


As for one nation under God, you realize that was added to the pledge in 1954, to show our difference from those 'godless' communists. This county was founded , not on Christianity, but on moral principles. Principles that include the freedom to practice the religion of your choice, including non-Christian ones. Just look at some of the things that Thomas Jefferson said, and the Treaty of Tripoli.

The Islamic call to prayer, like the bells of Christian churches, is a beautiful sound. Maybe some people should be a little more open minded. It seems that some of you have bought into the media's portrait of Islam, and have found solace in xenophobia, among other things.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
Which they arlready do. There are plenty of Christian churches in Muslim countries and they ring their bells. No one has a problem with it.

Really? What makes you so sure that these christian churches are allowed to ring their bells? In Muslim majority countries, Christians (and other religions) are persecuted and their churches often destroyed. I hardly find it likely that they would be granted the privelege of bell ringing, especially as it is seen by many Muslims (there) as a form of proseletysing and that is strictly not allowed.


Originally posted by Rook1545
This is really no different than some churches playing 2-3 minute long songs on thier bells, or towns with clock towers playing songs every hour (I have one of these in my town).

Muslims pray 5 times per day - the first prayer anywhere from 4am -5am in the morning (depending on the time of year. You can find an adhaan video on this page (top vid).

You really think blaring that 5 times per day EVERY day is 'no different' than church bells?


Originally posted by severdsoul
I didnt see where it said how often they would be using the loud speaker,

The call to prayer is broadcast everytime Muslims should go and pray. They pray 5 times per day, ergo 5 times per day.

[edit on 18/6/2009 by Hesperornis]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by KSPigpen
 


The translation seems off. There is none worthy of worship but Allah usually is translated into English as there is no God but God.


al - the
ilah - god
al ilah - the god
ALLAH (contraction of al ilah) - The God.

However Allah is also his name (ie. start of every Surah except 1 & 9) in the NAME of Allah....

it is meaningless to say 'there is no god but god' - it is redundant; however it makes sense when you understand that Allah is his NAME. "There is no god but Allah...."


Originally posted by DezertSkies
No actually, i'm serious, do you think that Yaweh, Jehovah, and Allah are three separate deities? If you truly believe in one god then you should give praise to Allah.

Yes, we know that Muhammad claimed they were the same deity, but that does not make it so. Given that Allah admits in the Quran that he is 'best deceiver' (Quran 3:54, 7:99, 8:30, 10:21 & 13:42 - Arabic: 'makr') , I'd think the Christians here woul dhave another name for Allah.


Originally posted by DezertSkies
Just like Jesus, in the Koran is "Isa". Same dude

No, Jesus in Arabic is Yasu - why didn't Muhammad use HIS name? Instead he used Isa, which translates to Esau. Wasn't there an Esau in the bible?


Originally posted by DezertSkies
If Muslims can't have call to prayer then churches shouldn't ring bells either.

Agreed 100%! Let them have their adhaan and you christians can have your bells.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Someone336

The Islamic call to prayer, like the bells of Christian churches, is a beautiful sound. Maybe some people should be a little more open minded. It seems that some of you have bought into the media's portrait of Islam, and have found solace in xenophobia, among other things.


Did you read my post above? You think this is beautiful? I believe you should do a little research on this religion and then tell me if you want to hear that beautiful sound.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Sadly it seems that you are damned and determined to hold on to your ignorance and bigotry come hell or high water.

Hang it up folks he's not interested in being enlightened or educated... he is just looking for a forum to spout his prejudices.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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yeah jack and then you can research Christianity and see the unbeliievable amount of blood spilled due to that religion

-Kyo



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by Rook1545
 


Hearing church bells and hearing someone rant in another language are two different things. Try this link and listen. Imagine that noise bellowing throughout your hometown.

atheists.groups.vox.com...

You have to be kidding me.


I believe religions are a tool of the bloodlines to enslave, divide and conquer, and control us. I believe that spirituality develops out of psi development and metaphysics and should never be an organized religion as such, merely tools taught by various practititioners and workshops. All of that being said, I love the sound of church bells, and after listening to this, I found it rather hauntingly beautiful and reminiscent of lands and people that capture the imagination as well. If it becomes disruptive too early in the morning, there will probably be laws enacted, but its not a terrible sound.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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I am merely asking for someone to show me that this isn't what Islam is all about. I am not intolerant. If I am wrong then I'll gladly apologize for being concerned about it. We all know what Christianity is about. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do onto others as you would have done to you. You reap what you sow. Is there anything someone can tell me about Islam that is along these lines? Can we know for sure that we aren't being force fed an ideology that will be our demise? Or should we just show tolerance and acceptance and damn the consequences?



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
If i pray in the Muslim tradition will all the misery of this land, the oppression, the crazyness all go away????

If so you can find me at the nearest mosque. (sp)







Seriously, what is their track record?

Look at Iran.

Some of the most oppressive repressive regimens in the world.
www.asianews.it...


06/09/2004 17:03
SAUDI ARABIA
Persecution, prison and torture for Christians (profile)


21,6 million people live in Saudi Arabia. 93.7% of them are Muslim and only 3.7% are Christians. Almost all the Christians are foreign people. Catholics are just 900.000.

There is no religious freedom at all in the country. Any kind of public activity, such as possessing a Bible, wearing a crucifix or pray, is strictly forbidden. In too many cases Christians are persecuted, arrested and tortured. In April 2001 two people from the Philippines were arrested for worshipping Christ in their own house. They had to spend one month in jail after being brutally whipped. In May 2001, 11 Christians were arrested for praying together in a private house. In summer 2001, 13 Christians were arrested in Jedda, tortured ad whipped in the presence of the other prisoners. At the present moment, there are no priests in Saudi Arabia. The last one, an American priest, was forced to leave the country in 1985.

Saudi Arabia is ruled by a hereditary monarchy which is grounded on the fundamentalist principles of Wahabi Islam. The government of the country is built on the principles of shari'ah. The Islamic law establishes the nature of the State, its goals and responsibilities, as well as its relationship with the people. Residents who are not Muslim are under the rule of the shari'ah as everybody else.




[edit on 103030p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 103030p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by jackflap
 


Sadly it seems that you are damned and determined to hold on to your ignorance and bigotry come hell or high water.

Hang it up folks he's not interested in being enlightened or educated... he is just looking for a forum to spout his prejudices.


I'm really not spouting my prejudices. I think I've answered my own question in my previous post. Thank you grover for bearing with me on this. Thank you seagull and to those who contributed. I know for sure now. I thought about what I had posted and realized I am worrying for nothing. I will treat them as I want to be treated. I will do unto them as I would have done unto me. I just gotta relax and realize who is in control here. Thank you again.

At least I did let my concerns be known.


[edit on 18-6-2009 by jackflap]



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Hesperornis
 





Really? What makes you so sure that these christian churches are allowed to ring their bells?


I highly doubt it is allowed in some countries.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by jackflap
 


Where may I ask is that happening here in the United States? Yes, yes, it's happened, and is happening, elsewhere in the world. That's most unfortunate. That's why we have a system of protections built in to our nations laws that separate religion from law. That will make it unlikely, if not impossible, that it'll happen here.

If they succeed in doing something like this here, I venture to guess we'll have bigger fish to fry than some silly neighborhood prayer call.

I have a bit more faith (an irresistible pun, sorry) in the fundamental underpinnings of America.





gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...

The South St. Louis skyline is getting a new addition...
...An Islamic prayer tower complete with loud speakers.

If Christians cannot have their religious symbols neither can anyone.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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To me, hearing bells and hearing words being spoken are entirely two different "sounds", one is open for musical interpretation, whereas the other is not, it is an actually spoken call...what if the Christian church played a hymnal instead of bells, or had a preacher doing a good old-fashioned alter call? Then this would be the same, other than that, it is not.



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