You started it, man.

I didn't once tell you that you should call your god 'chester peebottoms'. You said I should call my god Allah.

...and how can you pretend to know wether I am fluent in ANY language...Arabic included...I get it, lets just assume that since I'm not speaking Arabic, I must just somehow be incapable of understanding your grand wisdom.

Take your one-sided opinions back to your cave. You can tell your fellow troglodytes to call YOUR god whatever you like.

Another thing, it isn't MY Christmas music. I don't care if you believe what I do or not, but I have the right, in this 'One Nation..Under GOD' to believe however I so choose...we have watched what this nation was founded on destroyed by a bunch of cry baby foreigners who come over here to get away from the goat dragging rodeos they used to live in so they can tell us how offended they are because the signs say 'Merry Christmas' instead of 'Happy Holidays.'

When the cry babies finally get their way, this nation, that was once great will have one TV station and on it will be the goat dragging rodeo that the cry babies ran away from in the first place...and everyone will only have ONE hand, cuz the trusted leaders of the religion FORCED on everyone else will say that it's appropriate to mame someone for committing a crime.

Oh, but maybe I should believe in a God that says it's ok to cut someone's hand off for trying to feed their family...woohoo. Where do I sign up to drag the goat? Maybe then I can finally be as enlightened as you.

Take your self-important, biased crap and regurgitate it someplace else.

I wouldn't object to the call to prayer, IF it were done as musical notes, not as singing/preaching. I have to agree with those that compared blaring the Lord's Prayer or other scripture with a loudspeaker.

That's the bottom line. Anything blared should fall within the same decibel levels of the town's noise ordinances.

But Wait! you say......... Many of the church bells are really recorded and "blared"! Same answer. If a town or city has a noise ordinance, it has a way of measuring that. All manufactured sounds must comply.

Easy.

Ok. I suppose I owe everyone an apology. I guess I got caught up in the moment.

I may not agree with your opinions, but I will fight to the death for you to be able to express them.

I don't have anything against any particular religion, not any more than ALL religions, but I get very peaved when someone tries to tell me what I should believe.

Sorry folks.

Originally posted by seagull
Call to prayer...

Church bells...

Both appeal to me. I've heard both, and neither bother me in the least. If a minister got on a bullhorn on Sunday morning and recited the Lords Prayer to attract worshipers, I wouldn't care...

They don't come pounding on my door to proselytize/witness.

Neither forces me to worship their God. When they try to force me to with the "sword", then I'll have an issue, not until.

American's are proud of our "live and let live" attitude towards other belief systems...it saddens me to see that maybe, just maybe, it's not quite as widespread as I thought.

While certain freedoms are allowed by the Constitution this is not one of them. This is inflicting a religious view point on the general public. Each person as an individual should be afforded the opportunity to choose whichever Religion we want, without having it preached to us by way of the Call to Prayer from loud speakers because that it not a choice we made for ourselves. If I want to choose Islam I should walk into a Mosque. If someone chooses to attend a rally to listen to the speaker that is different because they choose to go listen, permits were issued etc.. "when they try to force me with the sword then I'll have an issue" how long before that is the case?

The thing about his is that sound is invasive, those within earshot they will have no choice but to listen to it. There will be those who don’t like the call for whatever reason be they religious or maybe they just don’t like how it sounds. Because it is so invasive and it’s is far from a necessity those with objections, assuming it’s a sizable part of the relevant population, should be given priority. It’s no different to someone playing there favourite song five times a day for all the neighbourhood to hear; just because one professes to believe in a magical being doesn’t change how it affects those who don’t share those beliefs.

Personally I make an exception for church bells for three reasons; the first is that they are a neutral sound and not as abrasive as the Islamic call to prayer. The second is that they are often not simply a religious call; in many places they serve other uses within the community beyond religious beliefs. The third, and imo most important is that they have naturally forged a place within the culture of the country and have found acceptance by successive generations going back centuries.

I say the latter as an atheist btw so it’s not religious bias, it is however cultural bias which I will happily stand by.

I've got no problem with it. It's not forcing beliefs on me as many on here seem to think, it's simply portraying something significant to Muslims.

Church bells don't sway me to go to church, nor is the Call to Prayer going to suddenly convert me to Muslim. It's meaningless to me, but I feel it's something that should be accepted, because of the principles this country was based on.

For those citing no choice not to listen? We have no choice not to listen to church bells either...

America is not a Christian-only nation, we have a RIGHT here to worship God, Allah, whomever. One could form a religion worshipping the car they drive, and that's perfectly OK. We are not all Christians and at some point people have to get over that fact. Period.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Heatburger]

Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by KSPigpen
Yeah, I'm sorry, Mr. Quick to condemn my beliefs. Don't tell me who I should give praise to. How arrogant. I don't call my God Allah, jehosephat, simon or pickle monster. Don't tell me who I should sing praises to.

If you have that attitude, take your call to prayer out in the desert with you where the rest of us don't have to listen to it. I am perfectly FINE with you praying to whomever you choose, provided you don't force it on me. Then we have an issue.

It may very well be one god, and I have argued for that numerous times, but don't EVER think you have the right to tell me what I should call him, or how I should worship him.

If I have to listen to some RUBBISH telling me four or five times a day that there is nothing worthy of worship but ALLAH, I will barf and probably get a little anti social.

You're a laugh riot. You call someone else quick to condemn, yet you shoot off your mouth, spewing your own special brand of bigotry and inorance. The reason you don't call YOUR god Allah, is because YOU don't speak Arabic. If you did, even as a Christain, you would call him Allah.

It is your right to call it rubbish, but personally I hate having to listen to YOUR Christmas music. It is stupid and pointless. I hate hearing it in stores, I hate hearing it on the radio, I hate hearing it on commercials. YOUR music, celebrating YOUR religious beliefs, should be completely banned from being played in public.

See what I did there, I acted like you and got all holier than thou. It goes both ways.

Just as a point of reference, the US was built by Christians and it was like this way before any other religious entities entered and started imposing their flawed belief systems on Americans and Canadians. Islamists, all of them radical or not will not be happy until our countries are crappy like their homelands.

Originally posted by Heatburger
I've got no problem with it. It's not forcing beliefs on me as many on here seem to think, it's simply portraying something significant to Muslims.

Church bells don't sway me to go to church, nor is the Call to Prayer going to suddenly convert me to Muslim. It's meaningless to me, but I feel it's something that should be accepted, because of the principles this country was based on.

For those citing no choice not to listen? We have no choice not to listen to church bells either...

America is not a Christian-only nation, we have a RIGHT here to worship God, Allah, whomever. One could form a religion worshipping the car they drive, and that's perfectly OK. We are not all Christians and at some point people have to get over that fact. Period.

Would I welcome a psychopath into my home who has sworn to murder me and my family if I do not believe what that psychopath is telling me to believe? No. Would I welcome a religion into my free country that teaches its followers to convert non believers and if they don't convert then kill them? Absolutely not.



[edit on 16-6-2009 by jackflap]

Originally posted by habfan1968

While certain freedoms are allowed by the Constitution this is not one of them.

Wrong. The Constitution does NOT "Allow" Freedom. It Protects it.

Freedom is inherent and granted to all people by their creator.

Please actually read the document a bit closer, because you are way off base here.

The Constitution does not prohibit citizens from the act of making a ruckus publicly, that is delegated to state or local juristictions. And every place you go to has different rules and regulations on making a public ruckus.

The Constitution was not written for the People, it was written BY the People for the Government.

It is a set of rules that govern the government essentially.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by muzzleflash]

Can't wait for the Christian protestors to gather and drown out the Satanic Muslim call to prayer, with a good old fashioned mass rendition of the Lord's Prayer. It will happen.

To all those who think that this should be tolerated and accepted. Find out what the Muslim religion teaches about non believers. Then tell me that we in this country are held to a higher standard and should welcome this demonic cackling to reverberate through our towns. I believe we are being warmed up to our executioners in more ways then just this. This is no joke.

Originally posted by habfan1968
Just as a point of reference, the US was built by Christians and it was like this way before any other religious entities entered and started imposing their flawed belief systems on Americans and Canadians. Islamists, all of them radical or not will not be happy until our countries are crappy like their homelands.

Technically it wasn't built by Christians. If you go back and look, the Natives were not Christian, the original Mexicans weren't Christian, the slaves weren't until we converted them, the Chinese that built our railroads weren't. The US was not built by Christians, but they like to take the credit for it.

As far as crappy homelands...have you ever seen Dubai? Abu Dhabi? Lebanon before the war? Yeah they are real crappy compared to a busted up trailer park in Kansas and Detroit.

Originally posted by jackflap

To all those who think that this should be tolerated and accepted. Find out what the Muslim religion teaches about non believers.

Ok fair enough.

And what does the Bible say?

Leviticus 20 -9

"For whatsoever man there be that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

So its ok to kill a child who cursed at their parents?

Lev 20-13
"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Kill all homosexuals...

Theres plenty more read the book. Looks like both religions are equally abusive eh?

However, I am aware that modern Bible believers gladly discard this book and pretend it does not affect them.

Well why can't Muslims pretend the bad parts of their book no longer apply to them as well?

Think about it.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

President Theodore Roosevelt

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by jackflap

To all those who think that this should be tolerated and accepted. Find out what the Muslim religion teaches about non believers.

Ok fair enough.

And what does the Bible say?

Leviticus 20 -9

"For whatsoever man there be that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

So its ok to kill a child who cursed at their parents?

Lev 20-13
"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Kill all homosexuals...

Theres plenty more read the book. Looks like both religions are equally abusive eh?

However, I am aware that modern Bible believers gladly discard this book and pretend it does not affect them.

Well why can't Muslims pretend the bad parts of their book no longer apply to them as well?

Think about it.

These things you have listed are penalties for acts of immorality. You failed to report how you can get out of being put to death for such things.

In the Old Testament a sin offering was made. The New Testament does it a little differently.

Hebrews 10:16-18 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

You see our God forgives. I don't think the prophet that muslims pray to offers this.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

I would not like this anymore than I would like a Christian Preacher getting on a city wide speaker saying the Lord's Prayer. I bet hose who support this - would have issue with the Lord's Prayer being forced upon you to hear.

This is not equivalent to ringing bells. Bells are an instrument that makes musical type sounds. A religious prayer with words is (no matter the religion) can not be compared to musical sounds.

Prayer is so far disconnected from a call to prayer. What are the church bells symbollic of again? Pretty sure they represent certain times of the day, which are kicked off by what, exactly?

I really don't get the second paragraph? Our voices are basically an instrument. They can achieve multiple octaves, the only difference is pitch and tone compared to other instruments. Ever head a choir? Sheer beauty. The music everyone listens to wouldn't be sold if the singer had no vocal talent.

And I would find church bells annoying too. I also find it annoying when my neighbor blasts his annoying rap music.

This stuff should be kept inside and not forced upon EVERYONE to hear.

IMO, you should close your ears, and plug your eyes if you can't handle something for what it is. Or maybe you should pick up some rap and see what truths happen through the eyes of another? I suggest eminem, immortal technique, the old e-40, anyone from NWA really, 2pac. These boys grew up hearing gun shots, and you think your life is being ruined. LOL

The city where I live there is a noise ordinance - meaning - you can not even drive your car down the road blasting your radio to the entire world to hear.

JMO.

IMO people are way to sensitive, have no ability to acknowledge the things that make others happy, and well... basically ruin the entire experience for the rest of us. Thanks. No, really. Are you going to slap a fine on your neighbors for the kids crying with the windows open cuz it's hot as hell out? Rather them overheat and die? You want peace and quiet? Get out of the city, get some earplugs, buy sound proof windows and walls, something, don't assault my right to speech and my ability to listen to what I choose to.

I see the ultimate practice of feedom of speech.

Allahu-akhbar = Ding Dong. Beautiful and resonant, each in their own way.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by shanerz]