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They mapped the stars and the moon... and we call them cavemen?

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posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:00 AM
Guys, religion is a joke. Believing the Earth was created 6OOO years ago is a hardcore christian myth, or that some guy wandered in the desert 15 centuries ago...We gotta evolve, look around us, and stop looking inside of us for the answer, which is exaclty above us, all the time...the stars.

Remember that the civilizations who left a mark in history were the ones who discovered huge stuff about space. Aztecs, Dogons, ancient Chinese...we gotta move forward instead of relying upon books written by phonies.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:06 AM
reply to post by MattMulder


Well said, sir, well said!

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 09:53 AM

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Well, they did live in caves. If you are referring to the connotation that they were awful-looking and smelly (enough to make a giraffe puke Indian food into a the used diaper of a baby skunk), then you are correct. Smart, ugly, and smelly is possible. Interesting thread. I will change my thinking. Ugly and smelly people can be smart too.

They did not live in the caves where they found the paintings, they assume they were used for special occasions and maybe special people. Some of the paintings are in almost impossible places. They did not build not build scaffoldings around that time.

Most of the stuff found from these periods is found in caves, so it is simple logic to assume to lived there, but as said in most cases they did not. Indians in New mexico area lived in cliff dwellings, and that is not to long ago. There is still a lot to find out about our history.

I visited the Lascaux caves (only permitted to visit the replica off course). Is is a impressive site.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Pjotr]

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Kandinsky
These guys weren't painting the images in total darkness...think about could they? They used torches to see in the darkness. They had expert woodcraft knowledge and would know which wood gives off the least smoke. Juniper ash has been found...

I was reffering to the fact that no natural light would have permeated the places these paintings were taken place. Of course I was not stating they did them without the aid of torches. I was illustarting how hard it was for them the travel to, find, crawl through and take their equipment and palettes, risk attack by bears, and complete the most advanced artistic works of the time in darkness where you couldant see your hand infront of your face. Some have suggested the images were made as they were in order to become animated in the flickering torchlight. This is very tenous though and takes no account for artists trying to explain altered states.

Originally posted by Kandinsky'Altered states of conscious' were probable. Humans have a tradition of using psychotropics going back thousands of years and modern isolated tribes continue he practice. The question you need to ask, is how could hallucinations provide advances in science? Improving stone tools or hunting methods would come from trial and error.

Not just probable but highly likely. Aside from the running themes that I already mentioned that continue to be reported, albiet in a slightly differant form to this very day. There are also these to consider...

The depictions of people dancing in circular formation. Many reports of fairies, timeslips, alien abduction mention beings dancing in circles to create a vortex and manipulate space time.

The shamens who created these images themselves used to do ritualistic dances for many hours until they entered...altered states of consciousness.

Or how about another running theme of these cave paintings? Children and babies being taken and or swapped with the beings depicted in flying craft. Nearly every single UFO abduction case has this theme.

Note the first versions of Santa Claus in the Pagen lineage used to....
steal normal human babies and replace them with goblins....what else about Farther Christmas.? How does he enter a house? Through a portal. Why is his suit red and white? Fly agarics produce altered states. How does he travel? How would a person from thosands of years ago describe a flying craft?

To your other point it is clear that around 35,000 something happened to humanity that was seriously important, an accelleration that could not have been brought about by incrimental technology changes.

Why exactly do altered states = explosions of info? Because you reach contact with those that know all. So many abduction stories are there that describe aliens or interdimensional beings as teachers. stories of information being downloaded into brains and books that held the answer to everything.

Originally posted by KandinskyHand prints like the ones you link are found across Europe and Africa and look that way due to the means of creation. The artist would chew ochre and ash until he had a mouthful of red 'paint.' Then he would blow it across his hand and create the shapes you see. Resourceful fellas...and their breath after this must have smelled wonderful

I know how they are made. The question is why are they made. If you want to believe people for whom everyday survival was a constant job spent so much energy on these thing because they were like infants at playschool, then be my guest. Or you could look at all the connective points and put them together and come up with a perfectly reasonable explaination... as long as you are willing to open your mind.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 11:31 AM
reply to post by MattMulder

The bible is all astro-shamanic-theology. Thinking it was written by phonies is a slight to yourself and the authors.

The secret was hidden from you within fables, hit the books and the cipher will light up like a arrow pointing to heaven.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 11:57 AM
Why is anyone so surprised? Caveman as a derogatory term is only in the minds of those who use it as such. Stars would have been very important to hunter-gather's, for navigation if nothing else, and they wouldn't have had the light pollution we do. Where they as smart as us? That's the wrong question, I'd ask where they as cognitive as us? To that I think the answer is obviously yes, or we'd never have been born.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 12:47 PM
reply to post by SolarDeity

Thankyou very much for the links.
It's absolutely worth reading.


posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 02:31 PM
Well, let's see how smart the "cave men" were.

They did not produce global warming.

They used materials that were eco-friendly.

They left little if anything behind for us to clean up after.

They did not impose their beliefs on us with large buildings.

They did not destroy the environment before we arrived on scene.

They kept their opinions to themselves, and did not write them down to make us wrest over their opinions and beliefs.

They did not leave a "paper trail" or freeways or polluted oceans and rivers.

Yea, they were the stupid ones. We're so smart. They were primitive cave people. We're so avante guarde.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 02:54 PM
reply to post by 2theC

I'm thinking that we called them "Cave Men" simply because they lived in caves. The artwork was adorning their livingroom walls, wasn't it?

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 03:23 PM
reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar

Thing is, they were nomadic. They probably didn't, or very rarely livied in caves. It seems to represent more or a religious type endeavor with the art.

I remember a archeologist who remarked how powerful it was, to him, to see where a fellow had thousands of years ago marked his hand print on a wall in a cave that is now submerged.
He said it was just so incredible to see something that very clearly said "I was here!" in a cave that hadn't been touch by us for so long.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by MattMulder

Religion a joke? Well, let's see. Here's a photo of earth:

Do you suppose that you might know less than 5% of all the knowledge in the world, considering that much of it may be in foreign languages? Would you consider that, in the 95%+ that you do not know, there may be evidence for a God? If there is a God, and if He made the entire universe, do you think that any modifications to Earth would be a problem for Him? Do you think, just maybe, He could have made this world with the ability to believe, scientifically, either it is 6000 years old or billions of years old? If so, wouldn't he be giving you a choice to believe Him, when He says it's 6000 years old, or to not believe Him? After all, if all the scientific evidence said it was 6000 years old, you would not have a choice to believe or disbelieve---it would be evident.

Why would He give you a choice? Let's see what He says: (Deut 13) "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

Additionally, the New Testament does not say science opposes Christianity. It says quite the opposite. It says the science is falsely claimed to oppose Christianity (I Ti 6:20). Of course, there are over a thousand scientists risking their jobs to say they don't believe in the theory of evolution.

Taking the above quote from Deut, let's see how that breaks down to our modern times:

    First, a prophet gives you a sign or wonder. That would be like a person in authority giving you a wonderful new fact, with the accompanying phrase about how it supports his prophecy or theory.
    Two, the wonderful new fact is supported by more scientific research, just like the scientist said it would be.
    Three, the wonderful new fact that is supported causes you to leave your belief in God and to follow after another belief.

Sounds like a perfect fit, to me.

Let's see what is "Gods rebuttal" that will help to support the Christian on his way to believing in God. In John 1:3, we see that Jesus made all things. Therefore, we can conclude that He created the heavens and the earth. It would be safe to say that the creation would be a miracle, to you and me. Especially if it were in 6 days. Now, fast forward to the life of Jesus with us. In the New Testament, we see the first miracle in his earthly life is stated in scripture at John 2:11 was turning water into wine. Most scan over this as a cheap parlor trick, but to the Christian it is all-important. Let us compare the two "first" miracles -- one as God before the worlds were made, and one as one of us.

How many days did it take to create the worlds? Six
How many waterpots of water were turned to wine? Six
How were the worlds made, aged or new? Aged
How was the wine made, new or aged? Aged
What was the name of the town where the water was made into wine? Cana. What is the meaning of the term Cana? To create, build.

You can draw whatever conclusion you wish, but to a person of faith, this is more evidence that God did things just as He said. Luckily, He is not forcing us to believe it or do as He says. You have a choice. You can love God, or not. If you love Him, you will do what He says, and you will believe Him.

You don't have to follow after the teachings of men. Many are out for the money, indirectly, and many are doing good works from a charitable heart. I do not judge them for their deeds, God takes care of that. But to the unbeliever, it is a myriad of labyrinths to pass through if they are not well-read (without someone interpreting for them). I suggest you read the KJV bible and not the others. It is the most accurate, and does not include the anti-Christian doctrines of the Gnostics as do most other Bible versions. For example, the Catholic bible and the NIV include the Gnostics scriptures, the Alexandrian texts, which even the New Testament authors stated were in opposition to the Christians.

Take care, see you on ATS.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 03:55 PM
reply to post by Jim Scott

I've always thought along those exact same lines. I often wonder what people 10,000 ahead of us will say about the way we crapped all over nature and the Earth. (I mean figuratively...well I guess literally too!).

Will they be tearing down our buildings made of concrete and steel and trying to figure out what to do with all the crap we left behind?

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 04:42 PM
I weep. Why does ATS always descend to 'my god's bigger than your god/scientist/looney fantasy'? Who cares? How about we look at facts and stop attributing random stuff to various books that no one had ever heard of at the time these cave painting's were made because they hadn't been written by then? Religion is important for many people in their lives but it says absolutely nothing about things that existed thousands of years before the current brand was invented/imparted/recieved from God/sold to us by the powers that be.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:29 PM
reply to post by 2theC

These so called 'cavemen' were more in balance with the Universe and with Mother Nature then our generation is.

They knew more about certain things in the Cosmos then we do. With simple tools they left us such beauty.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:53 PM
reply to post by Melyanna Tengwesta

Yep, and you try living the way they did. The beauty drops off as quick as the charge on an iPhone. These people had hard lives. Yes, they created beautiful art, humans do, but don't mistake art for an easy life. We wouldn't last 10 minutes in their world, just as they would freak out at ours.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:32 PM
the more i read the thread and the more i think about the subject and far removed we are from these ancestors the more i think about the plight of the first people of where i was born.

The first Australians were about the closest we can get to these ancestors. They lived this life, some right up until the late 60's early seventies here.
BUT we have destroyed them. These people, around 300 distinct language groups, were living the same way the people of Lascuax were 15,000 years ago. They painted in caves and engraved on rocks their stories and laws and that is what we have left.
But they are still here. The trouble is in most cases we have cut their link to their ancestors in about 200 years since we ( the "civilised") invaded the land.
It was mostly intentional.

We forced them to stop their traditional ways in most cases, to speak english. We introduced rum, flour and sugar, interupting their diet and drove them away from their lands. Now we make them paint their art for city people to buy and hang in their opulent homes.
We didn't take the time to see what hey had to offer us and we pay the consequence.

Sure we said sorry, officially, but still we ( in Australia) don't seem to be able to accept that they can teach us more about our place than we could ever possibly find out ourselves in our own bumbling way. Because they have the knowledge, the wisdom and the understanding of our natural and spiritual world where we live.

If you knew what i was told at school and in the street about these people , when i was young, it would make you sick.

It wasn't until I worked with these people (with, not for) that I felt in small way the deep connection they have with , not only the natural, but the spiritual environment.
In tangible, physical knowledge of plants and animals and weather and rocks etc and in signs and dreams and thoughts and stories.

We have deliberately corrupted our fellow humans here, and have accepted our ignorance of their ways, as a negative on their part for 200 years.

and the fact that this french woman has through years of research come up with a theory that throws "caveman" back at us for re-examination and can't convince her fellow scientists that we have acquired our knowledge from them, to me stinks. (Then they close the cave, like thats' enough now, your getting to close for comfort)

It is like the collective "EGO" of the civilized world could be damaged to accept this as fact.

The second step, which is now on the horizon, is megalomania, a severe pathological state of consciousness in which the steady withdrawal of love from others and nature gives rise to the deluded mental condition of exalted self-importance. The megalomaniac feels more and more powerful, euphoric, and in control of things (due to an abnormally inflated self-love), while in reality s/he is becoming more and more isolated, impotent, and out of control (due to an excessive loss of love for others and nature). This pathological condition of megalomania is fueled by inner hatred, which is desperately seeking pacification by consuming more and more of a person's available love, but it fails entirely to deal with the root-cause of our mental illness, namely, unmet primitive needs.

from 'The machine in our heads'- thankyou ATS member pai mei

anyway, i am speaking broadly but from home grown experiences and new sychronicities...

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:45 PM
A couple of questions here.
Did the Cavemen exist before Adam and Eve?
Or were they descendants of Adam and Eve?

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:51 PM
reply to post by HeluvaStorm

were they Adam and Eve ?

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:39 PM
The artwork is called the Magdalenian system that was named after a group of people at that time in europe. It's extremelly beautiful for sure, I had a look of the Aboriginies cave and rock wall art and that was good to, but had it's own style apart from the european one. This link will explain the cave work alot better. But for the most part I agree with some of you that ingenuity didn't just spout out 5,000 years ago and then we have a linear timeline of "history". Man and woman where just as smart and clever back then as they may be know. It takes alot to survive in a world where your competeing with large beasts that some don't even exist today. I truly believe either on purpose and/or by accident that we are a people that have forgotten our true history on this planet.

I truly believe that we are the survivors (could have happened many times before) of a disaster that happened a quarter of an epoch ago. And I think when it comes out finally we are going to be shocked at what our true history is. What was the disaster, don't know. But I have seen to many things that point to a culture that has been around alot longer than 5,000 BC.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:40 PM
Sorry here's the link:

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