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Is Jesus' promise of eternal life indicative of reincarnation?

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posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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The question I pose is this:

Is it possible that when Jesus speaks of receiving the gift of eternal life by living according to his teachings, it insinuates that reincarnation is a fact of life?

My answer is I believe so and this is how I came to that conclusion:

The idea that reincarnation was not a teaching of Jesus is debatable.

First, the bases for my argument assumes that being granted eternal life means never having to die. According to Jesus, the only way to be granted such a gift is to live according to his teachings.

I think that it is an entirely different debate when considering whether or not salvation is through Christ (merely believing he is God (debatable) or that he died for our sins (debatable)) or whether salvation is attained through the TEACHINGS OF Christ (debatable). So I'd like to keep the discussion within the realms of assuming that salvation (attaining eternal life) is attained through the TEACHINGS of Christ. (But this is ATS, right? I shouldn't expect that the discussion will stay within those confines).

Couldn't an interpretation being granted eternal life be that you will never have to reincarnate again, therefore have to through the process of dying (because to live is to die, right?).

People who believe in reincarnation believe it is in order to continue to learn lessons by going through different types of lives that have certain lessons to be learned that you didn't learn in your past life.

So, couldn't it be possible that if, throughout all the lives you incarnated in, you finally learned your lessons (lived by the teachings of Christ) and therefore, you are no longer required to reincarnate again, therefore, you never have to die again.

Because Jesus said that only by living by his teachings will you have eternal life and to go against his teachings is punishable by death.

If you think about it, you would have to believe in reincarnation in order to believe in eternal life as a gift from God. It would be assuming a whole heck of a lot that every single person on this earth learned all the lessons they were supposed to in one single life time. (Unless you believe the soul does not survive after the body dies (debatable) or that you even have a soul at all (debatable)).

Jesus said the punishment is death. What a horrible thing to have died only to find out you didn't "do it right" and are sent back to live another life, possibly several lives, before you receive the gift of being able to live eternally in soul form (the purest form of life). And if you are an evil soul then you will receive eternal punishment (have to die over and over and over again for eternity).

Of course, you may have the option of reincarnating even if you have attoned for you "sins" (mistakes) and received the gift of eternal life, but maybe you decided you want to help out those who are incarnate in the physical life.

Epiphany while writing this: Maybe Jesus was a soul who chose to incarnate in the physical realm so that he may teach us what we need to learn to gain eternal life. But he had to have a particularly gruesome death so people would heed his words more?

Ever wonder why some people who are severely disabled or have a horrible life only be an extremely wise and noble person? Maybe it is that people are most likely to acknowledge you if these things are applied to your life. Would we have paid as much attention to Jesus and his teachings had he not have died a brutal death? I doubt it because the Buddha said many of the same things Jesus did but westerners don't pay much attention to him. He was just some guy who said some pretty wise things (that should be no brainers).

Note: I don't consider myself a Christian (please don't attack me for that or try to convert me). My theory is based on the belief Christians have that the bible is true and factual. When trying to pose questions to people of the Christian faith I find it is better for everyone if you use teachings from the bible to base your claims on since that's pretty much what they always refer back to for their arguments.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by nunya13]




posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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He taught, somewhere in scripture (can't find it at the moment), that we would come before the white throne of God, and, if we "bore fruit" God would say to us, "well done you good and faithful servant! I see that you can be trusted in little things. Therefore now I will give you even greater things to do." This would imply a scale or a hiearchy of reincarnation, and that there are rewards for a job well done from one life to the next. Life meets life and death does not have the last word and cannot envelope life, in fact there is no death, since there is nothing that is not.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


No, Jesus' promise of eternal life doesn't equate to reincarnation. It is an eternal life with God after death. Hebrews 9.27 also says:


And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,


reply to post by OmegaPoint
 

You're thinking of his parables such as in Matthew 25. This also isn't referring to reincarnation but the responsibilities that believers will receive in the Millenium Kingdom, based on their service in the world today.

 

Something that I just thought of, it's interesting that throughout the Old Testament, God refers to himself as the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob". This is often done as "at the moment" I am. This is interesting because, if they were reincarnated, God couldn't continue to be, at the moment, Abraham's God. Abraham must still exist.

Coupled with this, is the story of Job. Job's children all died. At the end of his ordeal, God gave him double what he had before. It says that same with children, but, he only got 10 children, which isn't really double. But, when you think about it, it's correct that he only got 10 children because his previous 10 are still around, in the afterlife.

Thirdly, when David's son died, he expected to go and see him when he died. Now, apart from Jesus, David was probably the closest person to the Father. If reincarnation was true, God would've surely revealed that to David so that he wouldn't have any unreasonable hope to go and see his son again.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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I think it's a function of whether you are a conservative fundamentalist literalist or not.

All the NDE stories would indicate that this is a valid phenomenon, and that the standard by which a life is judged, is love, which is entirely congruent with the cross of Jesus Christ as a standard of judgement who's heart is mercy.

Perhaps the true Christians, become the teachers, the light beings who help these people at death, to learn their lesson, and if needed, pursuade them to return for another round in order to realize God's plan for them and for the world.

Either way, we retain our individuality our uniqye beingness that makes us, us, and, life continues, in one form or another. But there's no doubt that one of those forms involves reincarnation. There's no denying all the evidence.

I'm a Christian, but I'm also a rational, scientifically minded person with an open mind. One thing I like about the NDE reports, is the lack of a HARSH judgement, and of souls being flung into hell..



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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I can't help but wonder in my small way that death as an inevitability is simply due to our behavior or merely this experience. Truly, if you consider the soul / God / self as eternal, you cannot accept an end. If there is no end, then here we are in the "garden" but for some reason we get to experience it through separation and discord. If any sort of God is real, and I personally believe that to be the case then long term separation would not be acceptable.

We might be allowed as spiritual "young adults" to "move out" for awhile. Still being aware possibly of that small voice of the Father. Then like many 20 somethings move back closer to home at some point. IDK.
Thanks for the thread!



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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I would think it means something closer to the liberation from the re-incarnation cycle. I think eternal life in this case means living fully as part of God, not separated in the material and never to return to it.

The idea that death is not inevitable holds some sway with me. Its interesting to note that some people in the Bible were said to have lived for hundreds of years ( echoes of Taoist immortals aswell ). I find it interesting that some people who have contacted the afterlife and the Jahavoss Witnesses believe in the new world, everyone grows forwards or backwards until they reach a state that seems to be in the thirties.

This has numerous implications, it would seem DNA holds the "perfect template" for our bodies at peak somewhere. Or maybe the contaminations and blockages to our subtle energy forces die out.

They say you can like for weeks without food, days without water, seconds without blood...but you cannot live a single moment without qi.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Majestic23]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


You asked :
Is it possible that when Jesus speaks of receiving the gift of eternal life by living according to his teachings, it insinuates that reincarnation is a fact of life?

I'm not in any way a Bible scholar, but I have always felt the following was the best New Testament indication of reincarnation -


Mark 10:13-14, KJV

And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Source : scriptureText.com



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
I would think it means something closer to the liberation from the re-incarnation cycle. I think eternal life in this case means living fully as part of God, not separated in the material and never to return to it.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by Majestic23]


Yes, you said it much simpler than I could. I seem to have that problem (to my bosses dismay. I can always see the "just get to the point" look on her face. hehe)

I've heard (or rather read somewhere. Don't have a clue where) that some souls actually miss the physical realm because of the sensations and pleasures you get from it. Could these be the "sins" of the flesh?

They say that by simply becoming part of the physical realm you are automatically separated from God. The veil is put over your eyes and you forget where you came from.

Once again, this is perfectly in line with what the bible says. According to God and Jesus, Hell is a place in which you are no longer in God's grace. He can no longer see you. Essentially, you are in the dark. Could it be that the fire and brimstone referred to about Hell is actually just a metaphor for Earth's core where there is nothing but molten lava and fire?

Please note that when I speak of God, I don't really mean him or her, or that God is even a person that can be perceived. When I speak of God, I speak of the force in the Universe from whence EVERYTHING came. Because we ALL came from the same place that is an undeniable fact in religion AND science.

When I speak of Jesus I speak of the bible's Jesus who, whether he was a person who actually lived or not, had some pretty amazing things to say. Things that, I believe if we all actually put into action, this world would in fact be a spectacular place to live in.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by nunya13
 


No, Jesus' promise of eternal life doesn't equate to reincarnation. It is an eternal life with God after death.



Then how can you receive a punishment of death if, after you die, God decides you didn't do well enough and so you will have to die? Even if you go to Hell (according to the bible) you still live eternally, albeit in damnation, but you don't go there to die. You go there to be tormented. You'll wish for death but it will not come.

I will need to find the source I read this from, but it was explained that when the bible speaks of the sins of the father being bestowed upon the son, it indicated reincarnation. Something about the Hebrew terms for "father" and "son" were taken out of context or mistranslated and that it was really the sins from your past life will be bestowed upon you in the next.

Like I said, I will try to find the source.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13
I seem to have that problem (to my bosses dismay. I can always see the "just get to the point" look on her face. hehe)


I say take the scenic route and we will probably see something cool on the way!


Originally posted by nunya13I've heard (or rather read somewhere. Don't have a clue where) that some souls actually miss the physical realm because of the sensations and pleasures you get from it. Could these be the "sins" of the flesh?


Hmmm, this seems likely. Also maybe the souls come here to learn and gain experience. Jesus said that when you go and see God, you must have many robes. This idea of robes might have meant past lives.

But in equations to sins of the flesh it is interesting to note the Bible's interpretation of the fall of angels who came here to get with hot human babes. One would think that without any body parts and the abilty to manifest reality at the speed of thought we could get on for a while without trying to get our end away, not so apparently. I guess sex would not really work without the primal need to procreate.


Originally posted by nunya13
Once again, this is perfectly in line with what the bible says. According to God and Jesus, Hell is a place in which you are no longer in God's grace. He can no longer see you. Essentially, you are in the dark. Could it be that the fire and brimstone referred to about Hell is actually just a metaphor for Earth's core where there is nothing but molten lava and fire?


Personally I think the fire and brimstone of Hell is discriptive of the feeling of being without the light of god. But the real world idea you put forward would also make some sense.


Originally posted by nunya13Please note that when I speak of God, I don't really mean him or her, or that God is even a person that can be perceived. When I speak of God, I speak of the force in the Universe from whence EVERYTHING came. Because we ALL came from the same place that is an undeniable fact in religion AND science.

When I speak of Jesus I speak of the bible's Jesus who, whether he was a person who actually lived or not, had some pretty amazing things to say. Things that, I believe if we all actually put into action, this world would in fact be a spectacular place to live in.


Nobody can argue with this point of view. I think once we get this into our heads we are going to start to make some progress. I think Jesus the same as any other enlightened being in contact with their higher self/god. Maybe we can all attain the things Jesus was said to do.




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