It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Female vigilante 'led drugs raid on illegal immigrant home' where girl and father were shot dead

page: 4
5
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:17 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


I have read all your posts, it doesnt change that what you are saying is fundamentaly flawed. Having a vigilante group doing the rounds, is actualy going to NEGATIVELY affect the situation in a number of ways.
First and most obvious:
Recriminations. Drug cartels are of course scum. They are brutal, savage, heartless, and cruel. If this group gets to be enough of a problem, they will be found, in a heap , on fire in the middle of a patch of the most godforsaken dessert you can imagine having been killed in thier own homes along with anyone else who was home at the time. I have no doubt that the civillian (noncombatant) casualty rate , will be horrific in such a confrontation.
Second and slightly more disgusting:
The government (and by association the CIA) may start to think "Well hey , all them tough folks down on the border dont need our help so much , well thats just swell , now we dont even need to worry about being slapped for our lazyness!"
And third and probably the most horrid truth :
The only reason your border is so damned open is because the CIA like it that way, because it makes it easier for them to conduct nasty little black ops training missions, smuggle the drugs that THEY sell to the american tax payer, and thereby earn the money that pays for the things they cant afford by skimming the taxes themselves.
Baring all that in mind, the fact that some very poor people get bought up to sell drugs, and find a market in the US , seems a little less of a scandal than the fact that the underhanded bastards running the Security of the US at the moment , are the ones enjoying the benifits of the illegal trades in both america and parts of mexico and south america.




posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Divinorumus
 





I think it hypocritical to blame the push of drugs and not the customers that create that demand. There would be not war on drugs if not for the demand created by the junkies. I'd rather be known as a pusher than a junkie! Junkies are worse than pushers. Put the blame for this war on drugs where it belongs .. upon those that WANT drugs!


I'm glad we agree at some level!


I don't feel like porn and drugs are equal, but I do agree that the customers (demand) create the environment, and that junkies are far more dangerous than most dealers!

The drug "War" that people speak of come from the highly organized cartels that kill rival pushers. They kill witnesses, they strongarm and intimidate their way into neighborhoods, and they are particularly violent and cruel. People associated with these movements must be stopped immediately before they get a foothold. Unfortunately, a lot of Mexico's problems are crossing the border with the illegals. There are cartel wars going on in Miami and Southern California where Mexican cartels are moving into Columbian or Dominican territories.

Most intelligent Americans do not blame the hard-working illegal immigrants that just want to better their own lives. The jobs they are accused of "stealing" would sit unfilled if they did not do them. The turkey and chicken plants, the farm laborers, the construction laborers, those industries are begging for more employees, and they could not function without the immigrants.

As I said earlier. I hope this incident does not become centered around Nationality or Race. If this is a case of a private citizen taking responsibility for cleaning up their own neighborhood, I say great! If this is a hate-crime against illegal immigrants, then I hope the lady fries for what she did!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:07 PM
link   
I am surprised by some of the responses in this thread. There are some that seem to believe that in order to "defend" America extreme measures must be taken. However the measures that some of you support mean the elimination of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution.

How can you support means to justify the end when the means them selves would destroy your Country? What good is an effort to save your Country when it will destroy it in the process.

I think at some point we need to start figuring out solutions to the causes of our problems and not the effects.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:14 PM
link   
reply to post by harvib
 


I think we are just glad to see some Action! It would be much easier if the government did their job at securing the borders in the first place, fixed education and healthcare, and stopped bankrupting the states by extending benefits to illegals!

Since we know the government is inept at fixing anything, it is nice to see some organizations of citizens taking over. The case stated here is a sad one, and may prove to be an unfortunate side-effect of overzealous, or even racist attitudes, but the established police forces often have those same issues, so this case is no different.

The only constitutional right I see that would be bent a little is the right to a fair and speedy jury trial. As long as the citizens are acting with due diligence and getting the correct perpetrators, I can live with bending that right. I am also fully aware that the new government uses the Patriot Act to sidestep the right, so it is no longer a valid argument anyway!

[edit on 15-6-2009 by getreadyalready]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:34 PM
link   
reply to post by getreadyalready
 





The only constitutional right I see that would be bent a little is the right to a fair and speedy jury trial.


Then you fail to understand the rights that you hold that must be defended above all other issues including the immigration problem. To support such "action" would be to support the destruction of the Bill of Rights. Please don't proclaim how you demand action to defend your Country when that action destroys it.




I am also fully aware that the new government uses the Patriot Act to sidestep the right, so it is no longer a valid argument anyway!


Because certain rights of yours have been removed and/or restricted does not mean that an argument to defend our remaining rights is invalid.


Because the same misguided logic used in the "terrorism" problem has resulted in loss of your rights doesn't mean you have to continue to support such logic until you have nothing left.




Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. -- Winston Churchill



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by harvib
 


Well, I certainly agree that we should not go down the slippery slope of destroying even more rights in the name of defending them!

At the same time, I would also hate to derail any movements within the populace that have the potential of taking back control of our government and giving it to the people where it belongs.

Therefore, I say we don't condemn the actions of this lady's organization. We give them support for doing an extremely difficult job in the face of criticism and possible prosecution. This one incident may turn out to be a black eye to the movement, but hopefully they are overcoming the inertia of inaction, and we will see some positive results as things roll forward!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:54 PM
link   
Let me start by saying if she is guilty of what she is accused of, she should suffer the full penalty of the law.

That being said, a part of me wonders if this is actually a red flag operation, or if she is a plant, to discredit the over all Minuteman movement?

The government has never felt comfortable with the Minutemen and I wonder if they are attempting to lessen the Minutemen's wider support by indirectly accusing them of having nutjob murderers in their ranks, there by causing guilt by association in the eyes of the public....

Just my .02



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by getreadyalready
 





At the same time, I would also hate to derail any movements within the populace that have the potential of taking back control of our government and giving it to the people where it belongs.


This "movement" is aimed at immigrants it has zero chance of taking anything back from any Government.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I absolutely agree Masonwatcher. This neocon hate mantra is something that should be stopped. I see it as akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. It's time to force news networks and radio personalities to answer for trying to show opinion as facts especially when they are spewing hate.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 02:32 PM
link   
Has anyone heard of a vigilante home invasion and murder of a white English speaking family?..... Can anyone see any difference in or how similar the attack on this family is to a drug lord wiping out competition, but using the vigilante label as justification for robbery and murder?..... Maybe not, but the outcome is very much the same..... Where are the drugs and money?



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 02:40 PM
link   
reply to post by hypervigilant
 


YES! There was a thread last week about a white guy wanted for questioning in a child sex abuse case. He was beaten by an angry mob. And (to hurt my own argument) he turned out to not be a suspect!

But, he was a normal white guy that was targeted by vigilantes.

I can't speak for everyone, obviously. But race, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, or favorite color would have nothing to do with my actions in protecting my neighborhood from thugs or gangs!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 02:59 PM
link   
Drug traffing will not stop because some profoundly evil people( the ones who want to turn us all into slaves )benefit from drug trafficking. Most of what is illegal now should be legal under certain conditions. Instead the drugs are being used to put young people in prison or in graves. I sincerly hope the family was not involved in one of the most evil trades the world has ever seen. It is inexcusable to kill or hurt children...



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:08 PM
link   
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Was he in his own home when this happened? Were the people there to rob and kill him and his family?.... I think there is hardly any comparison, except that he was unjustly punished by other than the legal system without due process.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:15 PM
link   
reply to post by hypervigilant
 


He was either in his home, or just outside of his home. I don't know if he had a family, and the mob was certainly not bringing him flowers, of course they were there to hurt him!

I may be arguing a losing battle here; my point is that it isn't necessarily racist groups that carry out vigilante justice. Most times it is just an angry group of average citizens that can't get justice any other way.

I am not excusing the murder of the little girl in the OP article, but I am still saying not to paint all citizen vigilante groups with the same broad brush as the hate groups, nazis, and racists.

It is about time that citizens took back the power and responsibility from the government, and there may be some unfortunate growing pains, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by hypervigilant
Has anyone heard of a vigilante home invasion and murder of a white English speaking family?..... Can anyone see any difference in or how similar the attack on this family is to a drug lord wiping out competition, but using the vigilante label as justification for robbery and murder?..... Maybe not, but the outcome is very much the same..... Where are the drugs and money?


If you are not white or you have never been poor, I can see why you would believe white people have never suffered mob justice or mob injustice.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:31 PM
link   
reply to post by camain
 


Screw the law. The law has become a joke. It is as bad as religion. The reason people kill and murder is because we let governments control the masses. People shouldn't be told where they can and where they cant go. Where the hell does anybody earn the right to say, this is my territory. People do it on individual levels and with nations. When we become one mindset as a people there wont be laws. When will people be ready to make the next step in our evolution?

I have seen things from the universes perspective. We are a fuzzing joke in the universe because of descriptions we make up like illegal immigration.

Your not free as long as you believe in the things that control us. Like religion, money, and governments. and that fuzzing mass media.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:33 PM
link   
reply to post by eradown
 


Yeah, the number of beneficial illegal drugs is so high that its obvious people are being led like sheep. Only because people think that these drugs are bad for you.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 03:45 PM
link   
reply to post by eradown
 


I am as Nordic as a person can be, raised in Oak Cliff, no billed twice by grand juries in Dallas for doing bodily harm to two different groups of three on two different occasions and two different minority groups. I was in the Marine Corps and saw racial tension erupt into a lot of dead and injured people in Okinawa after 12 1/2 months of humping a radio and directing air strikes near Laos(and in) and the DMZ.... I have been both prosperous living in a house without a mortgage in an up scale gated resort community and owned 2 more as rental income and 2 retail businesses..... I have lived in the barrio and the hood..... I am now on disability, at the mercy of the VA for medical care, living in a corrupt county between two rivers where the post oak prairie and piney woods are joined in the same state as you.... I can truly say that I am from both sides of the tracks and have known injustice and seen it as it pertains to everyone of all races and social status.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 04:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by stevedel0
reply to post by eradown
 


Yeah, the number of beneficial illegal drugs is so high that its obvious people are being led like sheep. Only because people think that these drugs are bad for you.


Heroin has been traditionally used to treat several chronic life threatening diseases. The eugenecists are okay with letting those people suffer and die. I can see why people are angry at the thought of a healthy teenager being given heroin. We should go back to the pre 1900 veiw of drugs. Snake oil sales men never equaled the evil committed by the fda and illegal drug dealers



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 04:26 PM
link   
what if the 9yr old had a AK? none of us know

what if the father of the 9yr old shot the 9yr old? none of us know

what if the "cops" were actually undercover CIA-ish group? none of us know

what if the father was a ruthless drug dealer? none of us know

what if all of this is 100% made up? none of us know

i am amazed at how fast people are to condemn others and foam at the mouth with hate when No One knows what happened. Or if it even happened at all.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join