Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

Spoken like someone who has never dealt with a pencil pushing administrator in a HMO, or insurance company! WHAT'S THE FRAKKIN' DIFFERENCE?? I mean other than the government is at least answerable to the people....

The government answerable to the people? When and where did I miss something? Last time I checked they just keep shoving anything they want down our throats.

If you can't tell the difference then there is no need to even continue this debate. The government are the ones that have legislated our way into this mess, and you want to them to "fix" what they themselves created?

Come back to reality. You're living in fantasy land.

All I can say for those who want Universal Health Care is you are dreaming a sweet dream. You better call on the UNIVERSE TO PAY FOR IT because this government is so frigging deep in debt all of our creditors are running away already scared. The FED is buying US treasuries because no one else is buying enough for crying out loud.

This means that the free money train is coming off the dang rails. They raise personal income taxes we will be even more broke then we are now. They raise taxes just on the rich. The Rich will move the heck out of here and take their money with them. The same with corporate taxes. Microsoft has said if the president's plan is put into place they will likely move off shore.

The largest industries are running out of the US because of short sighted socialist stupidity run rampid. You can not socialize a rich nation and expect it to remain rich. These fairyland ideas will come to their own end and the amount of suffering we all do will be dependent on how long it takes us all to wake up.

The exact opposite is what needs to happen. Instead of socialist bailouts those institutions need to fail. The people who caused the failure need to be sued by their share holders. Instead of stupid short sighted stimulus packages that only profit the rich we should slash the government budget until it is balanced. We should cut everything that is not essential to operating the country. We should roll back every obligation we have made in the past until we can actually pay for those obligations.

We should repeal the personal income tax. Government should pay for itself with tariffs and duties. Whats left of it that is.

We live in an age of the greatest social integration we have ever experienced. Children can be educated in small community school houses and they should have open source educations using open source software.

The only thing we really need government for is to enforce the law and defend the nation. The law in fact should be greatly simplified and the military should stop policing the world. If what you do harms anyone you should be sued or be compelled to repay them. That should be the whole of the law. Common law and common sense should be practiced.

All government subsidies should end immediately and let the free market control prices for goods and services. The complexity and expense of the central government is a direct result of increasing demands by the people and mostly by special interest. Government must become greatly simplified.

Efficiency is bred of competition. Government through taxation has taken over services that would be far better accomplished by the competitive private for profit sector. This includes of course health care. Health care should be greatly reformed. The first reform should be to end medicare and medicade. They should be replaced by services provided by charitable institutions.

Since we have in this concept model ended the income tax people will have more money for helping good causes. Those causes will receive more money because Americans care about the suffering of others and are willing to help out their fellow man. They do not need to be forced at gun point to help others believe it or not.

Taxes are tyranny. Forced taking of money from one party and giving it to another has always been theft. If the government does it they call it taxes.

In this internet connected age we can do far better at providing services with voluntary participation in distributed cooperative systems than we can by sanctioned forced government collectivism. Look at open source software and other open source technology development efforts if you doubt this.

We need open source medical technology, open source education, and not government institutionalized greed and corruption of central by force collectivism that only profits the special interests.

Well that is all I have to say on this. They all tie together. Universal Health Care is just going to be the straw that breaks the camels back in my opinion. We really need to move the heck away from this socialist corporatist statist collectivist mentality. We need to be more personally responsible and individually sovereign in our lives not more centralist statist and government dependent. That dog just cant hunt.


[edit on 6/14/2009 by UFOTECH]

I would love Universal Healthcare as much as the next man. However this scheme proposed by the President is at the wrong time. People are about to be taxed to the gills and yet he wants another tax and spend policy to be approved as well.

Moreover, how are people going to pay for it because many of our people are out of work as it is. The squeeze on the middle class is getting tighter and tighter each passing day. Of course he probably thinks he is doing some good with the Universal Healthcare proposal of his, however, what he is doing right now can be considered callous and unsympathetic to the people that are struggling. In other words, free-healthcare isn't free and it must be payed for by you and I. His proposal is not practical given our current state of affairs economically. So I say: "Mr. President, stop spending so much of our damn money and give us a chance to catch our breath." Maybe in future it is do-able but now is not the time.

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Jakes51]

You know what a better question is.. not is health care a right, but what percentage of YOUR income are you willing to give up in taxes?

10%
20%
30%
40%
50%
60%
70%
80%
90%
100%