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Timewave Zero - Countdown to Transition

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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Thank you for that information and good look in your endeavors.




posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by m0rphine
 



The Mayans never said anything like that...it's PSEUDO-SCIENTISTS spreading that nonsense. Sadly enough gullible people fall for it, just like they fall for nonsense like a "galactic alignment" that funny enough happens once a year.


Well, take this for what it's worth.



"The return of the ancestors and the men of wisdom."
That would certainly be classified as a global shift in consciousness and perception in our reality, would it not?




To get to his graph, he smoothed, and smoothed, and smoothed the data over and over and over again in a way that has no basis in logic or rationality. His entire graph is pure coincidence in the first place.


Where did you see that?




But that's EXACTLY what a ton of people do...even though it's abundantly clear that this won't result in any reliable outcomes.


It depends on your definition of reliable outcome. I see this as being purely subjective.




As for McKenna's TWZ and the Mayan calendar corresponding...they DON'T. Her plotted a graph using the Hiroshima bomb (also weird because it wasn't the first nuclear bomb either) as a basis for coming up with his "end date". Once he found the Mayan calendar enters a new cycle in December 2012 (as in: enters a new cycle...they never said anything about a change in human consciousness!!), he simply fiddled with the data to make it fit. And that's a great example of why TWZ is complete and utter nonsense, he and his followers simply fiddle with the data and assign random "events" to this thing to make it fit. No proof, no objective evidence, no rationality...and most certainly no logic.


He plotted the graph starting at the big bang. The events afterwards that corresponded with the graph are huge events that happened to have changed human history and the way we look and interact with our world. Do you have any proof he adjusted the graph to fit the 2012 date? Because he himself has said it was purely a coincidence that the graph ended there, and that he did not know of the Maya until after his graph was completed.




I wouldn't call a person who claims a mushroom lead to homo sapiens "logical"


He did not claim this is what happened, it is simply a theory like any other. I personally find it an intriguing idea and don't see why it could not be true until I see some scientific data proving otherwise. It would make sense if you have ever experienced the effects. On this note, I would also say there's some kind of connection between psilocybin and telepathy, although this is irrelevant to the topic.
edit on 20-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by m0rphine
 


You've been conned into thinking that this person in the video is reporting on the concepts of the ancient Maya. To believe this person because he is of Mayan descent is called racism. That is where you believe something due to a person's heritage.

When MrXYZ refers to the Mayans it is understood that he refers to those that developed the Long Count calendar and not some modern wannabees cashing in on the 2012 hoax.


He plotted the graph starting at the big bang.

Where did you get that idea? The graph was fudged to fit 2012. The original writings from McKenna refer to a date preceding the end of the long count. The plot was set to match the dropping of the bomb on Japan. He did not start his hoax with an unknown point in the distant past.


Because he himself has said it was purely a coincidence that the graph ended there, and that he did not know of the Maya until after his graph was completed.

He moved the end point to match the long count?


it is simply a theory like any other.

Maybe you use theory to mean any idea, but many people including me use it to mean an explanation for facts. Theories are based on facts. TWZ is not.


Do you have any proof he adjusted the graph to fit the 2012 date?



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by m0rphine
 



You've been conned into thinking that this person in the video is reporting on the concepts of the ancient Maya. To believe this person because he is of Mayan descent is called racism. That is where you believe something due to a person's heritage.


That's rich. Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is a 13th Generation Maya Quiche Elder. He is lying though, because you say so.


Where did you get that idea? The graph was fudged to fit 2012. The original writings from McKenna refer to a date preceding the end of the long count. The plot was set to match the dropping of the bomb on Japan. He did not start his hoax with an unknown point in the distant past.


It starts with the big bang and ends with the Omega point. I would tell you to do some research but you are so stuck in your ways that ignorance fuels your only (weak) responses. I have also never seen any "original McKenna writings" that refer to what you are stating. The big bang is not "unknown," it is commonly agreed upon in modern science that this happened around 15 billion years ago.

I can tell by your posting history how much you like to disagree with everything under the sun, and if they don't agree with you they are racist, stupid, etc, but I will continue this conversation with the respectful person I am addressing who has not resorted to ad hominem insults. At least have some respect in that manner and don't butt in to where it seems you are overly desperate. Your first reply to me was ignored for a reason. Thanks for your input regardless. Peace.
edit on 20-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by m0rphine
 



That's rich. Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is a 13th Generation Maya Quiche Elder. He is lying though, because you say so.

I never said he was lying. That is your preposterous statement. I said anyone that believes him because of his heritage is a racist.


It starts with the big bang and ends with the Omega point.

That has nothing to do with TWZ. Had you actually done any research on TWZ you'd know that. Harping about an event 13.75Ba contiues to show you know nothing about TWZ.


and if they don't agree with you they are racist, stupid, etc,

Please take the time to read.

If you believe what that person said because of his racial heritage then you are a racist. Making decision based on race makes a person a racist. Thankfully that's frowned upon these days.

Who is this Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj?
I believe the correct name for the group is "Consejo de Ancianos Mayas." The translation you provided is commonly found on the web, but may not be accurate. It is closer to "Council of Maya Ancients". He probably is of Mayan descent - most people in that region are. He is making money off of New Age claims. Bully for him! Why should frauds and hoaxers in the US keep all of the money. Don Alejandro should get his slice from the gullible pie, too.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZNo...stereo is saying it's all nonsense because it has been proven wrong. There's a ridiculous amount of blatantly wrong claims when it comes to TWZ, and THAT'S why people don't take it seriously if they bother to apply rationality and logic. It's not a mere lack of evidence, it's the fact that it's simply wrong


Ok so here's my point, very simply:

Don't just sit there saying this is wrong, that's wrong, this can't possibly be right.

Actually post examples and why you think they are wrong.

Then you will be engaging in a discussion rather than just nay saying everything.

Also, keep in mind we are all just people posting on the internet about a theory we don't understand. Just throwing out ideas. Our interpretations being wrong hardly prove the theory wrong, it proves our interpretation wrong. Likewise we can't actually prove the theory right by doing this, so the whole thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

Lastly, realise you are ONLY arguing from the perspective of "rationality and logic" (i.e. Science), which is nowhere near the full picture and has also countless times been proven wrong.

"What humans can see, hear, touch, taste and smell is less than one millionth of reality" - From an Incubus song, not sure where it came from originally.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Cecilofs
 



Actually post examples and why you think they are wrong.

Read the thread and learn this for yourself.


Also, keep in mind we are all just people posting on the internet about a theory we don't understand.

It's not a theory, it's a wild eyed claim not based on evidence.


Our interpretations being wrong hardly prove the theory wrong, it proves our interpretation wrong. Likewise we can't actually prove the theory right by doing this, so the whole thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If this wild eyed claim is so poorly stated then it is worthless.


Lastly, realise you are ONLY arguing from the perspective of "rationality and logic" (i.e. Science), which is nowhere near the full picture and has also countless times been proven wrong.

Please give an example of "proven wrong."


"What humans can see, hear, touch, taste and smell is less than one millionth of reality" - From an Incubus song, not sure where it came from originally.

This simply tells me that a bad lyric is a bad lyric. So what?



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by m0rphine
 


That has nothing to do with TWZ. Had you actually done any research on TWZ you'd know that. Harping about an event 13.75Ba contiues to show you know nothing about TWZ.


I can't tell if you're sincere, or just trolling.

The big bang would be considered the first "novel" event on the timewave. TWZ does not begin without the big bang. Big bang = beginning of time wave, Omega point = end of timewave. Get it? I can tell you are upset because it did not begin with Hiroshima like you claimed.



www.december212012.com...




Please take the time to read.

If you believe what that person said because of his racial heritage then you are a racist. Making decision based on race makes a person a racist. Thankfully that's frowned upon these days.


It couldn't possibly be the fact he is a Maya elder, could it?



Who is this Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj?
I believe the correct name for the group is "Consejo de Ancianos Mayas." The translation you provided is commonly found on the web, but may not be accurate. It is closer to "Council of Maya Ancients". He probably is of Mayan descent - most people in that region are. He is making money off of New Age claims. Bully for him! Why should frauds and hoaxers in the US keep all of the money. Don Alejandro should get his slice from the gullible pie, too.


Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj would be his name. I don't know what 'translation' you are speaking of. He is an elder of the K'iche' (Quiché) people, one of the Maya ethnic groups (en.wikipedia.org...). He is actually a high priest (Ajk'ij) born in Quetzaltenago, Guatemala
edit on 21-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Can we stop talking about who's right or who's wrong and just talk about...let me think here...the actual Timewave? I came to this thread looking for updated info, not to see the same four people take almost 200 pages to bicker with each other.

My question: Have there been an significant developments/hits/whatever with TWZ in the past few months? I don't feel like tracing arguments back for a hundred pages until I find actual info. Sorry if I sound aggravated. I just waded through every word of about 20 pages, to no avail.
edit on 21-2-2012 by writtenimage because: spelling error



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by writtenimage
 


There is a resonance for the Costa Crociere cruise ship sinking of January 2012.
Than I signaled increasing novelty from January 27 2012 to February 2 2012. Next big novel point will be on March 9- 11.

JAN 26:

December 3 2011 - resonance - August 1945, Japan nuked
8 Months before, about 22 days more - March 11 2011, Japan nuclear crisis begins

We are in direct contact with October 18 2012 today, and the october resonance is 9/11.
What happened today?
What was the other big event before 9/11? July 14 2000 solar flare.
On January 21 we had a pretty much big solar flare.

Today: Explosion leads to 3 building collapsing in Rio de Janeiro
What is the first recollection witnesses had? " It was like the world trade center " .

I think we are going to discover more and more complexity in the way time works.
The news story in Rio de Janeiro is so much interesting. Those buildings had economic ties to wtc. I suppose we have our " little 9/11 resonance " right now

JAN 13 EVENT

This is a big hit for timewave zero:

January 13 2012 - Concordia cruise ship sinking
January 31 1953 - Princess Victoria ship sinking

The 1953 event happened on the Irish Sea, because of a serious storm. The victims were 133.
Both ships were built 6 years before the accident.

So many weird synchronicities between my life and Ireland this week. I am following a series of book about time travel, and the starring character is Irish and was on the Titanic ship.
Also, on the 13th, I was reading another book about an Irish family.

This event happened on same day with this resonance of 1953. No delays.

Than I suggested that the Europe freeze winter period of early February is the resonance of the freaky February 1956.



edit on 21-2-2012 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2012 by Zagari because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by m0rphine
 



The big bang would be considered the first "novel" event on the timewave. TWZ does not begin without the big bang. Big bang = beginning of time wave, Omega point = end of timewave. Get it? I can tell you are upset because it did not begin with Hiroshima like you claimed.

The plot you show has the big bang 12 billion years before it happened. Kind of weird.


It couldn't possibly be the fact he is a Maya elder, could it?

So you are a racist. It's ok to admitting being a racist. Many people are and think that being a "positive racist" is somehow ok. It's not. You choose to express a racist attitude. Go for it and be frowned upon.

I provided the name of the group and the translation. Go back and read the post.



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by writtenimage
 


Sorry, but I will continue to point out the ludicrous nature of TWZ and how it has failed every prediction posted.



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Zagari
 



There is a resonance for the Costa Crociere cruise ship sinking of January 2012.
Than I signaled increasing novelty from January 27 2012 to February 2 2012. Next big novel point will be on March 9- 11.

There is a good example of a TWZ failure. Nothing novel happened in the last so-called novel period.


December 3 2011 - resonance - August 1945, Japan nuked
8 Months before, about 22 days more - March 11 2011, Japan nuclear crisis begins

We are in direct contact with October 18 2012 today, and the october resonance is 9/11.
What happened today?
What was the other big event before 9/11? July 14 2000 solar flare.
On January 21 we had a pretty much big solar flare.

Today: Explosion leads to 3 building collapsing in Rio de Janeiro
What is the first recollection witnesses had? " It was like the world trade center " .

I think we are going to discover more and more complexity in the way time works.
The news story in Rio de Janeiro is so much interesting. Those buildings had economic ties to wtc. I suppose we have our " little 9/11 resonance " right now

Of course we have to have the retrofitting process where predictions are made backwards and not forwards. This is just more of the grasping at straws and forcing connections. Can we all say apophenia?


JAN 13 EVENT

This is a big hit for timewave zero:

January 13 2012 - Concordia cruise ship sinking
January 31 1953 - Princess Victoria ship sinking

The 1953 event happened on the Irish Sea, because of a serious storm. The victims were 133.
Both ships were built 6 years before the accident.

So let's see what is really a match and what is not instead of only mentioning connections.

Victoria in a storm Concordia in good weather
Victoria in daylight Concordia at night
Victoria 133 people died, which was well over half Concordia 29+ people died, almost everyone survives
Victoria was on a short trip Concordia on a multiday trip
Victoria was a ferry Concordia was a cruise ship
Victoria was in open waters Concordia ran aground due to the decisions of the captain
Victoria 6 hours from dock to order to abandon ship

About the only thing in common is a ship sinking.

Here are more maritime disasters to allow connecting the dots in even more bizarre ways.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by m0rphine
 


None of the old Mayan remains state that any "change of consciousness" or other nonsense happens. The calendar simply enters a new phase, like we do every year.

As for McKenna messing with his graph to "make it fit", I didn't make that up...in fact, here's an interview with him where he admits exactly that: LINK

The bellow video shows how he messed with the graph "to make it fit":



3...2...1...until Zagari starts raging because people post facts that point out what nonsense TWZ is. Looking forward to him bitching about the guy doing the video without ever bothering to refute the points made in that clip





It depends on your definition of reliable outcome. I see this as being purely subjective.


"Subjective" data by its very definition isn't reliable. There's people who believe the planet is only 10k years old, it's their subjective claim. Luckily, there's enough sane people around who bother to actually looking up FACTS and OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE to make it abundantly clear what nonsense that 10k year claim is. The same is true for TWZ, it doesn't hold up to objective evidence and testing.




He plotted the graph starting at the big bang. The events afterwards that corresponded with the graph are huge events that happened to have changed human history and the way we look and interact with our world. Do you have any proof he adjusted the graph to fit the 2012 date? Because he himself has said it was purely a coincidence that the graph ended there, and that he did not know of the Maya until after his graph was completed.


I take it you never read any of his books...because the above is clearly wrong. As much as I believe him to be wrong, I did actually read one of his books...waiting at airports makes you buy stupid stuff





He did not claim this is what happened, it is simply a theory like any other. I personally find it an intriguing idea and don't see why it could not be true until I see some scientific data proving otherwise. It would make sense if you have ever experienced the effects. On this note, I would also say there's some kind of connection between psilocybin and telepathy, although this is irrelevant to the topic.


It's EXACTLY what he said. And as stereo pointed out, a theory requires objective evidence as backup...and his claims have NONE.

For crying out loud, he even states that in his OWN BOOK (Food of the Gods: the Search for the original Tree of Knowledge). It's not as if I'm making this crap up, it's HIM who says those very things...and he's obviously wrong as anyone who ever studied biology or watched nature programs knows.
edit on 21-2-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by m0rphine
 


The plot you show has the big bang 12 billion years before it happened. Kind of weird.


There is no specific date that the big bang took place. It is narrowed down within a time frame of 10-20 billion years ago. This is in that time frame. Even if it is plotted at around 23 billion years ago, what difference does this really make in the grand scheme of things? None. This does not change the fact that you were wrong and it does not start at Hiroshima. Hiroshima was used as a reference point. The math was then used to work backwards. If TWZ is meant to show how time functions, it must include the point in which time started.



So you are a racist. It's ok to admitting being a racist. Many people are and think that being a "positive racist" is somehow ok. It's not. You choose to express a racist attitude. Go for it and be frowned upon.


This in no way makes me a racist. You attempting to take this as far off topic as you can is pretty sad. It just so happens the group that started this were Mayan. If getting information from a Maya high priest, someone who has had this passed down for 13 generations, doesn't make sense, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I should just take your word for it. Would that make me racist as well?



I provided the name of the group and the translation. Go back and read the post.


What the hell were you exactly translating again? It is completely irrelevant. I gave you the name of the ethnic group he belongs to and you are trying to deny that?
edit on 21-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by m0rphine
 



There is no specific date that the big bang took place. It is narrowed down within a time frame of 10-20 billion years ago. This is in that time frame. Even if it is plotted at around 23 billion years ago, what difference does this really make in the grand scheme of things? None.

What does it matter? Simple. It matters because TWZ is supposed to be a mathematical plot. It is not supposed to be whimsy which I claim it is. So if this plot can't even predict the beginning then it is wrong.

The big bang was 13.75 billion years ago. It was not 10 or 20 or whatever billion years ago.
en.wikipedia.org...


This does not change the fact that you were wrong and it does not start at Hiroshima. Hiroshima was used as a reference point.

Exactly. The reference point is the start of the plot and then it extends outward from there. Some plots use 0. This plot uses Hiroshima. Why were the references points moved? Simple. To cash in on 2012.


The math was then used to work backwards. If TWZ is meant to be a theory to describe how time functions, it must include the point in which time started.

And there you state it clearly. The start is the reference and then you work out from there. There is no need to go back to the "start of time". That is you guess.

Again, TWZ is not a theory. It is an unsubstantiated construction with no supporting evidence.


This in no way makes me a racist.

You decision was made based on race. That makes you a racist.


If getting information from a Maya high priest, someone who has had this passed down for 13 generations, doesn't make sense, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I should just take your word for it. Would that make me racist as well?

The info this person is passing along was not passed down for generations. It is not based on anything having to do with the mayans or Mayan lore. Most of what this person is passing along is New Age claims from the US. That has been documented by Jenkins.

No, taking my word would not make you a racist since you have no idea what my race is.


What the hell were you exactly translating again? It is completely irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant. The name of the organization that the person in question claims to head was mistranslated in other to pretend that his position was in some way representative of Mayan beliefs.

The fact is that modern Mayan beliefs are not the same as pre-Columbian Mayan beliefs. Yet there are those that think that being of Mayan heritage in some way predisposes a person to have more incite into the lore of the ancient Maya.
edit on 21-2-2012 by stereologist because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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If anyone had bothered to look at that preposterous plot of TWZ which got the big bang wrong by a factor of 2 you'd see that the TWZ in that plot shows that the big bang event was not novel!

That is hilarious!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by m0rphine
 



What does it matter? Simple. It matters because TWZ is supposed to be a mathematical plot. It is not supposed to be whimsy which I claim it is. So if this plot can't even predict the beginning then it is wrong.


So because science can not predict the exact beginning of the big bang, then that theory is wrong also?



The big bang was 13.75 billion years ago. It was not 10 or 20 or whatever billion years ago.
en.wikipedia.org...


Notice the word "approximate" in there?

10-20 billion years ago is the time frame given. Unfortunately until science progresses we will not be able to know exactly when.
science.nationalgeographic.com...



Again, TWZ is not a theory. It is an unsubstantiated construction with no supporting evidence.




the·o·ry/ˈTHēərē/
Noun:

A set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based: "a theory of education"; "music theory".


TWZ is based off of numerical values of the Chinese I Ching. These same values from the I Ching were also used by German philosopher and mathematician Gottfried Leibniz to create the binary system which was a major contribution to computer science. The I Ching was also highly regarded by Carl Jung the founder of analytical psychology. Yes, TWZ is a theory, whether you like it or not. Surely you would have known this if you did the research you claimed to have done.



You decision was made based on race. That makes you a racist.


This sounds like psychological projection.
My decision was made due to the status he holds in this particular ancient group highly regarded for their art, architecture, mathematical and astronomical systems and contributions. The Mayans are not even a race. They would be an ethnic group.

And regardless...

Definition for racist:
Web definitions:
a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


Perhaps you're the racist? I do not believe any race is "superior," although this might be the case for you.



The info this person is passing along was not passed down for generations. It is not based on anything having to do with the mayans or Mayan lore. Most of what this person is passing along is New Age claims from the US. That has been documented by Jenkins.


Actually it is, you're just giving an opinion.



No, taking my word would not make you a racist since you have no idea what my race is.


From your post history, I have already inferred that you are an old white guy.



It is not irrelevant. The name of the organization that the person in question claims to head was mistranslated in other to pretend that his position was in some way representative of Mayan beliefs.


What was mistranslated, once again? While he is part of the Mayan council of elders, I don't recall ever mentioning this. I do, however, recall mentioning that he is part of the Quiché people which is a particular Mayan group native to the central highlands of Guatemala, not an organization. This was not mentioned in the video. There were no "mistranslations"



The fact is that modern Mayan beliefs are not the same as pre-Columbian Mayan beliefs. Yet there are those that think that being of Mayan heritage in some way predisposes a person to have more incite into the lore of the ancient Maya.


They are the same, seeing as these beliefs are passed down. I would like you to point out specific examples proving this claim.
edit on 22-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
If anyone had bothered to look at that preposterous plot of TWZ which got the big bang wrong by a factor of 2 you'd see that the TWZ in that plot shows that the big bang event was not novel!

That is hilarious!


What's even more hilarious is that you can't infer that before the big bang is taking place on the graph it is referring to the singularity.

The huge drop off would be the novelty of the big bang.
edit on 22-2-2012 by m0rphine because: (no reason given)



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