Here is why God doesn't exist.

I found this on facebook, thought it would be a good read for the rest of the ATS users:

-------------------------------------------

Topic: Here is why God doesn't exist. The hell am I reading 600+ pages of your crappy arguments. My logic is flawless.

Dominic Hinkins (Cambridge) wrote on June 11, 2008 at 11:18am

1. Suffering exists.
2. If God exists and is worth worshiping, he doesn't want us to suffer, and can stop suffering at will
3. It's not because of our sins because babies also suffer and haven't had time to sin
4. It's not original sin because animals suffer too, and they haven't done anything.
5. Therefore, God doesn't exist or is a masochistic bastard. QED.

(Oh, and if you're going to say FREE WILL, then may I remind you that if God can't create a perfect world AND STILL have free will for us, he can't do everything. Nor does the existence of pleasure require pain so we 'appreciate it more': If God said it didn't have to, it wouldn't have to)

NEXT ARGUMENT: YOUR specific religion isn't the right one
1. The only evidence you have for your holy book/religion being worth more than someone else's holy book is that you are convinced it's so
2. Lots of people are convinced by lots of different holy books/religions
3. they can't all be right
4. therefore it's possible to be utterly convinced and wrong
5. the chances of your religion being the right one--it has an equal chance as ALL other possible religions--are a billion to one
6. your religion probably isn't right.

NEXT ARGUMENT: the world doesn't need your God to exist.
1. Before the big bang there was no time and therefore no cause is necessary
2. If the universe requires a creator because it's complex, so does God
3. If God doesn't require a creator because he's always been there, then it would be simpler for the universe to have always been there since it's a random collection of energy and not a sentient all powerful timeless bearded man
4. We evolved, deal with it

CONCLUSION
There might be a God, but there probably isn't, and not the one you thought of, and he obviously doesn't care much about us...He may be skinny, shirtless and hung on a cross, but he's still santa claus.

-----------------------------

Thoughts?

To me, God is the manifestation of the ego's need for security of the mind. In other words, most humans do not know and understand the great mysteries of our universe and it's creation. That is why they tend to believe in a higher power, that created everything.

So beliefs secure the mind, and it's fine. You cannot take beliefs away from anyone. For the few who "know", they can share, but can't transpose their experiences onto anyone, for it would become a philosophy of some sort.

What are your thoughts?

You quoted what was said, but did not add anything of your own...

Personally, I don't believe in the "One god" or gods idea, but hey I could be wrong. No way to prove it either way.

So best case, go with your gut... and enjoy life the best way you can.

a pretty weak argument at disproving God if you ask me..

JMHO though..

Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs.

reply to post by Nyte Angel


There is one major flaw in your second argument. All religions CAN be right, it's not a stretch to believe that all religions sprouted from the same source, and have been altered and changed through time, like a family tree almost. If you take the time to learn about the various religions of the world, you'll find they are actually quite similar, and aside from minor literal differences, are essentially preaching the same thing.

We are all one, we are all loved by God, God can hold a grudge.

Now if you want to point out the flaws in that logic go ahead, but it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it?

Originally posted by Totakeke
Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs.

^^ that is the best point anyone could ever make, and the main reason I have stayed out of this argument sooooooooooo many times. Who cares?

I believe in God.. and I could care less if someone doesn't. Do I think they are going to go to hell for denying him? Of course not.

I will say in defense of these many threads.. Christians (my fellow Christians at that) have done a poor job by going out and telling everyone they are going to hell for not believing in their God.

My God, my (Christian) God.. I refuse to believe that he is going to turn his back on one of his creations for simply exercising their "God given right" to question everything and form individual opinions.

the only thing i wish to achieve is having an OBE, because if who experienced it doesnt lie, there is another dimension in which we go..for me telling you the truth..it doesnt matter much god exists or not..all i want is that when i die i go to this wonderful dimension and not passed all my life working and than puff its all gone

hehe hence god resides within your temple.

Elementary my dear Watson.

No really, thats where I thought this piece came from. elementary school.

I expect more from a cambridge man. I beleive in a sense of god, ... yet can make a better argument than this. Probably while I was driving writing in a notepad with a crayon.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by IntastellaBurst]

reply to post by Nyte Angel

Why do you call yourself Nyte Angel? No God, no angels.
Suffering sure does exist.......the innocent do suffer, I believe the appropriate scripture to be "the sins of the father passes on to the third and fourth generation. You are on the wrong end of the microscope to judge God and his motivations. "the Lord moves in mysterious ways" Bad logic always leads to false answers, you do not have sufficient answers to create or destroy justifications. God cannot be a bastard because He either had no parents or does not exist. I suggest you find someone more intelligent to quote.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel

NEXT ARGUMENT: the world doesn't need your God to exist.
1. Before the big bang there was no time and therefore no cause is necessary
2. If the universe requires a creator because it's complex, so does God
3. If God doesn't require a creator because he's always been there, then it would be simpler for the universe to have always been there since it's a random collection of energy and not a sentient all powerful timeless bearded man
4. We evolved, deal with it

I found a major fault of logic in your universe requires a creator thing (& big bang logic).
Alright suppose god doesn't exist and the big bang theory is real. The thought is a compression of energy and/or light exploded and created the universe... the problem is where did the energy come from? What or who created the energy?
The universe is so complex and mysterious I don't think we'll ever know everything about it. Evolution has flaws in it's logic too, missing links, how did life start here and where did it come from etc...

And to answer why people and animals suffer, well no one knows... why didn't God create a perfect world? Why didn't the universe create perfect life? If God exists he is just as mysterious as the universe we live in. Personally I think if everything was perfect it would be a really boring world and life. If we didn't have suffering then we would be without a lot of our very good songs and movies and stories.

reply to post by Nyte Angel


Okay. God can only exist if God gives you everythiing, you never want for anything. and you are always stupidly happy and nothing ever is bad for you or anyone else or anything else. LOL. Oh, yeah, and a real god would never want to be worshiped.



Whose idea of a god is this. lol.

Let's take a simple look at this. Um..........oh God would create all and never want to be recoginized. LOL. Who has drawn a picture in 1st grade and said, no, I don't want anyone to know I drew it and don't want my parents to put it on the refrigerator.

Like there is anyone in this entire world that wants to do all for everybody and remain anonymous.
Well, maybe someone in our imagination wants absolutely no recogniztion fo anything they ever did. Must be god. eh? NOT.

If I was God and created every freakin thing in the world, I would like someone to acknowledge me. But that's just me, a human. Who the hell knows what a "God" would want?

Okay, just for the sake of "there is no god". It all just happened. Explain that along with why there can't be a god and, really, give me the final answer to all this.

It all just happened. There's no god, no creator, It all just happened and evolution just coincidental happened. From NOTHING. Heh.

Okay. Convince me you are rigtht. And others are wrong. And we always have been, and, uh, er, we just happened. Heh heh heh.

Nobody knows!!! Only, maybe Gawd, or the universe, and in any case, nobody is giving us the answers. All questions about this are moot, if you think you have an answer. However, if you ask questions, that seems okay to me.

Just accept a big bang. Just accept there always was a creator. It's all about faith.

I won't be back to this thread. It's all speculation anyway.If you have the ultimate truth, heh, heh, then U2U me.

Creation is a program/matrix. God is the consciousness that observes it, and in the end is the only observer. That bit within you is your soul etc. Thus, you are currently in the child perspective, meaning you experience this reality, rather than as the father which knows all and to which all observations eventually go to.

As it is a program, virtually anything is possible. This is actually talked about in the bible, although the people at that time had no idea what a program was, or how words and logic can create laws and such. Today, this reality should be punching people in the face.

Robots and AI do not have consciousness, and they are unable to create or understand logic. They simply follow the laws/logic given to it by the programmer, no free will or any of that. Consciousness creates logic, the laws of the universe is logic being followed. God = pure consciousness.

The bible says - "in the beginning there was the word". Well that is also exactly true of programs. Programs are basically words used in a way that create logic. If and then statements etc. From the word in the bible comes creation. From the word of a program the program is created. Coincidence? No.

If you create a program, it doesn't come to life until consciousness observes it. Until that moment, it's just patterns going about. Take a video game and just run it over and over, and it's just those patterns running. Not until you play the game does it really come to life. Thus, the "spirit of god fills creation and brings it to life".

There is more understanding than you could probably realize.

But hey, keep avoiding the understanding and allowing other people to define the topic for you.

There is no fundamental external reality that we can directly perceive.



[edit on 16-6-2009 by tobiascore]

reply to post by Nyte Angel

all your fantastically intelectual statements have convinced me. i definetly
see the light now. shocked and utterly astounded i stand in the light of
your truth and wisdom. such an ecology w/ the english language i've
never heard before. on the other hand
lmao sorry bout your luck, but you really havn't a clue.
and your thread dosn't even merit a

reply to post by Nyte Angel


It seems like I see a new thread like this at least once a month here, why do people always try to cram their own beliefs down other people's throats?

I never understood why people like to act all righteous and say if God exists then he's a cruel and twisted individual not worthy of your worship. Think about it for a second, do you really think you could make an omnipotent and omnipresent being completely re-evaluate his methodology just because some of his creations are denying him (which, by the way, he already knew it was to be expected)?

Double post, sorry

[edit on 16-6-2009 by JayTaylor]

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

now i can't get that vision out of my head of that happening . some of the things people on this site come up w/. hilarious, over the top.
that was a good one. a crayon .

god i wish i would have said that.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by randyvs]

[edit on 16-6-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


lol@randyvs

Please, OP gave no opinion of his/her own

There is no answer to your question OP, it cannot be proven or dis proven, I'm leaning toward God, just in case...lol