They mapped the stars and the moon... and we call them cavemen?, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 45 times


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 10:21 AM by Majestic23
Originally posted by Kandinsky
These guys weren't painting the images in total darkness...think about it..how could they? They used torches to see in the darkness. They had expert woodcraft knowledge and would know which wood gives off the least smoke. Juniper ash has been found...


I was reffering to the fact that no natural light would have permeated the places these paintings were taken place. Of course I was not stating they did them without the aid of torches. I was illustarting how hard it was for them the travel to, find, crawl through and take their equipment and palettes, risk attack by bears, and complete the most advanced artistic works of the time in darkness where you couldant see your hand infront of your face. Some have suggested the images were made as they were in order to become animated in the flickering torchlight. This is very tenous though and takes no account for artists trying to explain altered states.

Originally posted by Kandinsky'Altered states of conscious' were probable. Humans have a tradition of using psychotropics going back thousands of years and modern isolated tribes continue he practice. The question you need to ask, is how could hallucinations provide advances in science? Improving stone tools or hunting methods would come from trial and error.


Not just probable but highly likely. Aside from the running themes that I already mentioned that continue to be reported, albiet in a slightly differant form to this very day. There are also these to consider...

The depictions of people dancing in circular formation. Many reports of fairies, timeslips, alien abduction mention beings dancing in circles to create a vortex and manipulate space time.

The shamens who created these images themselves used to do ritualistic dances for many hours until they entered...altered states of consciousness.

Or how about another running theme of these cave paintings? Children and babies being taken and or swapped with the beings depicted in flying craft. Nearly every single UFO abduction case has this theme.

Note the first versions of Santa Claus in the Pagen lineage used to....
steal normal human babies and replace them with goblins....what else about Farther Christmas.? How does he enter a house? Through a portal. Why is his suit red and white? Fly agarics produce altered states. How does he travel? How would a person from thosands of years ago describe a flying craft?

To your other point it is clear that around 35,000 something happened to humanity that was seriously important, an accelleration that could not have been brought about by incrimental technology changes.

Why exactly do altered states = explosions of info? Because you reach contact with those that know all. So many abduction stories are there that describe aliens or interdimensional beings as teachers. stories of information being downloaded into brains and books that held the answer to everything.

Originally posted by KandinskyHand prints like the ones you link are found across Europe and Africa and look that way due to the means of creation. The artist would chew ochre and ash until he had a mouthful of red 'paint.' Then he would blow it across his hand and create the shapes you see. Resourceful fellas...and their breath after this must have smelled wonderful


I know how they are made. The question is why are they made. If you want to believe people for whom everyday survival was a constant job spent so much energy on these thing because they were like infants at playschool, then be my guest. Or you could look at all the connective points and put them together and come up with a perfectly reasonable explaination... as long as you are willing to open your mind.


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 11:31 AM by cryptovariable
reply to post by MattMulder


The bible is all astro-shamanic-theology. Thinking it was written by phonies is a slight to yourself and the authors.

The secret was hidden from you within fables, hit the books and the cipher will light up like a arrow pointing to heaven.


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 12:47 PM by TheTilde
reply to post by SolarDeity


Thankyou very much for the links.
It's absolutely worth reading.
cheers

TheTilde


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 02:54 PM by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by 2theC


I'm thinking that we called them "Cave Men" simply because they lived in caves. The artwork was adorning their livingroom walls, wasn't it?


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 03:23 PM by RuneSpider
reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar


Thing is, they were nomadic. They probably didn't, or very rarely livied in caves. It seems to represent more or a religious type endeavor with the art.

I remember a archeologist who remarked how powerful it was, to him, to see where a fellow had thousands of years ago marked his hand print on a wall in a cave that is now submerged.
He said it was just so incredible to see something that very clearly said "I was here!" in a cave that hadn't been touch by us for so long.


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 03:47 PM by Jim Scott
reply to post by MattMulder


Religion a joke? Well, let's see. Here's a photo of earth: www.icis.com...

Do you suppose that you might know less than 5% of all the knowledge in the world, considering that much of it may be in foreign languages? Would you consider that, in the 95%+ that you do not know, there may be evidence for a God? If there is a God, and if He made the entire universe, do you think that any modifications to Earth would be a problem for Him? Do you think, just maybe, He could have made this world with the ability to believe, scientifically, either it is 6000 years old or billions of years old? If so, wouldn't he be giving you a choice to believe Him, when He says it's 6000 years old, or to not believe Him? After all, if all the scientific evidence said it was 6000 years old, you would not have a choice to believe or disbelieve---it would be evident.

Why would He give you a choice? Let's see what He says: (Deut 13) "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

Additionally, the New Testament does not say science opposes Christianity. It says quite the opposite. It says the science is falsely claimed to oppose Christianity (I Ti 6:20). Of course, there are over a thousand scientists risking their jobs to say they don't believe in the theory of evolution.

Taking the above quote from Deut, let's see how that breaks down to our modern times:



    First, a prophet gives you a sign or wonder. That would be like a person in authority giving you a wonderful new fact, with the accompanying phrase about how it supports his prophecy or theory.
    Two, the wonderful new fact is supported by more scientific research, just like the scientist said it would be.
    Three, the wonderful new fact that is supported causes you to leave your belief in God and to follow after another belief.


Sounds like a perfect fit, to me.

Let's see what is "Gods rebuttal" that will help to support the Christian on his way to believing in God. In John 1:3, we see that Jesus made all things. Therefore, we can conclude that He created the heavens and the earth. It would be safe to say that the creation would be a miracle, to you and me. Especially if it were in 6 days. Now, fast forward to the life of Jesus with us. In the New Testament, we see the first miracle in his earthly life is stated in scripture at John 2:11 was turning water into wine. Most scan over this as a cheap parlor trick, but to the Christian it is all-important. Let us compare the two "first" miracles -- one as God before the worlds were made, and one as one of us.

How many days did it take to create the worlds? Six
How many waterpots of water were turned to wine? Six
How were the worlds made, aged or new? Aged
How was the wine made, new or aged? Aged
What was the name of the town where the water was made into wine? Cana. What is the meaning of the term Cana? To create, build.

You can draw whatever conclusion you wish, but to a person of faith, this is more evidence that God did things just as He said. Luckily, He is not forcing us to believe it or do as He says. You have a choice. You can love God, or not. If you love Him, you will do what He says, and you will believe Him.

You don't have to follow after the teachings of men. Many are out for the money, indirectly, and many are doing good works from a charitable heart. I do not judge them for their deeds, God takes care of that. But to the unbeliever, it is a myriad of labyrinths to pass through if they are not well-read (without someone interpreting for them). I suggest you read the KJV bible and not the others. It is the most accurate, and does not include the anti-Christian doctrines of the Gnostics as do most other Bible versions. For example, the Catholic bible and the NIV include the Gnostics scriptures, the Alexandrian texts, which even the New Testament authors stated were in opposition to the Christians.

Take care, see you on ATS.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Jim Scott]


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 03:55 PM by nunya13
reply to post by Jim Scott


I've always thought along those exact same lines. I often wonder what people 10,000 ahead of us will say about the way we crapped all over nature and the Earth. (I mean figuratively...well I guess literally too!).

Will they be tearing down our buildings made of concrete and steel and trying to figure out what to do with all the crap we left behind?


reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 05:29 PM by Melyanna Tengwesta
reply to post by 2theC



These so called 'cavemen' were more in balance with the Universe and with Mother Nature then our generation is.

They knew more about certain things in the Cosmos then we do. With simple tools they left us such beauty.



reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 05:53 PM by Billy t Hill
reply to post by Melyanna Tengwesta


Yep, and you try living the way they did. The beauty drops off as quick as the charge on an iPhone. These people had hard lives. Yes, they created beautiful art, humans do, but don't mistake art for an easy life. We wouldn't last 10 minutes in their world, just as they would freak out at ours.



reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 06:32 PM by 2theC
the more i read the thread and the more i think about the subject and far removed we are from these ancestors the more i think about the plight of the first people of where i was born.

The first Australians were about the closest we can get to these ancestors. They lived this life, some right up until the late 60's early seventies here.
BUT we have destroyed them. These people, around 300 distinct language groups, were living the same way the people of Lascuax were 15,000 years ago. They painted in caves and engraved on rocks their stories and laws and that is what we have left.
But they are still here. The trouble is in most cases we have cut their link to their ancestors in about 200 years since we ( the "civilised") invaded the land.
It was mostly intentional.

We forced them to stop their traditional ways in most cases, to speak english. We introduced rum, flour and sugar, interupting their diet and drove them away from their lands. Now we make them paint their art for city people to buy and hang in their opulent homes.
We didn't take the time to see what hey had to offer us and we pay the consequence.

Sure we said sorry, officially, but still we ( in Australia) don't seem to be able to accept that they can teach us more about our place than we could ever possibly find out ourselves in our own bumbling way. Because they have the knowledge, the wisdom and the understanding of our natural and spiritual world where we live.

If you knew what i was told at school and in the street about these people , when i was young, it would make you sick.

It wasn't until I worked with these people (with, not for) that I felt in small way the deep connection they have with , not only the natural, but the spiritual environment.
In tangible, physical knowledge of plants and animals and weather and rocks etc and in signs and dreams and thoughts and stories.

We have deliberately corrupted our fellow humans here, and have accepted our ignorance of their ways, as a negative on their part for 200 years.

and the fact that this french woman has through years of research come up with a theory that throws "caveman" back at us for re-examination and can't convince her fellow scientists that we have acquired our knowledge from them, to me stinks. (Then they close the cave, like thats' enough now, your getting to close for comfort)

It is like the collective "EGO" of the civilized world could be damaged to accept this as fact.

The second step, which is now on the horizon, is megalomania, a severe pathological state of consciousness in which the steady withdrawal of love from others and nature gives rise to the deluded mental condition of exalted self-importance. The megalomaniac feels more and more powerful, euphoric, and in control of things (due to an abnormally inflated self-love), while in reality s/he is becoming more and more isolated, impotent, and out of control (due to an excessive loss of love for others and nature). This pathological condition of megalomania is fueled by inner hatred, which is desperately seeking pacification by consuming more and more of a person's available love, but it fails entirely to deal with the root-cause of our mental illness, namely, unmet primitive needs.

from 'The machine in our heads'- thankyou ATS member pai mei

anyway, i am speaking broadly but from home grown experiences and new sychronicities...
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