For all the glories of your gunfree society you do seem to have a LOT more trouble with violent/criminal youths in the U.K.

The U.S. has violence, tis true. But our problems are typically limited to certain inner city environments and ethnic groups.

We do not have roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas, and gangs of troublemaking white boys harrassing people are so rare as to be non-consequential. So rare as I can't even fathom such a thing happening and would certainly never worry about it (and I read lots of news reports and am quite aware of violent crime).

If you have a deprived youth that have never had to earn anything themselves, and have never been beaten or punished for cruel behaviour. If they are uneducated and unable to feel empathy. If their psychic selves (the main guiding force in our lives) have been cut off through chemicals, propaganda and magic. If they have a social group that re-enforces that behaviour and role models that villify it ( this is partly Americas fault, with the introduction of mainstream illuminatist gansta rap. then you will have the same problem as us. No big mystery.

Until we learn or enforce responsibility this will be the case. Mind you, I would rather have to threaten a chav now and again than worry about some disturbed person going on a shooting rampage ( I did say you would end up looking stupid if you persisted in this line of questioning).

Thats it with a lot of Americans who are meant to be above this #. They always have their blinkers on. Yeah, you're guns will save you... not the most powerful force in the universe...love.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
You'd be 100% correct

But how much different is it here in our country?

why single the poor brits out?

You're right up to a point. The big difference is that here in Blighty when a chav causes trouble you give them a belt, get arrested and are released the next day. In America when a chav causes trouble you give them a belt, they draw a gun a kill you, you get taken to the morgue and the next day your family cry over your coffin. . .
The reason we're in this trouble over here with kids losing sense of all reality and believing they are above the law is because the government stopped parents chastising their children. When I was growing up my father kept us in line and if I stepped over that line then he would make sure I didn't do it again. Now if a father even threatens their kids they call childline and the parent is arrested and the child immediately gets taken into care.

Originally posted by Sonya610
For all the glories of your gunfree society you do seem to have a LOT more trouble with violent/criminal youths in the U.K.

The U.S. has violence, tis true. But our problems are typically limited to certain inner city environments and ethnic groups.

We do not have roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas, and gangs of troublemaking white boys harrassing people are so rare as to be non-consequential. So rare as I can't even fathom such a thing happening and would certainly never worry about it (and I read lots of news reports and am quite aware of violent crime).

Not really, no. We have pockets of it.

I've come across you Sonya610 on a couple of different threads, and each time your comments on the subjects are gernerally negative and assuming.

We do not have "roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas" we have some in some areas. Like in the US you have idiots that kill people for wearing the wrong colours, but do I assume eveywhere in America is like that, no. Not just because I've been there, but because I understand what you see on TV or read in the newspapers is a small reflection of the full image, that has been manipulated by the media to boost rating or sell papers.

Do you own a passport?

How many countries have you been?



[edit on 16-6-2009 by dsm1664]

I am living in a small middle england town, the young men and women and children are mostly polite, not heard of any drug problem, doe's not seem to be much crime, never seen any stop and search no muggings that I know off.
As for men with balls, the courts are only too willing to remove them, as any man who has gone through a devorce will tell you.
The french, they have a written constitution, wherein it states they have the RIGHT to build barricades! so they do!
Englishmen have NO written rights, Magna carta was for the nobles, not the surfs, the armed forces and police pledge allegeance to the crown, not 'the constitution', ever since 1066, the descendants of William the bastard [as he was known] have ground down the anglo-saxons, jutes, etc.

Originally posted by dsm1664
I've come across you Sonya610 on a couple of different threads, and each time your comments on the subjects are gernerally negative and assuming.

We do not have "roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas" we have some in some areas.

Do you own a passport?

How many countries have you been?

Well it seems like there are an awful lot of anecdotal stories involving chavs from ATS members everytime the subject comes up.

And yes I have a passport. I have visited Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Britian, Mexico, Canada, and Iran.

BTW countries don't mean much if you are in Western Europe and count surrounding countries, you can cross countries the way we cross states.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Sonya610]

MinT basically pointed out the problem. The separtation of youth from their elders is a serious problem and it is well orchestrated by The Agenda.
Countries like Italy, Greece and others have a system whereby teenagers and young adults interact a great deal more with their elders than in England. Thus the passage of knowledge and the respect of it is broken. Where most countries nurture the connection England has no natural setting for them to interact.

This might explain how youth movements were so strong in England from even the 1950s. And why they stem from a lack of relativity with other genarations.

See how a rift was forced between even children and parents in Nazi Germany? History again repeats itself. Just in a more subtle form.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Majestic23]

Originally posted by dsm1664

Originally posted by Sonya610
For all the glories of your gunfree society you do seem to have a LOT more trouble with violent/criminal youths in the U.K.

The U.S. has violence, tis true. But our problems are typically limited to certain inner city environments and ethnic groups.

We do not have roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas, and gangs of troublemaking white boys harrassing people are so rare as to be non-consequential. So rare as I can't even fathom such a thing happening and would certainly never worry about it (and I read lots of news reports and am quite aware of violent crime).

Not really, no. We have pockets of it.

I've come across you Sonya610 on a couple of different threads, and each time your comments on the subjects are gernerally negative and assuming.

We do not have "roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas" we have some in some areas. Like in the US you have idiots that kill people for wearing the wrong colours, but do I assume eveywhere in America is like that, no. Not just because I've been there, but because I understand what you see on TV or read in the newspapers is a small reflection of the full image, that has been manipulated by the media to boost rating or sell papers.

Do you own a passport?

How many countries have you been?



[edit on 16-6-2009 by dsm1664]

What about all the violence we see from the states. where does all the material come for the gangster Rap,Gangster movies and programes like The Wire. Then you have kids going into schools carrying out mass shootings.
It's quite rare for a shooting here in the UK.

Furthermore it was Americans who brought forward the trend where it was anathema to damage a childs self esteem in any ( not only physically but mentally and in the emotional sense ) by telling them off.

Furthermore it was Americans who brought forward the trend where it was anathema to damage a childs self esteem in any ( not only physically but mentally and in the emotional sense ) by telling them off.

There seems to be a misunderstanding from American forummers as to what constitutes a 'Chav'.

It is true that in Britain there is an underclass, created partly as a result of Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher's Tory policies of the 70s i.e. "there's no such thing as society" and the depletion of primary and secondary British Industry, leaving many working class families in the midlands and the north without money and food but most crucially without hope, prospects and aspirations.

However, the 'chav' is just a buzzword perpatrated by the tabloid media in order for there to be an easily identifiable 'enemy' to blame for societies ills.

Chavs are not affiliated with each other. They do not have chapters, or even leaders. They do not attend a Chav AGM once a year. It is merely a coverall word for people who dress in european sportswear; 'Lacoste, Fila, Umbro' which has been a popular dress-code since the football casuals scene of the late 80s.

Lots of people who dress like that are no harm to anyone. I personally know many middle class kids who have adopted the fashion sense and are no trouble at all.

The Chav phoenomena has always existed in some form in modern Britain, from the mods and rockers fighting on Brighton Beach on the 60s, the skinheads in the 70s and the football hooligans in the 80s.

Please do not use a tabloid created label purely for scapegoating and villifying as evidence of feral children running Blighty to its knees. Obviously these people do exist but mainly in inner-cities as most, if not all, countries in the world.

P.S My bollocks are firmly intact, cheers.

Originally posted by Sonya610
We do not have roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas, and gangs of troublemaking white boys harrassing people are so rare as to be non-consequential. So rare as I can't even fathom such a thing happening and would certainly never worry about it (and I read lots of news reports and am quite aware of violent crime).

I've lived in England all my life and am still waiting to see these roving bands of teenagers. You make it sound like we have gangs marching up and down every street. That is simply not the case. We get a news story a few times a year where a "roving band of teenagers" has attacked or even killed someone. But is it really any different from the US.

Originally posted by Sonya610
For all the glories of your gunfree society you do seem to have a LOT more trouble with violent/criminal youths in the U.K.

The U.S. has violence, tis true. But our problems are typically limited to certain inner city environments and ethnic groups.

We do not have roving bands of teenagers causing havoc in most areas, and gangs of troublemaking white boys harrassing people are so rare as to be non-consequential. So rare as I can't even fathom such a thing happening and would certainly never worry about it (and I read lots of news reports and am quite aware of violent crime).

Well let me put it this way.

To be caught up in a gang of roving band of teenagers is rare. That would imply that you would have to be wandering around a park at 3am, or staggering home from work drunk at midnight through a rather rough estate. Most of the so called terrifying 'Chavs' are bored teenagers looking for banter and / or trouble.

If you think fast, or make light of a situation then you'll be fine. Our nutty kids may act stupid, but behind that casual demeanour lies a bright spark who wouldn't want to risk the consequences.... THEY KNOW CCTV EXISTS, they know that a LOT of crimes are soon rectified by the law (as imperfect as it is)>

Gang stabbings are truly that. One gang stabbing another. Stay out of gangs.......

NOW the real problem lies with psychopaths or mentally ill people who stab random strangers. Ultimately because we have gun control, we only seem to get one victim. As tragic as that is, at least wider scale distaster is avoided.

Now if as you Americans say.... Us Brits should have guns. Then those lone stabbings would ultimately become a reflection of you own Columbine massacres. We don't want that here...

Britains on a whole are somewhere between liberalism and conservatism, but we are tolerable to a great degree.... UNTIL it starts to offend us. We are currently caught up in a state of confusion. Nothing more and nothing less. We will not take out the government en masse, because that is the style of yahoo's and cowboys.

There is nothing worse than an outcry from British values. We may look tolerable, kind, happy, and accepting (and we are), but Ye Gods.... Try and take away what is really ours and problems will arise.

To understand Britain you would have to live here. To see the exaggeration of our media, our comedy, our unique perspective of the world and ultimately the fact that we are defiant against anything slightly unsettling.

Trust not your media, and trust me.... Nothing is worse in the UK than it was in the 80's and 70's.

Just exaggeration.

We're a race of tough, intelligent and crafty people. We may be going through a bad spell, but it will pass...

if your trying to imply that british men have failed to stand up for their liberties then i suppose you could call yourself a hypocrite. everyone is losing rights rite now, and you have just as much balls as our neighbor across the ocean. What a terrible way to express your insecurities.

First of all, I am speaking as a proud English citizen.

The reason why the cops don't do a lot is because one little scrape on the finger and the criminals start shourting Human Rights abuses! Its a lose lose situation for the poor buggers of our boys in blue.

What we need to do is to get out of the EU, and go back to the 60's 70' 80's style of policeing where the cops would charge right in and get the criminals using any force nessesary.

As to our currant Prime Minister.... well........

What should happen is that Ol' Lizzie should dissolve Parliment and rule directly as she can do if there is a good and valid reason and the people demand it. Failing that, we should demand elections and have a protest upon protest uuntill we get what we want.

As stated I see a LOT of talk about chavs here on ATS. Now yall are saying I am reading tabloids? Nope, no tabloids, just reading the discussions and articles posted here.

Where did gansta rap come from? LOL. Tis a mystery, watch the videos and you will figure it out. As stated bands/gangs of white boys are virtually unheard of here. A lot of Americans don't have a problem with youths at all, but I live in a very "diverse" area which means they are an issue here.


Now Gangster/Mafia movies are mostly romanticized for entertainment purposes. Americans love dramatic and violent entertainment and it is better to have interesting Italian characters than realistic inner city thugs for the majority of our viewing audience. I don't find anything amusing about gold grill wearing Atlanta thugs, and do not wish to watch movies about them (though it is a popular genre here).

Maybe that still goes on in NY and NJ but I have never in my life come in contact with Mafia types. They may be out there running drugs or gambling operations or whatever but they are pretty discrete.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
As stated I see a LOT of talk about chavs here on ATS. Now yall are saying I am reading tabloids? Nope, no tabloids, just reading the discussions and articles posted here.
[edit on 16-6-2009 by Sonya610]

No, what i mean is that the concept of 'chav' was invented by the tabloids over here. As such it became appropriated as part of our every day language (because people love a snappy, discriminatory title) and is then used by British people on websites such as this, which is in turn read by people in other countries, for example yourself, and then repeated in a discussion such as this without a full cultural/contextual understanding of the word and its connotations, as is evidenced by your understanding of chavs as roving gangs of white lads.

Originally posted by CRB86... without a full cultural/contextual understanding of the word and its connotations, as is evidenced by your understanding of chavs as roving gangs of white lads.

Wait now. I have always thought of chav's as thuggish youths that get off on appearing tough and apparently often harrassing people as they see fit. Whether they are official "gangs" or not is another story. I brought up the "white lads" part because so often the Brits are soooo careful to describe chavs as white/asian/black etc...

I consider the word "chav" to be like our word "thug". A lowlife that likes to appear unsavory, and one that is more likely to commit crimes. They take pleasure in that appearance and glorify that lifestyle. If I am wrong then correct me? And if I am wrong then don't single ME out for being wrong if that term is commonly used in YOUR country that way.

Your chavs are often depicted as running in groups, picking on individuals because they outnumber them. Is that another misconception? Here thugs don't have to do that, they can easily rob and harrass people in small numbers probably because of firearms.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Sonya610]