I found this on facebook, thought it would be a good read for the rest of the ATS users:

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Topic: Here is why God doesn't exist. The hell am I reading 600+ pages of your crappy arguments. My logic is flawless.

Dominic Hinkins (Cambridge) wrote on June 11, 2008 at 11:18am

1. Suffering exists.
2. If God exists and is worth worshiping, he doesn't want us to suffer, and can stop suffering at will
3. It's not because of our sins because babies also suffer and haven't had time to sin
4. It's not original sin because animals suffer too, and they haven't done anything.
5. Therefore, God doesn't exist or is a masochistic bastard. QED.

(Oh, and if you're going to say FREE WILL, then may I remind you that if God can't create a perfect world AND STILL have free will for us, he can't do everything. Nor does the existence of pleasure require pain so we 'appreciate it more': If God said it didn't have to, it wouldn't have to)

NEXT ARGUMENT: YOUR specific religion isn't the right one
1. The only evidence you have for your holy book/religion being worth more than someone else's holy book is that you are convinced it's so
2. Lots of people are convinced by lots of different holy books/religions
3. they can't all be right
4. therefore it's possible to be utterly convinced and wrong
5. the chances of your religion being the right one--it has an equal chance as ALL other possible religions--are a billion to one
6. your religion probably isn't right.

NEXT ARGUMENT: the world doesn't need your God to exist.
1. Before the big bang there was no time and therefore no cause is necessary
2. If the universe requires a creator because it's complex, so does God
3. If God doesn't require a creator because he's always been there, then it would be simpler for the universe to have always been there since it's a random collection of energy and not a sentient all powerful timeless bearded man
4. We evolved, deal with it

CONCLUSION
There might be a God, but there probably isn't, and not the one you thought of, and he obviously doesn't care much about us...He may be skinny, shirtless and hung on a cross, but he's still santa claus.

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Thoughts?

To me, God is the manifestation of the ego's need for security of the mind. In other words, most humans do not know and understand the great mysteries of our universe and it's creation. That is why they tend to believe in a higher power, that created everything.

So beliefs secure the mind, and it's fine. You cannot take beliefs away from anyone. For the few who "know", they can share, but can't transpose their experiences onto anyone, for it would become a philosophy of some sort.

What are your thoughts?

You quoted what was said, but did not add anything of your own...

Personally, I don't believe in the "One god" or gods idea, but hey I could be wrong. No way to prove it either way.

So best case, go with your gut... and enjoy life the best way you can.

a pretty weak argument at disproving God if you ask me..

JMHO though..

Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs.

Originally posted by Totakeke
Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs.

^^ that is the best point anyone could ever make, and the main reason I have stayed out of this argument sooooooooooo many times. Who cares?

I believe in God.. and I could care less if someone doesn't. Do I think they are going to go to hell for denying him? Of course not.

I will say in defense of these many threads.. Christians (my fellow Christians at that) have done a poor job by going out and telling everyone they are going to hell for not believing in their God.

My God, my (Christian) God.. I refuse to believe that he is going to turn his back on one of his creations for simply exercising their "God given right" to question everything and form individual opinions.

the only thing i wish to achieve is having an OBE, because if who experienced it doesnt lie, there is another dimension in which we go..for me telling you the truth..it doesnt matter much god exists or not..all i want is that when i die i go to this wonderful dimension and not passed all my life working and than puff its all gone

hehe hence god resides within your temple.

Elementary my dear Watson.

No really, thats where I thought this piece came from. elementary school.

I expect more from a cambridge man. I beleive in a sense of god, ... yet can make a better argument than this. Probably while I was driving writing in a notepad with a crayon.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by IntastellaBurst]

Originally posted by Nyte Angel

NEXT ARGUMENT: the world doesn't need your God to exist.
1. Before the big bang there was no time and therefore no cause is necessary
2. If the universe requires a creator because it's complex, so does God
3. If God doesn't require a creator because he's always been there, then it would be simpler for the universe to have always been there since it's a random collection of energy and not a sentient all powerful timeless bearded man
4. We evolved, deal with it

I found a major fault of logic in your universe requires a creator thing (& big bang logic).
Alright suppose god doesn't exist and the big bang theory is real. The thought is a compression of energy and/or light exploded and created the universe... the problem is where did the energy come from? What or who created the energy?
The universe is so complex and mysterious I don't think we'll ever know everything about it. Evolution has flaws in it's logic too, missing links, how did life start here and where did it come from etc...

And to answer why people and animals suffer, well no one knows... why didn't God create a perfect world? Why didn't the universe create perfect life? If God exists he is just as mysterious as the universe we live in. Personally I think if everything was perfect it would be a really boring world and life. If we didn't have suffering then we would be without a lot of our very good songs and movies and stories.

Creation is a program/matrix. God is the consciousness that observes it, and in the end is the only observer. That bit within you is your soul etc. Thus, you are currently in the child perspective, meaning you experience this reality, rather than as the father which knows all and to which all observations eventually go to.

As it is a program, virtually anything is possible. This is actually talked about in the bible, although the people at that time had no idea what a program was, or how words and logic can create laws and such. Today, this reality should be punching people in the face.

Robots and AI do not have consciousness, and they are unable to create or understand logic. They simply follow the laws/logic given to it by the programmer, no free will or any of that. Consciousness creates logic, the laws of the universe is logic being followed. God = pure consciousness.

The bible says - "in the beginning there was the word". Well that is also exactly true of programs. Programs are basically words used in a way that create logic. If and then statements etc. From the word in the bible comes creation. From the word of a program the program is created. Coincidence? No.

If you create a program, it doesn't come to life until consciousness observes it. Until that moment, it's just patterns going about. Take a video game and just run it over and over, and it's just those patterns running. Not until you play the game does it really come to life. Thus, the "spirit of god fills creation and brings it to life".

There is more understanding than you could probably realize.

But hey, keep avoiding the understanding and allowing other people to define the topic for you.

There is no fundamental external reality that we can directly perceive.



[edit on 16-6-2009 by tobiascore]

Double post, sorry

[edit on 16-6-2009 by JayTaylor]