Is Access to Health Care a Basic Human Right?, page 3

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reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:42 PM by grapesofraft

I swear by the time Obama's done we will all be on here debating whether having McDonalds is a human right. I mean we do all love it and its delicious, should we really deny people their rights.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:51 PM by mikerussellus

If you're in your 20's, smoke pot, drive a Prius, and unemployed, then the Obama admin is just for you! They will provide everything because they will be taking it all from ME!

ps, you're welcome

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:52 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by grapesofraft

Well, he spent 30 seconds with my xray, so that means that he deserves $102,000.00 an hour due to his education! If he had charged me $50, that would be $6,000 an hour! So just what hourly wage do you think a doctor should make?????

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:55 PM by Hastobemoretolife

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

You're forgetting the cost of medical supplies, the staff he pays, he bills, his malpractice insurance, etc. then all of his personal expenses.

Did you know most doctors have tax liens?

Edit - spelling.

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:58 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by mikerussellus

Democracy and capitalism are two separate things. That's the problem. Everyone keeps lumping them together. It is quite possible to have a socialized Democracy. This is not the same as the socialized dictatorships seen in Communist countries such as North Korea, Cuba and the defunked Soviet Union. China is an example of a capitalized dictatorship, but only since the turnover of Hong Kong. Before that, it was in the previous category.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 08:59 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

No, that was just HIS bill, there was a separate bill for everything else. He listed it as a 'Consultation Fee'! He didn't get a dime! What he got was a letter berating him for the gaul of charging that kind of money for such a thing!

[edit on 14-6-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:03 PM by Hastobemoretolife

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Doctors have practices outside the hospital. Then the bureaucracy people not paying their bills, the government interference etc.

Don't blame the doctor, blame the government for killing competition.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:04 PM by grapesofraft

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

I think we live in a free market economy so as much as he can with his skills. He has to pay alll kind of expenses out of that money and if he made a mistake you are probably the type of person that would be first in line to sue him for a few million.

If you want a cheaper doctor maybe you should negotiate better pricing. A broken arm is not life threatening so you could have called around for pricing.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:07 PM by RipRap

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Healthcare is not a human right. Healthcare is a luxury.

Then instead of paying insurance every month stick some money away for when something bad happens to you.

What about those people without JOBS?
What about those people DYING from diseases?
What about those BORN with maladies that make them unable to work from birth?
What about if YOU get into a terrible accident, and it is YOUR fault, and you and 3 others YOU injured can no longer work and you used up all of the " money away for when something bad happens to you" ?

Is healthcare still a luxury?

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:10 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

Yeah, that's why the cars in the Doctor's parking lot are worth more than my house, government interference! How could I not see that!

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that doctors should be well compensated, but really, enough is enough! A hundred years ago, you could pay the doctor's bill with a couple of frakkin' chickens, now it's an arm and a leg plus your first born for three generations. If you don't see greed as a problem in modern society, then perhaps you are part of the problem.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:11 PM by mikerussellus

Originally posted by RipRap

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Healthcare is not a human right. Healthcare is a luxury.

Then instead of paying insurance every month stick some money away for when something bad happens to you.

What about those people without JOBS?
What about those people DYING from diseases?
What about those BORN with maladies that make them unable to work from birth?
What about if YOU get into a terrible accident, and it is YOUR fault, and you and 3 others YOU injured can no longer work and you used up all of the " money away for when something bad happens to you" ?

Is healthcare still a luxury?

yes

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:11 PM by nikiano

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Excellent, post, Jaxon. I agree with you, we call ourselves the most advanced and civilized society on earth, yet we let homeless people stay homeless because they cannot afford basic mental health care, and they cannot work full time (or even part time), so they can't get health insurance through jobs. So they get lost in the system and end up on the streets. Meanwhile, our congressmen and senators, who are promised healthcare for life, get healthcare in the best hospitals simply because they are congressmen and senators. Who made them better than everyone else?

Take for example, Senator Kennedy. If he was a regular guy, and came down with brain cancer, and missed as much work as he did, he would have most likely lost his job and his health care insurance by now. But they have it in their contracts that they get healthcare (good healthcare, too!) paid for by life.

Meanwhile, we have people declaring bankruptcy because they are not as lucky as their own senators and congressmen.

If we were smart, we would come together as a country, and say "we demand the same healthcare that all senators and congressmen have, and if we can't have it, you can't have it!!"

Yes, I think basic healthcare is a right. I think in a civilized society, if you get hit by a truck and you're dying on the road, you should get healthcare as a right. If you get pneumonia, you should get health care.

Does that mean that we should get free plastic surgery or free elective procedures? Of course, not. But basic, emergency, life-saving healthcare....yes.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:11 PM by Hastobemoretolife

Originally posted by RipRap

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Healthcare is not a human right. Healthcare is a luxury.

Then instead of paying insurance every month stick some money away for when something bad happens to you.

What about those people without JOBS?
What about those people DYING from diseases?
What about those BORN with maladies that make them unable to work from birth?
What about if YOU get into a terrible accident, and it is YOUR fault, and you and 3 others YOU injured can no longer work and you used up all of the " money away for when something bad happens to you" ?

Is healthcare still a luxury?

If the government runs health care the people dying from diseases will die because it's not "cost effective", children born with conditions leaving them unable to work will suffer because it's not "cost effective". Same thing with everything else.

with UHC you become a number or more accurately a burden on the government.

We need to teach people how to set broken bones and how to sew up wounds, and the like. People are too dependent on other people for things that they can do themselves.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:14 PM by whycantweknow

i'm with RipRap, i think people are still polarized without even talking politics....it's either they want to help someone or they think people are lazy and want everything for free... i'm willing to bet the latter also thinks those should be the rules for everyone else, except them, when it applies...
but to get down to brass tacks, i think a limited type of healthcare should be provided for those who pay taxes....i mean, we pay for everything else, why not get a kickback so we can live longer to continue to pay

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:15 PM by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

I think we live in a free market economy so as much as he can with his skills. He has to pay alll kind of expenses out of that money and if he made a mistake you are probably the type of person that would be first in line to sue him for a few million.

You don't know me, so you ass-u-me WAY too much. I feel we live in an overletigious society as well. Greedy people, greedy lawyers, etc. etc. etc. I am probably one of the least materialistic money-grubbing people around.

If you want a cheaper doctor maybe you should negotiate better pricing. A broken arm is not life threatening so you could have called around for pricing.

It was 7 pm, the pain was excruciating, so no, not really any choice but a trip to the ER. Hell, I was under the impression that's one of the reasons they are there. Again, silly me!

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:20 PM by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
If the government runs health care the people dying from diseases will die because it's not "cost effective", children born with conditions leaving them unable to work will suffer because it's not "cost effective". Same thing with everything else.

with UHC you become a number or more accurately a burden on the government.

We need to teach people how to set broken bones and how to sew up wounds, and the like. People are too dependent on other people for things that they can do themselves.

Spoken like someone who has never dealt with a pencil pushing administrator in a HMO, or insurance company! WHAT'S THE FRAKKIN' DIFFERENCE?? I mean other than the government is at least answerable to the people....

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:20 PM by mikerussellus

reply to post by nikiano

And who gets to pay for all this "free" healthcare?

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:25 PM by Tinman67

Healthcare is a luxury?? Are you kidding me?
Our workforce, the backbone of the economy depends on being healthy and being on the job. Folks have fallen for the biggest load of manure there is out there.
Healthcare is expensive because the providers have made it expensive. Malpractice insurance is expensive because providers mess up and because the insurance companies have their hands in all the pots.
Remember this, survival of the fittest is a great slogan to banner around, until you're not the fittest.

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:27 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by mikerussellus

The same people who pay for the 'free' education, and 'free' national defense, and 'free' public safety (fire, police, etc.), and 'free' infrastructure, etc. etc. etc.

OMG!!! I just realized we have 'socialized' defense, 'socialized' education, 'socialized' law enforcement and fire services....

WE'RE FRAKKIN' COMMUNISTS!!! WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN????

[/sarcasm]

reply posted on 14-6-2009 @ 09:49 PM by mikerussellus

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by mikerussellus

The same people who pay for the 'free' education, and 'free' national defense, and 'free' public safety (fire, police, etc.), and 'free' infrastructure, etc. etc. etc.

OMG!!! I just realized we have 'socialized' defense, 'socialized' education, 'socialized' law enforcement and fire services....

WE'RE FRAKKIN' COMMUNISTS!!! WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN????

[/sarcasm]

Our education system is shrinking, run by progressives who preach global warming, political correctness, and is turning our youth into a bunch of mindless clones.
National defense is being sold out to the highest bidder, when it's not being cut by political morons.
You forgot about the DMV, what a wonderful job they do. . .
How about the VA. They are already run by the government.
How about Amtrak? the government was only going to run that until it became profitable. That was 1970.
Public safety? We still have to pay for ambulances, pay extra for cops and fire (because they are always the first to go when governments go broke)

I wish we could get rid of all government services and let communities pay for protection and fire services.
It would be a great boost for private businesses. . .