Is Access to Health Care a Basic Human Right?

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posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Health care is a commodity.

It is a service that must be paid for.

It is not a right. How could it be?

No one has a 'right' to any commodity.



Conversation over. Next subject please...




posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Selective reading of posts??? I'm am not advocating 'free' health care! I'm advocating affordable health care, which we do not have. (Again, refer to last post on on page 5). Equal access means that it is affordable to all citizens, not just those with the 'good' jobs. We need landscapers just as much as we need factory workers. We need restaurant workers just as much as we need law enforcement officers. And all workers should have access to quality affordable health care. And just in case you are under the delusion that we have such a thing, ask your server about his/her health care plan next time you go out to eat. I'll bet that their current health care plan is to not get sick or injured!

On this issue, the Left just happens to be correct. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day!

[edit on 15-6-2009 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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I honestly don't believe it matters if you can afford it or not. You should be able to receive health care.

One poster tried to liken a right to health care to the right to be educated and drive nice cars. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

People have the right to health care because they have the RIGHT TO LIVE!

Are some of you saying that if someone is dying of heart disease you would say, "Well sorry sir, you don't have the right to live because you can't afford it"? How many people, including kids, have died of cancer or some disease because they couldn't afford the OUTRAGEOUS cost it would take to keep them alive? Way too many if you ask me.

Essentially, in the long run, that is giving society the impression that if you have money to spend you have more of a right to live than others do.

Also, in regard to congressmen/women and senators having health care, they have PUBLIC HEALTH CARE that WE pay for! So how is it right that they have access to a publicly funded health care but some of them are telling us we don't have that right? They say that people shouldn't foot the bill for other people's health care, but they have no problem with us footing the bill for THEIR health care. They also receive some of the best health care in the nation and get to see top notch doctors.

An example of the health care they get:

The health care lawmakers get




North Carolina's delegation in the U.S. House of Representatives recently split along party lines over President Bush's veto of the expanded State Children's Health Insurance Program called SCHIP, and the veto was upheld.



NORTH CAROLINA'S 13 U.S. REPRESENTATIVES AND TWO U.S. SENATORS have access to the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, containing some of the best and most comprehensive health-care plans in the nation. They pay premiums, but the federal government (read taxpayers) subsidizes 72 percent to 75 percent of the cost of their health plans.

An example of an older senator's premium for both him and his wife: $290 a month.



And government-provided and government-subsidized health coverage for members of Congress doesn't stop there. In the Capitol, there is a physician's office with 13 top doctors and other health professionals ready to serve the needs of any member. This is a luxury not available to most North Carolinians -- even those lucky enough to have affordable health insurance at work.


Here's an idea...Why don't we pull funding for their health care plans in order to cut some costs in the budget. Then we'll see how they feel about tax payer funded health care and whether it makes sense or not. They will have to start paying full cost for the same kind of high-end medical care that they receive courtesy of the tax payers (the one's they don't believe deserve that kind of care).

How does it make any sense that a persons tax dollars go to fund government employee health care but they don't have the right to the same level of care unless they come up with the money themselves? Someone please tell me...



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
Proper health care is a right. It's easy to say it's not if you have good insurance.


I don't have ANY insurance right now. i still dont believe that any other American should pay for me.



Originally posted by David9176
It's easy to say it's not if you DON'T have a father like me who is undergoing treatment for cancer which he could not do otherwise without medicare.

Does he NOT have the right to live?


Do you not understand that medicare, and medicaid are some of the hleathcare issues that will be completely redone under the Universal healthcare?

Already the Obama administration has voted that the GOVERNMENT, and not the doctors should be the one to say what sort of treatment older people should have....

Your father, like my parents, will be greatly affected by these Universal healthcare reforms which will screw up any American over 55 years old...

[edit on 15-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Already the Obama administration has voted that the GOVERNMENT, and not the doctors should be the one to say what sort of treatment older people should have....


Really??? You have a source for this??? It is not what I've read and heard from the current Administration. And when did the Executive Branch get a vote? I was under the impression that only the Legislative Branch voted! When did we change the Constitution???



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Older Americans have worked all their lives, and part of their right is to continue to have some coverage under medicare, and medicaid, yet under the current administration, and because of the made up economic crisis, these are some of the people that will be the most affected by the so called "healthcare reforms".



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Reply to no one in particular:

The PTB have a handle on soooo many things in life for us. They can draft our sons to battle, they tax us to pay for what they think is "good" for us. They flouradate our water, for our "health".

They make laws against consumption of natural growing plants, tell us smoking tobacco is one of the most vile things one can do. Yet polute the air and environment with glee.

The LEAST they can do is make health care free, I mean, they are SO concerned about our health, right??



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Move to Europe. We have human rights and apply them. Everybody has health care here.

What is so great about America? So many basic things are missing in America, it is such a backward place really.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by zorkthegreat]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 

Don't worry you'll never get old sick and die. It won't happen to you! :LOL:

Single Payer would also provide for the elderly, including long term care, without causing them to go bankrupt.

Most people don't find out how bad their insurance is until they get sick. Then you move into "preexisting condition" status.
Then guess what...no insurance available! Do you know why?????? Because you're sick!


You can't get "healthcare" because you're sick!!! Makes good sense eh?



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Great point. You should not have to pay for anybody elses kids education.


Then I shouldn't have to pay the taxes that go toward providing health care to government employees if they won't do the same for me.

The reason everyone is required to pay taxes for education whether or not they have children is because society is only as great as the education it provides. Just like everyone pays taxes for using the roads, all of society benefits from people being educated.

Every time you go to a doctor, lawyer, small business, etc. you are being provided a service that only would have come from someone having access to education when they were a child.

If we start underfunding things like education and health care then we have a society full of stupid sick people who cannot adequately contribute to society.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I'm not sticking up for Obama or government run health care. I'm saying SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE!

The health system is broken. Has medicare helped drive up costs...YES. But so has greedy ass CEO's and countless lawsuits against them. Fraud is never prosecuted and there is no accountability anywhere.

The majority of politicians are bought by the health insurance companies. They shouldn't be a profitable business..but not being profitable does not mean the government should run it.

Government and big business are the causes of the symptoms. Nothing will be done right until the scumbag politicians are off of the big business dole.

I hope people realize that most politicians are nothing but mouthpieces to promote big business objectives.

Has NAFTA been benefited you? Nope...who did it benefit? The greedy ass CEO's and their stockholders.

Everything should be small IMO....if it's too big to fail...then it should be too big to exist.

That goes for government and business as well.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Really??? You have a source for this??? It is not what I've read and heard from the current Administration. And when did the Executive Branch get a vote? I was under the impression that only the Legislative Branch voted! When did we change the Constitution???


Oh boy, where have some people been hiding in recent months?...



The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not meaningful users of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

www.bloomberg.com...


You do know also that the current President, Obama has ordered certain CEOs to resign, and has stated what sort of cars should private companies build? Not to mention that the largest auto company is now NATIONALIZED.... This is what America has become under the current administration...

[edit on 15-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


MADE UP ECONOMIC CRISIS???? So the double digit unemployment numbers are just a lie??? The stock market didn't really dive down below 6,000??? GM and Chrysler really didn't declare bankruptcy and close plants and layoff tens of thousands of workers??? Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch didn't really go down the tubes??? Bernie Madoff is really a fictional character??? WOW, those crafty Democrats are far sneakier than I thought they were!!!

[/sarcasm]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Ah, and forgot to add a very important part.



Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Oh, a bill!! Well, that was proposed by Democrats in CONGRESS. Just because they are in the same party does not make congressional democrats part of the Administration. Really, do we need to conduct a civics lesson here??? And until it's law, it's going to see a buttload of changes. [/panties=wad]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Health care is a commodity.

It is a service that must be paid for.

It is not a right. How could it be?

No one has a 'right' to any commodity.



The right to live is a commodity?

That's new to me. Guess the abortion issue is off the table now. Case closed...



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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So, if you are poor, and you get sick... you don't get treatment? Or you do and end up with massive debt? Is that the case?

Excuse my ignorance, but I assumed that the US would have a decent system.


In a nutshell, yes. The USA has a GREAT system. You, and your employer, pay large quantities of money in insurance. When you make a claim against this insurance you need to pay a deductible (usually quite a lot of money) before the insurance company will start paying any of the money you paid in to them (cuts down their profits, and the stock market frowns). If it's a large amount, the insurance company will look very deep into your past to see if there are any pre-existing conditions that might exclude you. They hire people specifically to find dirt on people to avoid paying claims. If you do claim, then you become a liability and your premiums are increased. Winners? Yes. The insurance companies.

No job? No money? You're screwed. It's going to take you years to pay off any medical bill you incur.

The poor are the great unwashed, and the less we talk about them the better. Those living under the poverty line and starving (yes, in the USA - amazing, isn't it!?) are just a "problem" that nobody wants. If they are poor, you see, it's because they are lazy/fat/stupid, and therefore "NOT MY PROBLEM".

I'd like to think people cared about other people, but it's really not the case.
It's okay though, here in the USA the people are not living as long as in other countries with national health care, so they won't be a problem/burden for too long.

Those against free health-care seem to think that they would be denied having access to a private health-care scheme. Not true. They could still pay the high premiums and go to private clinics. Many of these same people seem to think that socialized medicine is a one way ticket to Communism. Yeah, I know. It's quite funny. Polarized politics does this. There are lots of talking heads on the right wing "news" channels that will tell them that Socialism = Communism, Universal Health-Care = Socialism, and therefore Socialized Health-Care = Communism.

The insurance companies are to blame for the failure of health care in America. That and the legal system (note that I didn't say "Justice System" because we don't have one of those). Contingency law, and frivolous lawsuits by the ambulance chasers helps to keep those insurance premiums high, and thus keeping the costs of health-care artificially high. Liability insurance is one of the biggest expenses that doctors face (that and paying off their medical school loans).

Pull out the yellow pages and scan the pages and pages of doctors in your area. Now narrow it down to "General Practitioners". Wow, did that list get small. Community medicine is a dirty word in some circles. No money in it, you see. Better to be a "Sports related elbow injury specialist" and charge the big bucks (because it's sports related, see? The insurance companies won't touch it!).

Is health-care a right? I'd have to say no. However the USA cannot stand up and claim to be a truly civilized nation unless it does something to care for its own people. All of them. We the people (except for the poor).......
I guess the press isn't so good as when you're sending aid to other countries. That way you can claim to be helping the needy, and the world's press extols the generosity of the American people.
All about perception. The USA wants the world to see it as the guiding light of righteousness, and wealth. That people are dying of starvation and illness in the USA is something they don't want the world to see. They're not that[/] generous.

Medicine in the USA is a means toward wealth. It's not about helping the sick.
You silly....



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Made up economic crisis, as in the fact that the Feds knew full well that an economy based on paper, and backed not by gold, silver or any other precious metal, or resources, but backed by empty promises would sooner or later fall. They wanted this clearly because they wanted to change America, hence Emmanuel Tahm, Hillary Clinton, and such stating that they couldn't let pass a GOOD CRISIS, and now they can do things that would have never been possible before...

BTW, you should keep yourself informed as to what is being discussed in the forums, before you start implying people don't know what they are talking about...



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Well, if Daschle said it, it must be absolutely true! He doesn't have any political bias, now does he???

Meanwhile, the American Medical Association, you know, DOCTORS, are supporting health care reform. Source. I trust the opinion of those on the front lines of health care far more than I trust any politician, regardless of party affiliation.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I hate to break it to you, but the Right was in power and brought about the current economic crisis through deregulation. I suggest a study of American history, 1929-present.





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