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$11.4 trillion national debt? no, how about $100 trillion

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posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 07:42 AM
Is the government playing with their numbers when they come to adding up how much is our deficit?.

Well it seems that 11.4 trillion is what has been sold to us, but the government is not adding the extras in that amount.

In a piece written for The Wall Street Journal Laffer points out that even our astounding $11.4 trillion national debt is a gross understatement. If you account for all unfunded liabilities – Medicare, military pensions, etc. – the total may be as much as $100 trillion.

At the same time we also face the challenge of runaway inflation of the money supply. Since the onset of this crisis the response from the Federal Reserve has been to pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the U.S. economy. According to Laffer’s calculations, the money supply has grown over 100 percent during the past year, meaning the value of each piece of that supply has been cut roughly in half

So as usual everything is just deceiving, what all this means? that we may be closer to inflation that many wants to believe.

No matter what the promises has been of not raising taxes, tax increases is the only way to help deal with the deficit.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 07:54 AM
Thats pretty scary..

Nothing a decent sized war and a new currency wont fix though.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 08:00 AM
reply to post by Dermo

Yes, when I read that article I was amazed, you are right raising taxes at this stage with the economic crisis and now the new job market crisis is not going to help at all.

When you read things like this . . . it just makes you wonder how in the world we are still functioning as a nation.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 08:18 AM
Liabilities are not debt, they are liabilities.

If you want to combine them then you also need to add in assets if you want to give a real picture. The US assets are HUGE and worth far more than the liabilities.

The issue is that the US has no intention of giving up any assets to cover those liabilities, for example, we will not be selling off our Air Craft Carriers to pay for Social Security.

So while we can not cover those liabilities with new revenue (taxes) the US us hardly 100 trillion dollars in the hole. We are just shy of $12 trillion in the red, which is bad enough.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:14 AM
reply to post by Quest

You have to understand that the biggest money suckers are the defense and health care.

This expenditures are on going, but because they are here to stay they are not really added to the deficit.

But you have seen Obamas trying to tackle the health care problems with a reform, that tells you how bad the government wants to stop the leaching.

But they don't really want to touch the defense budget at least not for now.

Right now the Federal Reserve has been pumping hundred of billions of dollars into the economy to keep the markets going.

They are compare to a runaway train and looks that while Bernanke has been telling the Government to stop spending they don't stop printing

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:48 AM
this reminds me of the federal bank just losing 9 trillion dollars oh yeah thats pretty easy to do i imagine, they act like its losing a quid down the back of the sofa, maybe some lucky person will find a jungle full of money or something.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:52 AM
reply to post by steven barnes

I believe also that more has been lost during the war with Iraq and Afghanistan, after all pallets of billions of dollars shipped to Iraq has been going missing for years.

But hey somebody is sipping pina coladas in caiman Island, I am sure of it.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:10 AM
reply to post by Quest

This is not entirely correct as these liabilities must be paid - further the assets of the US would not cover this as the combined value of the global stock markets is 60trillion, world GDP is only about 40 trillion......

Further the assets such as aircraft carriers are not OWNED ....

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:15 AM
reply to post by audas

Interesting, I always wanted to understand how the US build carries and air planes and how they are either owned of leased.

Which one is the one that most represent this issue.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:19 AM
S and F friend!

It is coming down that the figures the govt. releases are not true in any sense. From the unemployment figures to everything else.

I find it amazing, that people still don't want to acknowledge what is really happening and where the country is going to be going.

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:26 AM
reply to post by questioningall

Is all about damage control, I find amusing when I read articles like this one and then read on how the government is trying so hard to find ways to control the masses.

This Thread tells all,

Pentagon Multiple Choice: Dissenting Americans are Terrorists

posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:41 AM

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by Quest

This is not entirely correct as these liabilities must be paid - further the assets of the US would not cover this as the combined value of the global stock markets is 60trillion, world GDP is only about 40 trillion......

Further the assets such as aircraft carriers are not OWNED ....

Yes, liabilities must be paid but that doesn't make them debt. As for the assets you then go on to talk about GDP which has nothing to do with assets. GDP is a yearly product, not the sum of all wealth (assets).

The liabilities are over decades, and the GDP is yearly. The debt is a problem. The Liabilities are a problem. Confusing the two and falsely applying the rules of economics and accounting is not a good way to tackle them. People should be more aware of how our systems work... so they not only understand that there is a problem but can accurately define it.

Also, can you cite a source on the carriers? Are they leased?

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:43 PM
i think that the united states will borrow money from anyone, no matter how much. why? what makes these countries," we borrow from", think we are going to pay them back? all it takes is a stroke of a pen. the biggest write off in history. we owe you nothing, bye, whatever. well, what comes next after that, well war. war with the usa. i wonder if the people we borrow from will be able to sustain themselves after they war with us. the stock market will crash big time. i wonder what the world will say to that. this is why the usa keeps on borrowing money from the others, they scared of the consciquences of the markets. go usa keep borrowing. hey write me out a check for a million or two ok. help us lowely people out here. we know how to spend, just like you. you greedy whoever you are just take take take take take till there is nothing left or till someone gets pushed hard enough and is big enough. like another country to actually do something about it.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:33 PM
reply to post by pudgeego

That is why our "lenders" are forming alliances with other nations that are not so much friendly with the US they now have the BRIC and US is not even invited.

China, Russia and India are spread their reach with nations in South America, why do you think China and Japan are now buying oil from Iran? even with the sanctions US has imposed on Iran the countries in question careless.

No only that but they are starting to get away from doing business on dollars.

Iran doesn't accept US dollars since 2008 for their oil.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:40 PM
Marg, great job of helping get closer to the truth. I know you voted Obama, but even you have come to realize that Obama and ALL the clowns in Washington are deceiving us big time and are only making a bigger hole for us to dig ourselves out of.

I agree with what you say about taxes being increased. However, it still will do no good, because once they collect more taxes, they will merely spend more of what they don't have.

No matter the party, spending is just out of control.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:44 PM
reply to post by jam321

Yes spending is out of control that was the first thing that I noticed about Obama right after he took office all those good ideas of "for the American people first, went down the drain with my hopes of him after he dump the American people for corporate America.

That alone tells the real truth behind our for "change" president.

Our nations now survives on deficit and the printing of dollars for the incredible growing government of Obama.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:23 PM

Here we stand more than a year into a grave economic crisis with a projected budget deficit of 13% of GDP.

With U.S. GDP at about $14 trillion

Which means we're spending $1,820,000,000,000 more than we have.

So how are they coming up with 100 trillion?

I can use funny math too: Lets say I make 10$ an hour (under the table, no taxes). How much money do I have?

Oh yea, I forgot to mention how many hours i'll be working. Likewise, the article forgot to mention over what span of time the liabilities are being projected at.

In fact, if you project 100 years into the future, 1.8 trillion (current deficit) can become 200 trillion. If you project 150 years, it can be 300 trillion.

This article doesn't stand out as being of the highest quality.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:31 PM
reply to post by Kaytagg

You also forget that the predictions of the deficit are also misguided and manipulated by our own government as to keep the numbers not as bad as they are.

When was the last time that our own government has been honest to us the people that vote for them.

It has not been an honest president in along time and neither the trash of financial advisers that they surround themselves with.

If they were honest about numbers we would not be in the financial crisis we are today. Right?

BTW how honest is the federal Reserve in their numbers when the Congress can not even audit them But Bernanke has been warning the Obama administration about spending.

The same way that you do not find the article of highest quality neither I find the government given numbers of the highest honesty.

Occurs is a matter of opinion.


posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:39 PM
reply to post by Kaytagg

Would you like to go over the numbers given by a member of the Federal Reserve Bank?

Add together the unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security, and it comes to $99.2 trillion over the infinite horizon. Traditional Medicare composes about 69 percent, the new drug benefit roughly 17 percent and Social Security the remaining 14 percent.

A little info on Mr. Fisher

Richard W. Fisher assumed the office of president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas on April 4, 2005. In this role, Fisher serves as a member of the Federal Open Market Committee, the Federal Reserve’s principal monetary policymaking group.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:45 PM
reply to post by marg6043

How honest is the MSM? Specifically, the WSJ? Not very. They lie like hell.

Here is a blog run by Dean Baker, which focuses on misleading and sometimes completely untrue economic articles in the news.

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